Stihl 261s Scoring Pistons

[Real1shepherd]

    realzed, I don't buy new cars or trucks.  My truck is a 1992 GMC K1500, my beater car is a 2003 Subaru Forester.  I think I am basically butt hurt because now I am a customer, instead of the guy in the back fixing pro saws, and buying new ones at cost.  Such is life, lol.  I like taking care of my stuff myself.

At some point obviously you will be stuck with technology that you won't have the tools or expertise to deal with well - its just a fact of automotive life (and probably that of chainsaws and other small equipment as well).. Unfortunately then you will have to either have to adapt to it or go without the improvements and upgrades that 'often' comes with that technology in those same tools or vehicles..  Its the way the World is evolving (some say not).. like it or not!

Or you can fix older stuff back to their prime and enjoy. I have enough old pro saws that I don't have to worry about failure on a job. So I take four "antique" saws to a job instead of two new ones....big deal. I only had one job ever where I had to go past the second saw and that was a fluke set of circumstances.

At some point you have to ask yourself; is the newer technology actually a better product and will it radically outperform my older stuff......

Kevin

[mike_belben]

The more advanced the technology, the more important it is to have your ownership be near the beginning rather than the end of the product's life cycle. 

[sawguy21]

Kevin, I like the older saws too as I can keep them going with a minimum of tools and newfangled technology. Trouble is, you would likely not be hired by a major contractor if you showed up with your 2100 but I don't know how the system works in your area. Do the mills hire logging contractors that sub out the falling or is it a bunch of small independents?

[Real1shepherd]

Kevin, I like the older saws too as I can keep them going with a minimum of tools and newfangled technology. Trouble is, you would likely not be hired by a major contractor if you showed up with your 2100 but I don't know how the system works in your area. Do the mills hire logging contractors that sub out the falling or is it a bunch of small independents?

These days I get involved in private timber tracks or remove problem trees. So I would be an independent providing my own gear, insurance & bonding. But then it gets twitchy when I move over to the next state and do work. One big customer there puts me on his payroll for insurance purposes......but I can't bring any help with me.....weird, but I assume legal.

WA is a nightmare of bureaucracy....especially in the timber business. These days, I try to stay clear of all that.  It's been decades since I worked for any of the big timber houses.....I can't speak for what that's like anymore.

If you Google timber contractors in the State of WA you get hundreds and hundreds of outfits besides the big houses. But that's everyone big and small.

The mills do work with contractors and those guys do sub out falling. There used to be a lot more of it when the IRS tolerated contract labor. Pretty much now you have to be at least a small business or work for a co. 

Kevin

[joe_indi]

Something else that came to mind. 
I may be wrong.
But my theory is fresh air stratified engines run lean at lower speed and exhaust stratified engines run rich at lower speeds. By lower I mean below full throttle. 
461s run at low rpms have high carbon and oil deposits, while as the few  fresh air stratified engines seem to have whitish spark plugs even with 25:1 oil mix . Well my exposure to both types are very limited. The 461 is the only exhaust stratified we have here while as I have seen fresh air stratified Huskies the 575 and their XTorq brushcutters, the Sthil 211, all seemed to be leaner than the usual two strokes, while as the 461 seems the 'dirtiest'

Well, I may be wrong, but I thought I would drop this into the current pot to stir up  :D

[Greenhighlander]

I can't comment on the half throttling other then to say it makes sense that 2 stroke engines are made to be wide open or idle not in between the two.   
I had a 261 with a scored piston and cylinder .  Was my first new saw that I had ever bought.  It lasted for roughly 20-30 cord .   After racking my brain on what could of caused it and certainly being no expert, I am convinced it was from running it completely out of gas each tank before refueling, while bucking up big yellow birch and sugar maple.  I did have it tested for  leaks that would of leaned it out and none were found. But running it dry each time sure made it lean out between the first sign of low fuel and actually running it dry. 

All that being said unless you are a small engine mechanic yourself the #1 thing when buying a saw in my opinion is dealer support. I have been using a 445 and an old 250 for my firewood since, but have now saved up enough for a new ms 261 and have found a dealer who isn't all sales. When they go on sale this fall I plan on buying an MS 261 C-M. 


"Companies have sold millennial's and gen z's that things only need to last five yrs......just out of warranty, it's OK if they die. They want to save the planet/eco system, yet they're forced into a throwaway mentality/society. "  

Just out of curiosity what age group do you think made it that way?   Pretty sure it wasn't millenials and gen Z running these companies.  

[Real1shepherd]

Just out of curiosity what age group do you think made it that way?   Pretty sure it wasn't millenials and gen Z running these companies.  

I'm certainly not gonna defend the P.T. Barnum's of my generation. But ask yourself how it got to be this way, because that's not how I remember it growing up when you took pride in buying major appliances and power saws/lawn/garden equipment. You expected them to last and they did with some maintenance.

But you have corporations like Apple worth two trillion dollars run by a despot who made sure your primary electronic devices were dated/throwaway after a few yrs. Same with Microsoft....who doesn't remember the push to buy or update your PC every few yrs?

All that trickled down along with price point Asian made goods....people demanded value above all and instant gratification without saving for anything.....and so here we are.

Millennial's and gen Z's aren't the monsters here, but they sure are the automatons.

Kevin

[Spike60]

Running a saw dry every time does essentially create a temporary air leak. Once that fuel filter is sucking in as much air as fuel it's little different than a hole in the fuel line, tear in the intake boot, etc. It can generate a failure code in an AT saw. IMO, doing this can be worse in the AT and CM saws as the carb will adjust the fuel settings and dump more fuel into the saw to compensate and try and keep the RPM's up. In this way it sort of prolongs lean running where an older saw will stall out quicker. Not only that, but when you fuel up the saw and go back to work the fuel settings are now out of whack and it needs some time to re-adjust itself.

[Greenhighlander]

Running a saw dry every time does essentially create a temporary air leak. Once that fuel filter is sucking in as much air as fuel it's little different than a hole in the fuel line, tear in the intake boot, etc. It can generate a failure code in an AT saw. IMO, doing this can be worse in the AT and CM saws as the carb will adjust the fuel settings and dump more fuel into the saw to compensate and try and keep the RPM's up. In this way it sort of prolongs lean running where an older saw will stall out quicker. Not only that, but when you fuel up the saw and go back to work the fuel settings are now out of whack and it needs some time to re-adjust itself.

Ya it really wasn't one of my finest hours. The worst thing is is that I did know better but somehow forgot. I seem to need to learn things the hard way sometimes . But hey that way I don't forget haha 
 I never go past the first sign of low fuel since and usually refuel even before that. 
I still have the saw and am hoping a fair amount of the parts may be usable on the new 261 CM .