Stihl 261s Scoring Pistons

[gspren]

Is there or would there be an advantage to the 261 without the C or CM? My 261 which I am quite fond of is the plain 261 without the computer. Also exactly what is "brushing" that's been mentioned several times?

[HolmenTree]

These saws aren't 4 strokes you can't expect them to get proper air cooling and lubrication at half throttle.
I think a 50cc saw is way too small for log building. A log builder I know up here only uses 372XP saws.

If you don't want to swing a 372 or 461 then get a Stihl electric plug in saw then you'll have some good slower rpm power with all the torque you need and not have to worry about burning up pistons  :D

[JaredR]

To the OP,  have you got an infrared temp gun?

Pistons transfering to jugs is entirely a temp thing and you should get in tune with that concept asap before cooking another.  Richen your mix, richen your screws, increase your cool down breaks by idling it flat on the floor periodically.  And beware the clutch bearing needs manual lubrication now and then.  It is engaged any time the chain isnt.

Thanks for the suggestions. I do have a IR gun, what temps should I be looking for and where on the saw?

Also exactly what is "brushing" that's been mentioned several times?

How to Notch a Log for Building a Log Home or Log Cabin Saddle Scribe Style 346xp - YouTube

These saws aren't 4 strokes you can't expect them to get proper air cooling and lubrication at half throttle.
I think a 50cc saw is way too small for log building. A log builder I know up here only uses 372XP saws.

If you don't want to swing a 372 or 461 then get a Stihl electric plug in saw then you'll have some good slower rpm power with all the torque you need and not have to worry about burning up pistons  :D

46 to 55cc is the recommended size for notching as it's easy to work with. This is the size recommended by pro log builders. I've actually strongly considered an electric one, but I hate cords and I don't think the battery ones are good enough. Yet. And log builders have been using saws for years.

[barbender]

I'm far from an expert, I built one log shell that I ended up not even using. This was my experience. A 50cc saw is a nice size for notching and cutting lateral grooves. I suppose it depends on how big of logs you are using. As far as brushing and that sort of thing, as I mentioned when I did it I would continually blip the throttle. Not much different than how I run a saw when I'm limbing, I don't know about the rest of you but I don't hold the throttle wide open and walk down the tree🤔😁 The bigger saws got used for ripping cuts and cutting out window and door openings.

[JaredR]

I'm far from an expert, I built one log shell that I ended up not even using. This was my experience. A 50cc saw is a nice size for notching and cutting lateral grooves. I suppose it depends on how big of logs you are using. As far as brushing and that sort of thing, as I mentioned when I did it I would continually blip the throttle. Not much different than how I run a saw when I'm limbing, I don't know about the rest of you but I don't hold the throttle wide open and walk down the tree🤔😁 The bigger saws got used for ripping cuts and cutting out window and door openings.

Same as our use. I guess we weren't blipping enough.  :D

[donbj]

Cmon @barbender ive been behaving this time.   Now if you dont know 100:1 is proven to save 1.3 polar bears per day youre an idiot!

Chainsaws,religion,politics, oil mix ratios. Now there's coffee shop talk!!

[btulloh]

Cmon @barbender ive been behaving this time.   Now if you dont know 100:1 is proven to save 1.3 polar bears per day youre an idiot!

Chainsaws,religion,politics, oil mix ratios. Now there's coffee shop talk!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[mike_belben]

I would buck a few rounds at WOT then measure wherever you can get the IR gun to repeatably and fast.  Be it the fins or muffler port.  The exhaust side of the piston always melts first.  

Anyway, get a baseline from "normal operation" and also see how much idle time it takes to shed say, 100F.  you can then quantify just how badly the saw performs while whittling your cabin logs.

This info may also help you in fighting stihl if needed.  I would video record it.

I think youre gonna need to open up these mufflers to get the temps down.  If sound waves reflect they cancel out so u can increase flow and expel heat without extra noise.  I cut a slit, bend it, then weld a little louver over it to make the exhaust change directions back at itself.  Works great.

[ladylake]

 
 I'd get a saw without auto tune and tune it rich.  Steve

[Spike60]

Well Jared; I can understand your frustration but you're veering away from asking for advice to venting your frustrations here at those who post replies that don't conform to your hoped for narrative that there is something wrong with those saws. You certainly don't want to hear that bad news from Stihl, but if you throw out a question like this you will undoubtedly get some answers you don't like. And it should be expected that the answers will vary widely. As you admit that you are kind of new to this yourself, you aren't in that strong of a position to judge those who give an answer you don't like as not knowing what they are talking about.

Everything about these saws lives under a microscope here on these sites. Granted, 100% of your saws have burned up. But that's just 2 saws. If there were any known issues with 261's failing that quickly it would be well publicized in these parts. Us Husky guys would love to be able to say that the 261 is junk, but it is a well received saw with a pretty solid reputation. (I know I just said something nice about Stihl, it must be the 95 degree heat. )

Ultimately, this needs to be hashed out at the dealer. Sounds like he is a decent dealer and Stihl does stand behind their products. You might not get the answer you want, but we all run into that now and again. Also, some newer saws may, and likely do, react differently to part throttle operation than older models. So, only similar experiences with 261's can be useful examples.

[gspren]

This past Saturday I went with a nephew to my local Stihl dealer who happens to be Amish and he only sells the non auto-tune, he was out of 261s and 660s, can't get them fast enough, I wonder if the plain 261 without auto-tune and set a bit rich would solve all your problems. I'm no mechanic but I would think maybe a manual adjustment might be better.

[lxskllr]

Had a bit of a scare with AK a month or so ago. I use their Stihl site to check specs on saws cause you gotta use something, and I figured I'd give them the hits for whatever that's worth. They were no longer listed! Searching Stihl's site they don't show up either. Had a job up that way, and I stopped in. He said it was news to him. He had a bunch of new stuff in front of the shop that just got delivered. Big relief! I was trying to figure out who I'd go to. Bought a couple rim sprockets, and I'm just happy he's still around.

[hedgerow]

This past Saturday I went with a nephew to my local Stihl dealer who happens to be Amish and he only sells the non auto-tune, he was out of 261s and 660s, can't get them fast enough, I wonder if the plain 261 without auto-tune and set a bit rich would solve all your problems. I'm no mechanic but I would think maybe a manual adjustment might be better.

You can still buy the non auto-tune saws from a dealer? When I asked last fall about a 660 they said they were no longer made. I know you can buy a knock off 660. 

[realzed]

Having a 261CM and knowing quite a few others who also do and use them in a wide variety of applications from hard and abusive forestry to babied home hobby uses, and all that I know of, loving their saws, I find it hard to believe the stories that make it sound here like there is an inherent problem with either the CM or older adjustable carb models.
I have always mixed my own saw fuel with the best gas I could find and Stihl synthetic oil at 40:1 and I've never had an issue figuring I was a bit OCD considering many I know only use whatever regular gas and no name regular oil, yet I have never heard any of them having issues either despite what I mentioned would be considered very hard and borderline abusive situations!
Makes you wonder if the recommended 50:1 ratio is somewhat suspect as some seem to allude to, how Stihl would react if someone told them their canned gas and oil - had the potential for owners burning up their own saw models?
Its too bad that someone with a connection to Stihl themselves wouldn't chime in and respond to what appears to be alarmist rumors regarding one person's bad experiences with the brand - as it tends to try and tarnish all of the probably millions of unheard of, reliable and durable saws and their stories of that model, that have served and continue to, their owners so well in all types of uses and situations..
Just Say'n..  

[mike_belben]

I can say from experience, many companies have a culture/policy of blaming the user for product failures to avoid recalling hundreds of thousands of them.  My father brother and i put in over 70 combined years at one very famous manufacturer and i had their product explode literally in my hands very painfully.  

We couldnt even get a replacement.  They always insist on you sending them back for "inspection" then send a canned response "evaluation" that it was your ammo or your fuel or your abuse, i knew the system and individuals well from the inside.  I was sometime the guy who crushed up the exploded guns, and i grew up with the guy who received them daily in the mail room.  Canned response guy was a lowlife dirtbag, that was his job.  Lie to defer blame.   They just want the evidence back so a 3rd party cant inspect it at a class action suit.  


What im saying is the dealers and the users will be a lot more honest with you then the manufacturers.  The dealers bread and butter is loyal nearby customers, not protecting the MFR.  The manufacture have a life and death (of their jobs) incentive to shift the blame to end user and denying fault, like the insurance industry.   Just keep it in mind, this is any mfr.  Im not hating on stihl corporate. 

Anyone who got caught being honest about this stuff online always got fired and yes the mfr's follow employee social media.

[Old saw fixer]

     This thread put a hitch in my step on my journey towards an MS261CM.  I've sorted out a few dealers to check with,  but none are real local.  Last week I went to the dermatologist (the sun isn't that good for you, lol) but after wearing a mask for about two hours I was done with it.  After the dermatologist I stopped by Costco and remembered I left the cold pak at home.
     I will check the dealers I was referred to on a later trip. 
     I will keep an eye on this thread, too.

[gspren]

    This thread put a hitch in my step on my journey towards an MS261CM.  I've sorted out a few dealers to check with,  but none are real local.  Last week I went to the dermatologist (the sun isn't that good for you, lol) but after wearing a mask for about two hours I was done with it.  After the dermatologist I stopped by Costco and remembered I left the cold pak at home.
    I will check the dealers I was referred to on a later trip.  
    I will keep an eye on this thread, too.

There are quite a few of us on here that have 261s and this is the first I've heard of a problem and this one is being used differently than most so if your use is "normal" cutting I wouldn't be concerned.

[Spike60]

This is exactly the problem that realzed was talking about above, and it's unfortunate. One guy has an issue with a particular model and people often adopt an unfounded "they all do it" fear about it. They shy away from buying one or begin wondering when their own saw is going to blow up. Like I said earlier, if there were any serious problems with 261's, it would be a well known fact here and on other saw sites.

[realzed]

AND Spike - long, long before now!

[Old saw fixer]

     I don't have a fear that "they all do it".  I am trying to find a Stihl dealer I can depend on.  The price out the door isn't that important since as a new customer I am not apt to get a deal.  It's the skill level in the shop that is my biggest concern, especially with newer developments like the M-Tronic engine controls. 

     I can fix the darn saw, I have no doubt.  I have the mechanical aptitude and tools I need.  I just don't have access to the "technology" any more. 
 

[realzed]

So what do you do when you need to have a new car or truck?  
The situation is pretty much to a degree the same with any mechanical device these days - as in most everything you purchase doesn't give you much of any choice but to have to default to the manufacturer's specific repair depot for fixes or adjustments and that won't change to help any of the 'Mr. Fixits' going forward..
It's the way things are destined to go if you want anything with a warranty or new for the most part, that will be easy and trouble free operation without a lot of fiddling, like most all of the new vehicles we all drive and use daily now.
But its not just limited to cars or trucks - its appliances, or home related heating and cooling devices, and virtually everything else that is being driven by microprocessors and the latest electronic systems that you need to be an electronic genius to figure out - let alone troubleshoot and repair.
We all like the conveniences that go along with it when everything works well and when it serves us well, but hate it when we don't have things operating the way they should or the way we are accustomed to having them run!
Welcome to the new age!  

[Real1shepherd]

So what do you do when you need to have a new car or truck?  
The situation is pretty much to a degree the same with any mechanical device these days - as in most everything you purchase doesn't give you much of any choice but to have to default to the manufacturer's specific repair depot for fixes or adjustments and that won't change to help any of the 'Mr. Fixits' going forward..
It's the way things are destined to go if you want anything with a warranty or new for the most part, that will be easy and trouble free operation without a lot of fiddling, like most all of the new vehicles we all drive and use daily now.
But its not just limited to cars or trucks - its appliances, or home related heating and cooling devices, and virtually everything else that is being driven by microprocessors and the latest electronic systems that you need to be an electronic genius to figure out - let alone troubleshoot and repair.
We all like the conveniences that go along with it when everything works well and when it serves us well, but hate it when we don't have things operating the way they should or the way we are accustomed to having them run!
Welcome to the new age!  

What you're looking for is longevity....at least similar to what were were used to once upon a time. That's the missing part. Companies have sold millennial's and gen z's that things only need to last five yrs......just out of warranty, it's OK if they die. They want to save the planet/eco system, yet they're forced into a throwaway mentality/society.

And if you're raised that way, you won't be trying to recycle old stuff by fixing everything. Let the millennial's and gen z's figure out how to hack the systems, so we can get in and repair the mechanical parts.

Kevin

[smoked]

You know, reading this and watching that brushing video makes me wonder if that is what happened to my old 025.  Rand great for years but all of the sudden, had no power and could not tune it no mater what.  I did not check the piston or have a compression tester.  Carb rebuild did not help so I sold it for parts.  figured I got my $300 out of it anyway after 25+ years  

Anyway, the last time I remember it running right was when I was roughing out some bowls...which is very similar to that brushing process.  I ended up buying one of those scary angle grinder attachments that run a 1/4 in saw chain.  They get it done and are a little easier to handle as long is you keep the right part of the circle engaged.

[Old saw fixer]

     realzed, I don't buy new cars or trucks.  My truck is a 1992 GMC K1500, my beater car is a 2003 Subaru Forester.  I think I am basically butt hurt because now I am a customer, instead of the guy in the back fixing pro saws, and buying new ones at cost.  Such is life, lol.  I like taking care of my stuff myself.

[realzed]

    realzed, I don't buy new cars or trucks.  My truck is a 1992 GMC K1500, my beater car is a 2003 Subaru Forester.  I think I am basically butt hurt because now I am a customer, instead of the guy in the back fixing pro saws, and buying new ones at cost.  Such is life, lol.  I like taking care of my stuff myself.

At some point obviously you will be stuck with technology that you won't have the tools or expertise to deal with well - its just a fact of automotive life (and probably that of chainsaws and other small equipment as well).. Unfortunately then you will have to either have to adapt to it or go without the improvements and upgrades that 'often' comes with that technology in those same tools or vehicles..  Its the way the World is evolving (some say not).. like it or not!