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Skidding with a tractor

Started by livemusic, December 14, 2021, 07:23:16 PM

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livemusic

What is the easiest way for someone to skid logs with a tractor? I've never done it. But grew up on a farm driving tractors. In another thread I mentioned I have access to taking a number of hardwoods in the basin of a pond that a friend is building. I was going to just buck them and haul them out but I am concerned about winter rains setting in and degrading my access. I only have a 1/2 ton 2wd truck at this time. It's easy access now but it's dry. The pond is starting to fill but it is only runoff fill, there is no feeder stream. (Which I think is a design mistake!)

My idea is to skid them to a spot aside the access road/trail above the projected water line. I'm guessing that might be about a 200-300 yard skid. If I don't do something like this, it is going to take me awhile doing it by hand, chainsaw and a utility trailer! These are 12" to 36" oaks and hickory. I might get, say, 20 of them. Probably average 22 inches (1 cord per tree!) and the stems are straight and tall. Nice trees. (I have no idea how long a log you can skid with a tractor. Will need front end weight?)

I have not only been looking at used 4wd trucks but also tractors. And, this landowner has a tractor. Maybe he would let me use it, as I am doing him a favor. I think it is 40hp. I don't recall, maybe a Kubota. Other than that, I might buy a used tractor at any time, been looking at 40-50hp tractors.

I know there are Farmi winches and other options but what about something like this Norwood tractor attachment for skidding... but I am open to anything or any advice... I can do it the hard way if this skidding idea is problematic... here is the tool...

Norwood Log Skidder Tractor Attachment - Model Number 41255 Log Hog - Logs to Lumber
~~~
Bill

Woodfarmer

I have the Farmi 501, excellent winch.

 

TroyC

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I use a log arch and tongs on the three point hitch. Before the arch I'd drag out with tongs on one end but that leaves a groove in the ground and a real dirty log. You can haul a really long tree with the arch provided you don't have to make any turns in the woods. A grapple adds a lot of utility!

sublime68charger

if this is a 1 time thing for you and your on pretty flat ground it'll be fine.  Maybe the land owner with the tractor will due the skidding for you if your cutting the logs to length and you hook up a log and off he goes to the landing spot.  you can then be cutting the next log to length or breaking the top down into small enough parts to skid as well.  With 2 people you can get alot done in a day if you dont have to get on/off the tractor for ever hook and release.

Heck your 2wd truck could pull some of the smaller stuff if your on dry ground.  Just cut up some blocks and put in the back till you have some weight on it it.  Put truck in Low and just go slow and take it easy that is if its a work truck and not a pretty one.

thecfarm

A 3 pt winch is the easiest way, but those things do cost, but those things do last. I bought one back in 1993, have never put any parts in it. The sprocket is starting to show some wear.
We use to use a NAA Ford, a little bigger, than those 8 and 9n that are all over the place. Slow at one log at a time, but it gets the job done. We use to have to split a piece of the end of the log to get the butt off the ground, due to some of the trees being more than 2 feet across.

 

  
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

stavebuyer

If the land lays well and your clear cutting for a pond, I don't see the winch as a big deal. Winch mainly helps to get things you can't back up to. The tractor will pull as much or more without the added weight and length of the winch behind it. In your case getting the log off the ground with the Norwood type 3pt attachment or a log arch will help you more. If you plan on "tractor logging" longer term a winch is a must have but not really needed for the task at hand.

Rick Alger

That Norwood thing looks good, but  I would look into renting a skidder . Get it done in a day.

NE Woodburner

I pulled all my firewood out for ~25 years with something similar to the Norwood set up in your link. They work well but you do have to be able to back up to each log or pull them with a chain to any area you can back up to. I now have a winch, which makes things much more convenient. If this is a one time deal I would not buy any major equipment. If you have a future use, I think the Norwood style 3pt setup could serve you for a while depending on conditions where you will be cutting. 

petefrom bearswamp

Cfarm, I have a Farmi winch from the same year.
Great machine.
First on a JD 4020 now the Kubota M8540.
Prior to this I had an Allis Chalmers WD 45 with no winch and skidded plenty usually one tree at a time.
Skidding with a tractor is fine but care must be exercised, side hill, too much weight on the rear causing front end raising etc.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Al_Smith

I'm not a logger and I no longer sell firewood but I do cut it .It's easier for me to drag the stuff up to my splitter than move the splitter to the log .For that I use an old Ferguson tractor with a set of tongs .It does pretty good for what it is .

DaleK

Depends what end of the12-36” spectrum most of the trees fall into. 40-50 hp tractors work nice on the 12” stuff but they won’t touch the 36”. I use a Wallenstein FX110 on a chained up 2wd JD 3130 (85ish hp) to get in the tight corners and skid them out to the log roads, then I bundle them up and skid them out behind one of my 120 hp MFWD tractors with just a 2 pt drawbar on the back. I used a 45 hp MFWD Kubota for a while last winter skidding cedars but it really didn’t like anything much more than a 14-15” nice straight ash in the hardwood bush.

For 20-25 trees I’d probably just rent a good sized tracked skid loader and grapple for a day once you have them on the ground and either skid them out backwards or carry them out 10-12’ at a time
Hud-Son Oscar 330
Wallenstein FX110
Echo chainsaws and a whole bunch of tractors

thecfarm

DaleK, I hate to say it, but a 40 hp NH and a norse winch will haul out 36 inch pine and bigger. My Father and me did it for 3 years. Yes, we did not haul out many 3 foot logs that was 16 foot long with that 40hp tractor. But there was many 12 foot logs hauled out. Even some that was more than 4 feet across. 
But it's hard on the tractor doing that. My land is not easy land either.
One reason we bought the Norse winch because of the high pulley. The farmi winch would not even get the end of a 36 inch log off the ground.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

mike_belben

Ive only had old 2wd piddly tractors. 

A good load for the 17hp kubota with homemade skidding attachment. 










 Thats about the biggest oak my 26hp kubota 2cyl diesel can pull.  




It all scales. Its not the HP or traction, its keeping the front down.  A front loader will about double what you can budge with a 2wd tractor but they get stuck easier backing up wet hills. 

This is my buddy TJ up in CT with a 4wd.  Not sure how long that log was. 



Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Whatever you use or however you do it. It will be much easier if you get the front of the logs off the ground when you pull

Lostinmn

If you have future work for it a skidding winch and a grapple bucket works pretty slick!

We have a farmi 351p on ls mt357 tractor, 57 hp 4x4 hydrostatic.

As you can't always get the tractor to the log, the winch is great.  Also I highly recommend a self release pulley as there are time you need to change the pull direction when hung up against a stump or etc.  gives you a lot of directional pull flexibility!



 




Don P

I'd arrive with cookies and money to hire the pond building crew to stage everything out of the pond area for you to haul at your leisure. Notice the size machine you mentioned, and the ones being pictured. I understand the desire here but you are about to land in their lap and in the way. Hire them to make it work smoothly and it helps keep everyone happy and working.

PoginyHill

Quote from: mike_belben on December 15, 2021, 10:50:31 PM
Ive only had old 2wd piddly tractors.

A good load for the 17hp kubota with homemade skidding attachment.










Thats about the biggest oak my 26hp kubota 2cyl diesel can pull.  




It all scales. Its not the HP or traction, its keeping the front down.  A front loader will about double what you can budge with a 2wd tractor but they get stuck easier backing up wet hills.

This is my buddy TJ up in CT with a 4wd.  Not sure how long that log was.




Agree with the point of front-end weight. 3-point hitch lift, winch capacity, or tractor HP has never been my limitation - it has always been traction (if in mud or snow) or front end coming off the ground. When I skid limiting loads, I am steering with the rear brakes.
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Cat D5C, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 462

DWyatt

I don't have a picture of it, but Dad and I made an attachment for his tractor to skid logs. He has a 46ish HP John Deer 4WD tractor. The attachment is very similar to the quicktach 3 point attachments. Just a square tube frame that has a plate with a hole for a clevis at the top and a spot for a trailer hitch on the bottom for moving trailers easy. Just back up to the log, lower the 3 point, wrap a chain around the log and through the clevis, pick up and go. I'll reiterate what everyone else has said, get the end of the log off the ground and you'll be amazed what a small tractor can pull. We've easily pulled logs 20'long x 30" diameter through the woods with no damage to save trees. I'll try to get a picture today when I'm at my parents house. 

mike_belben

dons get the best idea.  you can buy a lot of lumber for 1 tractor payment. 
Praise The Lord

Al_Smith

I had this picture on another thread because I couldn't find this one at the time . This is some small stuff I snatched yesterday,24 footers .I can drag a 36" but not 24 feet of it ,maybe 8 foot .I'll get it out no matter how fat it is .HS physics ,snatch blocks .With enough of them you could move a battleship with a garden tractor

 

beenthere

 

 

A chain in place of the tongs works well too.


 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Lostinmn

Is this a one time deal or you building up equipment for future use?

I'm with Don if this is a one off. Although, I find beer and money gets better results then cookies...  ;) Many years ago for a summer high school job I worked for a utility company installing underground phone lines down in the Iowa/Missouri boarder towns.  We often had home owners step out with a case of beer or a few bucks asking the crew to do some quick little job with a WLB. Forman didn't mind as we always shared the beer and rarely took more then a couple minutes.

A tractor and skidding winch is a good option, plus the tractor has so, so many other uses if you have future plans for the equipment.  You don't need to go whole hog either.

Before adding the new LS tractor, I had our farmi on the back of ford 8n jubilee or skidded logs with the 3 pt lift on a old Farmall M.  While the new tractor is like the difference between a model T and a new F250, the old ford pulled logs just fine with some chains needed in the winter.  Also used a couple of log tongs on the front bucket for moving logs around and setting on the mill, with a couple ropes attached I could open and close the tongs without getting off the tractor (I'm all for working smarter then harder!).  This old school rig can be had a very reasonable rate to start.

So you don't need to spend 50K to start is what I'm saying, assuming you have longer term use for the tractor and possibly a winch or at least three point pick up rig.



 

 


John Mc

Two questions for you, Livemusic -

1) What are you going to be doing with the logs?
If you are going to be sawing lumber, and need longer lengths, your options for getting things down to an easily handled weight are limited. If you are making firewood, you can cut it to almost any length in order to get things down to a manageable weight. 20" oaks would be easily handled by that 45 HP tractor you mentioned, you just might not be dragging the whole tree out in one piece. The 36" diameter oaks will take more effort, and you may have to cut them down to shorter lengths to be able to move them. Aa 36" x 8' Red Oak log weighs about 3600# when green. If you have Live Oak, that weighs significantly more (we don't have that in my area)

2) Is this a one-time deal, or are you likely to do a lot of this sort of thing in the future?
You mentioned 20 trees. For just that use, something like the Norwood log skidder attachment you linked to would probably be a help, and is not expensive. You may also be able to make something similar, or adapt an existing implement to work. (I skidded behind a box blade for a time. It was not ideal, but it worked as long as the logs weren't too big.) It sounds as though you are working mainly in the open on this project. That makes it easy to back right up to the logs, which allows you to get away without a lot of additional equipment. If you plan on doing a lot of this in the future, and will be working in the woods, you'll want to consider a 3 pt hitch logging winch, as others have shown here. They are not cheap, however (Something in the size range to match a 45 HP tractor could easily run $4000 - $5000 or more these days.)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

JW IN VA

 I see several pictures of people skidding with a tractor who hook to a toolbar on the three point hitch arms.

While this is the way I skid, I will tell you to USE CAUTION ! Even if the front end is heavily weighted lifting that high can be dangerous. If you must do this, go slow and keep your hand on the lift control so you can drop it quickly.
 I once was skidding a long tree out and, when it got wedged, the front end came up very quickly. Paused just long enough for me to pull the fuel stop or I would have rolled it backward on top of me. This was with a 4600 Ford with some weights and fluid filled tires on the front.
 Only explanation for it to have paused is God's intervention.
Be mindful also that a farm tractor does not have heavy protection like a skidder would. I've seen a 600.00 rear tire ruined by a small stob along the roadway unseen.

mike_belben

When the boy was about 3 we flipped the little cub cadet kids tractor onto a drag of firewood tops and the tractor onto us.  I cradled the kid and took the brunt of it so i got chewed up and he just got a real tight hug but man it happened in an instant in crawler gear just puttering. 

One putt we were at a 45 incline putt 2 vertical and then it was coming backwards.  Because it rose so fast i couldnt get my foot on the clutch.. Was too busy trying not to get thrown off.

Keep your foot on the clutch when hitched up and pulling.  Dumping the logs doesnt always stop it.  I should probably tether the fuel shutoff to my wrist or something.
Praise The Lord

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