Separate hydraulics needed for grapple?

[livemusic]

I was talking to a guy yesterday and he asked if I am going to get a grapple for the used Mahindra 5010 tractor that I recently bought and I said yes. Have been researching them. He said a grapple will require a separate hydraulic system from the FEL. Now, he has a John Deere, I dunno if that matters but I need to know, will this extra 'system' be required on mine? I thought I could just buy a grapple and the same joystick system as I have for the FEL would work for the grapple. Then again, this fellow knows less than me regarding equipment, lol. Anyway, he said he had to buy it and that, alone, was $1,500. I think he has a brush grapple and I am leaning toward the type primarily used to move logs and firewood rounds.

[PoginyHill]

Some hydraulic supply will be needed for the grapple. It can be a "third function" circuit from your hydraulic pump (normally a solenoid valve with a button to control), but separate from FEL hydraulics. Or you can get a valve and use your tilt hydraulics for the grapple - but you could then use only one function at a time. You could also run a line from your rear remotes - if you have one.

[BargeMonkey]

Like he just said ☝ how many rear remotes do you have ? 3 out of 4 of our tractors are plumbed off the remotes. Cheapest and easiest way to go, I just did it for a friend of mine, 2x 1/2 hoses and 4 ends, 2 sets of plugs couplers, done. 

[btulloh]

Third function kits run about $600 or so depending. Summit Hydraulics sells them for specific tractors which can make the job easier because they've figured out all the fittings.  

A grapple is a great tool but to get the most out of it you'll want to add the third function kit. Well worth the expense. 

[livemusic]

There is one set of remotes at the back of my tractor.

Would I use the same joystick as I have for the FEL or will a grapple have its own?

[btulloh]

Most third function kits will have a Lolipop that mounts on the joystick that has the switch to run the jaws. Makes it a one hand operation to control all three functions. 

[btulloh]

https://summit-hydraulics.com/product/hydraulic-third-function-valve-kit-w-joystick-handle-for-tractor-loader-13-gpm/

[Southside]

I built a Quick Tach style head for my Lull so I can switch from forks, to bucket, to grapple, etc just like a skid steer.  Having a third valve via a thumb switch for the grapple is worth the investment.  I can pick and place stuff like it's in my hand.  If you rob the only remote you have off the rear then you won't have access to that if you are doing some field type of work and want the grapple on the front at the same time.  Even something like raking hay and moving bales off the field you might be out of options without the dedicated 3rd valve up front.  

[Stephen Alford]

   Hey there Mr livemusic Fwiw this is a pic of how the hydraulics were split on ol blue to get an extra set of quick couplers. Just  reused some ol hydraulic components and made a small lever into the cab for a control function. As mentioned it would be nice to have use of all hydraulics at once ...but for the cost works for me. The grapple is one of the implements used to extract trail cut wood or move slash etc. Its on the rear of the tractor. 



 



 

[newoodguy78]

You Virginia guys have all the sweet functions on your equipment. 
Nice job on the plumbing Stephen that's a nice looking setup. 

[newoodguy78]

 


Tough to see but I ran 1/2" iron pipe from the back to the front with short hoses at flex points, running off of the remotes. Was cheaper than the long hoses I would've needed. 
The third function would be really nice but for the money invested and simplicity of it it can't complain. 

[PoginyHill]

There is one set of remotes at the back of my tractor.

Would I use the same joystick as I have for the FEL or will a grapple have its own?

If you use rear remotes, you'd control your grapple with whatever lever you have for that remote - normally on or near the fender. You can stack on additional rear remotes cheaper than you can a 3rd function kit. If you add another remote, you'll need to choose open or closed center (it may affect anything else using remotes at the same time). You can route a control lever cable wherever you'd like in that case.
As has been mentioned, a 3rd function kit makes for the sleekest operation, but that comes at a cost. Convivence or cost; that is the eternal question.

[mike_belben]

just to help you visualize what all the words mean-  hydraulics has many ways you can set things up, and lots of interchangeable words-  this is a very basic open center loop system with a 3 spool valve for your boom, curl and grapple.





now in real life there may be a total system relief valve standalone like ive drawn (that vents overpressure back to tank (atmospheric low pressure)) like a safety relief on a boiler or water heater.  the main relief is often integrated inside of the spool valve and that outlet line ive drawn would be a power beyond line to the next function valve.  that downstream valve may also have its own relief line and power beyond to another downstream valve.  

its all expandable and can be done in different order, or there can be a 2nd pump or a single pump with 2 independent outlets or a priority divider to make 2 loops off a common pump.  like i said its incredibly variable but this very basic loop should help you picture it.  i have not drawn in any remote valve.  it could be that the draft control valve is multi spool, or that there is a 3rd spool valve in the circuit or even some other combination.  heck you could have a variable displacement closed center valve for all i know and then this system doesnt even apply.

if you have a fixed gear pump open center system like i presume, the 3 spool valve and hoses is all you need to add the grapple seamlessly, for a prettier penny.  you probably have a 2 spool loader valve.  it can be replaced with a 3 spool, or grapple can be added by using a switching device on the A and B ports to toggle between say curl or grapple.  it is a cheaper compromise to get the grapple to work.  using your remotes is the cheapest but you will have to reach over to the other lever each time.  a small price to pay if you havent got the $$ or dont wanna mod your current system.  reaching for a grapple lever is better than wishing you had a grapple to reach for. 

[BargeMonkey]

Cheap and easy 🤦‍♂️😆 unless your using the remotes at the same time you've got the grapple on ? I will take a picture of my TC-35, the hoses literally stay attached to the tractor and hang up when unplugged, couplers on the front mounted. Price adding another set of remotes and you may want to sit down. Decent hose shop you can run 2 hoses with the ends for 350-400 ? Done. Use the handle you've got. 

[btulloh]

You Virginia guys have all the sweet functions on your equipment.
Nice job on the plumbing Stephen that's a nice looking setup.

 

[newoodguy78]

And cameras on your forks :D :D

[mike_belben]

virginia is for ticket lovers!  ;D

all my sleeping on the shoulder tickets are from virginia, thats why i hang my hat in tennessee.   8)

[samandothers]

I used a 3rd function valve by WR Long.  I came with a toggle switch mounted on the FEL joystick making it very handy to operate.

[btulloh]

And cameras on your forks :D :D

You bet!  After using the camera for a while, I wouldn't want to go back.  It's a great tool. If you ever knock a lumber pack off the top of a stack trying to get the forks in it you'd be a fan too.  (Not that i ever did that.  ;) )

[mike_belben]

what camera you guys recommend these days?  

probably 8 years ago i put a cheapo pieced together screen and 2 cameras in my 2 ton truck. one at the pintle and one on the sleeper looking down at the gooseneck ball.  hooking a 5th wheel is nothing like a gn that you cannot see at all from any mirror, and a little too deep puts the trailer into the mattress, especially with no parking brake on slopey ground.  boy that thing was a lifesaver and i could hit the hitch every time just right then shut off in gear.  but the cameras didnt last long. 

[btulloh]

Depends on the situation. They don't have to be expensive, but a decent display helps. Also depends on whether you want wired or wireless. Wired is the best value. I wanted wireless with a battery in the cam. 

They are in harms way for some applications so you either have to harden it or live with it. My fork cam is mounted on the brick rack, so I take off if I use the forks for brush or logs and just have it mounted for actual pallet work.

[47sawdust]

I have dual rear remotes on my kubota L3750.
One set runs the hyd. top link, the other has wet lines run to the front loader for power angle snow plow,brush grapple and scoop and spread sander.The sander would not run off a 3rd function valve.
If I had no factory rear remotes I would feed a 3 spool valve from my loader valve.You would have a lot more possibilities for hook ups.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I have 3 loader tractors plumbed 3 ways. 1 is a 3 spool loader valve with a 2nd joystick for the 3rd function, 2 is plumbed off the rear remotes with long hoses, 3rd is a diverter valve teed into the curl circuit.

Easiest to use is the 3 spool valve as the controls for loader and 3rd function are on 2 grouped sticks and its easy to multifunction. Next is the one with hoses to remotes but takes two hands to curl and close grapple. 

Least favorite and next to get changed is the diverter valve setup. For me 99% of the time when using the grapple I'm also curling the bucket. Those two functions are a pain to use at the same time having to click the button on and off 100 times.

[TroyC]

Sooner or later you are gonna want a hydraulic top link on the rear for your bushog and other implements. That will tie up your rear hydraulics. My TYM had the WR Long third function. Lift, curl, open/close all on same stick. Dealer installed when adding grapple, about $1,000.

Also, lots of grapple designs to choose from. I prefer the split claws with two cylinders on the grapple. That allows for taper on logs and being able to pick up different sized loads. The claws can usually be bolted together if needed but I prefer ones that operate separately.

[EricR]

You  should try to find out if the loader valve has power beyond.  The kubota I had did.  It makes it pretty simple to add another valve rather then an expensive kit and keeps your rear remote open for when you get a wallenstein 3 pt grapple 😉