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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Kelvin on July 11, 2008, 11:08:53 PM

Title: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Kelvin on July 11, 2008, 11:08:53 PM
Howdy all,
well being cheap and all i'm always asking around for what people have found to work well.  I just called Bailey's the other day, who i like to support, and found that the anchorseal is pretty pricey and shipping is awful expensive now too.  I think it made the cost something like $70+ for 5 gals.  In the past i've used up old 1 gallon jugs of simple wood glue that made a pretty good sealent on the end, but didn't quite do any testing.  I've heard of a few...
Wax toilet bowl rings?  Just smear them on.  (i'm wondering if maybe you could thin them up with mineral spirits and paint on?)
Parifin wax, pretty cheap, but heating all the time is a pain, but maybe worth the savings in shipping and what not.  Local craft store sells in big blocks and has 50% off all the time.  Maybe this also could be dissolved in mineral sprits and painted on?
Paint, but everyone says this one is too thin.  Latex or oil?
Maybe thompsons water sealent?  I'm thinking of something you can get in quantitiy cheap enough, apply easily enough, and not pay $30 shipping per bucket.  Anyone got some seceret reciepies?  How about tar anyone?  Roof sealent (white stuff for mobile homes?)  Of course anything that reeks havoc on the further processing of the lumber is a problem (tar?)
Appreciate any ideas,
kelvin
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Brad_S. on July 11, 2008, 11:45:01 PM
IMO, skimping on sealants is a false economy. Get the Anchor Seal. Still only works out to $14 a gallon. That's not bad and a little seems to go a long way. Easily saves you that much in ruined lumber and, IMO, works as claimed.
I used to get a lot of logs from customers who thought they were smart and covered their logs with paraffin. It's a complete waste, the stuff doesn't adhere well and flakes off before it's even sawn, leaving the wood bare again. Mobile home roofing cement is the only other product I've heard "experts" say was anywhere near as effective as Anchor Seal.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: WDH on July 12, 2008, 12:19:26 AM
I have used the aluminum roof paint, Kool-seal I think (Lowes), and it works very good.  However, it is horrible to clean up, and all things considered, it does not cost less enough to hassle with it for what I do.  When I used my first anchorseal, I thought that I had died and gone to heaven.  I found regular paint, oil or latex, to be a waste of time.

I decided that life was too short, so it is anchorseal for me :).
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: woodhick on July 12, 2008, 12:54:43 AM
Have you tried to find it locally.  Check out there website and look for local dealers.  I found three in MI. 

https://www.uccoatings.com/
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: rfalk on July 12, 2008, 10:33:58 AM
Our local woodturning club buys 55 gallon drums of Anchorseal and transfers into old milk jugs for sale to members.....we cover our costs at $10 gal.....wasn't too many years ago we could do it for $5....you might want to think about partnering with a couple other sawyers or with a club (if there's one in your area). bob
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Dale Hatfield on July 13, 2008, 11:01:28 AM
Not my mix but a disgruntaled walmart employee. I have been using Mckloskeys  deck sealer for carvings . SO anyhow I needed some black .
Aske If she could mix this into colors  yes pick a color. I said black . she wheeled around pumped some dye into can mixed  and said their ya go.
I took home and started painting bears. Much to my horror  it was black but it was a bad mix.  I had oil based sealer and she put in latex to make a real nice wax based sealer. That did dry but not when i needed it .
Id say it was prolly about 8 oz of black latex to a gallon of oil based sealer that she wrecked.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: TexasTimbers on July 13, 2008, 12:50:37 PM
Kelvin, when I get to the shop I will give you the phone number of my representitive at ACI. Associated Chemists Inc.

I have mentioned them several times here in the past. I will give you an example of what kind of customer support to expect.

A couple weeks ago I was spraying some turning blocks with the sealer and noticed that since it was so hot, the sealer was not as thick as I wanted for this species. The flame boxelder I sell. It is extremely prone to checking and needs a real thick coat of wax to keep it from splitting apart.

I called and told my rep what was going on. We discussed the solution back and forth and he said he would get some thickener in the mail right away, no charge. In a couple days I got some kind of polymer and added it to a 5 gallon bucket of sealer and stirred it like a bucket of paint with my drill and agitator.

He had told me on the phone, and sent a post-it note reminder with the free polymer, "Be careful and add slowly as this is very active!" Well it was only a little 2 pint container, but I used a little less tahn 1/4 of the polymer and m,an that stuff is almost too thick for me now. In fact it will not even spray. Lesson learned. I will thicken one of the other 5 gallon containers more slowly when this oine runs out.

I am now dipping my blocks in a vat and the stuff is dynamite. Talk about sealing the turning blocks in wax. I can make my own recipes with this stuff all at no charge.

I got a letter from them - one of those "Dear valuable customer...." type letters like a month ago or maybe 2. They regretfully informed eveyone that they are goig to have to have a price increase. They did not suddenly raise prices on the next order, they detailed why they had to do it. It was a staggering 2 or 3% increase I can't remember, but they were sincerely apologetic about it.

Now, I believe with the new pricing structure, I can only buy about three to three and a half 5 gallon containers of their sealer for every one of Anchorseals. ::)

I know I made the satement that I still use Anchorseal on some really special items, but now that I have this ability to use the sealer as thick or thin as I want, I don't see a need for it anymore.

Just my preference. YMMV. If you, or anyoine else  want more details let me know I will post the info agaiun.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Kelvin on July 13, 2008, 12:57:37 PM
sounds interesting.  What was the sealer used for intially?  I'd like to get some info on it, but the big problem for me is the shipping is about as much as the product.  Maybe they are closer.  I emailed a place thats about 2hrs away that is an anchorseal dealer, but with gas prices thats about a $100 drive in my truck, so not much savings there.  Maybe i'll keep one bucket of anchorseal for the high end logs and experiment with the others.  Its good if some one has experience with multiple types so they compare.  That way when someone says "paint works fine" well... compared to what?  I'll have to price the mobile home roofing stuff.

The post about the mixed paints was interesting   Did you use it for log end sealer then?  THats what anchorseal looks like.  latex and oil mixed together!  Did it work as a sealent even though it didn't dry?  I'm game for trying things. 

Thanks all, anymore ideas out there are welcome!!!!
Kelvin
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: TexasTimbers on July 13, 2008, 03:02:58 PM
. . . but the big problem for me is the shipping is about as much as the product. 
Shipping and product cost will probably be less than AS by itself or not much more. I buy it by the skid so I end up getting it cheap, don't know how it would turn out just ordering a single bucket because I don't know the price structure that way, and I get great pallet rates. They allow me to use my own carrier so I don't have to pay any of their handling fees. Another plus.  I really appreciate companies who allow me to send a truck to pick up my goods. Saves me alot of money usually. One of the reasons i tout this comany is because I like to scratch the backs that scratch mine. I get no commissions or anything when others order because of my referrals.

Maybe i'll keep one bucket of anchorseal for the high end logs and experiment with the others. 
I was using AS on some stuff but I finally came to the point where I use the ACI for everything. And now that I can thicken it as much as I want, I won't be reordering anymore AS.

I use alot of sealer. Not counting logs and other species I use alot just on the boxelder. These are orders being processed so I have to know that my sealer will work. i recently got my first request for a refund from a guy who was unhappy with the quality of the wood. But it was my fault.  I had gotten his order mixed up with a guy who buys my lower grade woods and resaws into other stuff like pen blanks and reel seats and duck call blanks etc. But I have never had anyone call and say "This wood is cracked!" So I am happy with it even before I started using the thickener.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/ACIwaxSealer4.jpg)

Here's a picture of a board that I needed to seal the whole thing because it had a little pith left on one side, and i want to minimize cupping and try to save the board in tact. Time will tell but I have had pretty good results doing this. But you can see how clear the product dries. it's thicker than the picture can convey. This is after adding the thickener.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/ACIwaxSealer3.jpg)


Call the 800 number on the container and ask for Scott. Tell him you're interested in the K-7002 Clear Wax Sealer.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/ACIwaxSealer2.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/PolymerThickener.jpg)

Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: shinnlinger on July 13, 2008, 03:06:58 PM
Hi,

I have never sealed my ends as it seems I mill mostly pine when I need to use it and well, I never seem to find the time.  

That said if I was milling up some special hardwood I can see the value of a good seal and this post has caught my interest.  When I was a wee lad I needed to put a bumper on an old jeep and ended up using a 5x7 oak floor joist left over from a timber frame job.  

Anywhoo and old timer told me to melt parafin (use a double boiler, trust me) and mix it 50/50 w/ kerosene.  THis mixture penetrated well and gave good protection as I abused that bumper in more ways than I care to recall here.

I would think it might make a good end sealer as you will still be able to see the grain, and no, you dont need to heat it up to use it.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: TexasTimbers on July 13, 2008, 03:49:33 PM
That's interesting shinnlinger. Wonder where a fella would get alot of parafin wax on the cheap? I am always willing to experiment.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Kelvin on July 13, 2008, 07:37:56 PM
Great guys, thanks for the input.  I'll call the sealer guys tomorrow and find out about shipping.  Cheap place for parifin is where you would get canning supplies, or craft shops.
Kelvin
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: trapper on July 13, 2008, 11:00:59 PM
pariffin wax - hobby lobby at times they have large sheats on sale
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: WDH on July 13, 2008, 11:58:10 PM
TT,

Nice negundo ;D.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: tcsmpsi on July 14, 2008, 09:48:16 AM
Candle making suppliers sell an assortment of wax blends in bulk quantities. 

I get mine, generally in 60 lb boxes, from Lone Star Candle Supply.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Larry on July 14, 2008, 11:15:32 AM
A couple of north Missouri mills that saw a lot of gunstocks have dip tanks filled with say 50 gallons of paraffin.  I think they heat the tanks with steam to keep it melted.  No idea where they get the paraffin.  On a smaller scale one miller that saws osage orange turning blocks uses a double boiler with paraffin.  He tried Anchor Seal but got a thicker coating with the paraffin.

I tried ACI couple years ago.  The sample I got was a Valspar product.  Worked ok in the DH kiln but in the much hotter solar kiln it flaked off, I suppose from the heat.  Are they using the same formulation today?
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Left Coast Chris on July 14, 2008, 09:46:12 PM
One thing I noticed about the Anchorseal is that it penetrates a little.  Something you would not want for imersing a gun stock since you would have to plane to get past the sealer.  Parifin sounds good for low penetration but it seems that hotter would be better to get a thin film and not use too much of it.   :P
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: woodbowl on July 14, 2008, 11:27:58 PM
How about a plastic garbage bag taped to the end? Never tried it, always wanted to. It would seem that it would make a little green house effect and possibly dry faster. So, why not apply contact cement to the log end and the plastic to make the seal. I would think also that a piece of plastic, a 1/2" piece of foam rubber, then a short board nailed to the end would slow things down a lot. Let me know if this sounds too cheep.  ::)
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Dan_Shade on July 15, 2008, 11:50:01 AM
anchorseal evaporates when you run the high temps at the end of your kiln schedule.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on July 15, 2008, 07:25:13 PM

 By then, I wouldn't think you would need it ???
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: HOOF-ER on July 18, 2008, 10:56:35 PM
INFO - I tried making some homemade sealant today. Had one of those outdoor candle been sitting on the back porch for forever. Heated it and added mineral spirits to it. Turned out real neat. It reminded me of bacon grease. Smooth and creamy looks like it will go on really good. Then I thought why not make some more? Went to the store and bought some straight paraffin and did the same to it. When it set up it was kind of clumpy. Will still probably work just not the wonderful appeal of the first batch. They must have lot different wax in the candle. What ever it is that is what I would want to use.

 Then I called Texas Timbers company. They were very helpful and quoted a price. Minimum was $100 . I dont know if they will let 2-5gal jugs go as the min. May have to buy 3. I am not sure if I can make the home brew for that price. So I"ll be making out an order to try the ready made.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: gregghale on December 28, 2017, 05:39:21 PM
The products once sought from ACI (Associated Chemist) Portland, Oregon facility are still available.  Walker Emulsions purchased ACI in 2012.  The K-7002 is a wax emulsion used for sealing logs and lumber.  They used to have other, similar products, but you would need to give them a call. 
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: hersnsh#590 on December 28, 2017, 07:28:28 PM
OK,  I'll bite.  I'm like Kevin, I'm cheap , and I like to experiment.  I like to seal my leather work boots regularly, and I had a favorite wax product that I used and Liked.  Blue and white can.  It seems there was a price increase when I went to buy a new can, and I decided to "speriment".  Google gave some ideas that sounded good to me.  I mixed equal parts of toilet bowl sealing wax, linseed oil, and mineral spirits.  Heated gently in a metal can on the shop wood stove until the wax melted, and stirred occasionally along the way.  That produced a creamy yellowish mix that is somewhat more liquid than the "blue can" product.  It applies easily to boots, and works well on leather gloves also.  I like it, it seems to work, and I don't believe is costs $1/oz to brew up.  For what it's worth.

Dale
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: Peter Drouin on December 29, 2017, 01:06:18 PM
If I had to I would go to a big box store and buy the mix off color junk. Short $$
 ;D
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: doc henderson on July 26, 2018, 04:43:56 PM
Hey guys, I am new to the forum.  i am a hobby woodworker, with a sawmill and laser engraver.  My brother used to do road construction and they used a wax cure on top of concrete to slow water evap.  They would start with tanks of 4 thousand gallons and finish with totes of 275 gallons.  
At the end of the job, they would dig a hole and smash the meatal crates with plastic liner inside.  i use the metal parts to store and move firewood.  i am using anchorseal, but have looked for something cheaper.  I plan to get a partial crate of this wax emulsion to try.  I know it is not toxic and labeled wax emulsion.  If any of you know guys that do road construction or big concrete jobs, see if they have some left over at the end of the job.  You might just get a hundred gallons or so for free.  Worth a try and it looks and feels just like the anchorseal
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: SawyerTed on July 26, 2018, 05:56:08 PM
Cut corners, go the cheap route the results will show it.....


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48503/image~41.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1532642118)
B
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: OffGrid973 on July 26, 2018, 06:25:12 PM
When handling the wood on the furniture side I would not be happy with anything except anchor seal touching my saw blades...still try not to hit it, but no complaints from customers when they can see the end grain and still avoid checking.

Harbor freight roller, heavy nap, and anchor seal with screw top and handle, dream combination 
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: wesdor on July 27, 2018, 01:58:44 PM
Iím cutting bowl blanks for woodturning next week. A friend just bought 1 gallon of clear Elmerís Glue. We are going to try that and see how it compares to Anchor Seal. 

Currently price for Anchor Seal looks to be about $35/ gal. Price for Elmerís Glue - $9 / gal. 

Anyone try Elmerís Glue?

Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: DDobbs on July 27, 2018, 03:33:08 PM
I use Anchorseal most of the time
But I also use Titebond glue 3 cups of glue 1 cup of water.
 Both work great.

Dave
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: low_48 on July 27, 2018, 11:40:42 PM
For bowl blanks I have used glue. I slather on a thick coat, then stick on a layer of glossy paper. Like advertisements and old magazines. It's worked very well on stock up to 8" thick. It was just an idea to simulate a vapor barrier, maybe glue by itself would work just as well.
Title: Re: Best recipies for log end sealers that really work?
Post by: kiamori on August 16, 2018, 02:52:23 AM
You can get the non toxic wood glue for about $11-13 a gallon with free shipping from a lot of places if you have other things to order. amazon, target, etc.

seems to work better than anchorseal and it also dries clear so you can still see the grain for cuts.