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I'm nervous! Send help

Started by daltonk58, March 06, 2016, 07:44:59 PM

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WV Sawmiller

Dalton,

   May be distasteful suggestion but you might consider sub-contracting or partnering with someone else in the area who has more robust equipment and experience. Work with, watch and learn from them and be more ready for the next job.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Quote from: daltonk58 on March 06, 2016, 08:26:05 PMI hate to do it. It honestly puts my stomach in knots to say sorry I can't but I don't want an upset customer nether.
The customer should respect the fact that you honestly are not equipped to do the job.  Even with my hydraulic sawmill, I would be very cautious to accept the job because I have sawn over 36" logs before and they are no fun.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ncsawyer

IMHO if the guy still wants his floor joists out of those 5ft diameter red oaks after you made him a price...then you priced the job too low.  In a situation like that I would price that job way high so that it would not be at all economical for him to mill his floor joists out of those logs...because its not! 

Now if he were to find some normal sized logs that I could handle it might become more economical for him to have his floor joists milled rather than buying them. 
2015 Wood-Mizer LT40DD35
Woodmaster 718 planer
Ford 445 Skip Loader

isawlogs

 Way too big of a job for the mill you have, even quartered those peices of wood still need get on your mill, and you will need to turn them eventualy.... Just saying , it will be a heavy turn and peices are going to stretch your arms.
  There are much better jobs to earn money and experience without throwing your back doing them.   ;)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Tree Dan

Working with those big logs can also get you hurt. The logs for his job are way over sized...sugest smaller trees or walk away from the job.
Great way to wreck your mill when a chunk of that Oak falls on the bed.
Stay safe!
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

4x4American


With a sharp saw and a steady grasp it's not that bad to split red oak with a powersaw, long as you're getting paid.  Prolly be even better with 10° rip chain.  You can hand file to 10° or use a grinder.  I was just using regular cross cut chisel chain here and the 660 just went to town.  After opening up the muffler on it, the sound she makes just eats away at me  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCk9vF22Wb0
Boy, back in my day..

kensfarm

Big logs big problems..  you have to spend so much time & effort to just prepare them to be milled.. that's where the bulk of the time will be spent. 

I've seen some of the guys on the forum that can cut those huge logs w/ no problems.. they make it look easy..  but it's not. 

Brad_bb

What you are proposing is a whole lot more cost than I think he'd want to pay for floor joists.  It's too easy to underestimate the scope of the felling and splitting and moving of the material.  That is where you will lose, underestimating the time and work involved.  By the time you add the extra handling cost of felling and splitting and getting it on the mill, I doubt he'd want to pay that price for floor joists.  Nor do I think you'd want to eat any of that cost when you under bid it.  It would be one thing if you were at home and trying it for yourself, and a whole different thing to commit to a price not having the equipment or proper time factored in.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

sandsawmill14

you have more money in your pocket now than you will after the job is finished even if you are able to finish it :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

4x4American

True, and you might wanna put a few more
months on the saw before you get to tackling big
stuff, especially on an onsite job.
Boy, back in my day..

fishfighter

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 06, 2016, 09:02:00 PM
Dalton,

   May be distasteful suggestion but you might consider sub-contracting or partnering with someone else in the area who has more robust equipment and experience. Work with, watch and learn from them and be more ready for the next job.

This for sure. Other then that, with a manual mill and logs that big, I would run fast.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: 4x4American on March 06, 2016, 10:38:11 PM

With a sharp saw and a steady grasp it's not that bad to split red oak with a powersaw, long as you're getting paid.  Prolly be even better with 10° rip chain.  You can hand file to 10° or use a grinder.  I was just using regular cross cut chisel chain here and the 660 just went to town.  After opening up the muffler on it, the sound she makes just eats away at me  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCk9vF22Wb0

4X,

   Yes it can be done but the trees he is describing are twice as big around and close to twice as long as the one shown on your video. I split an 8'6" white oak about 44" diameter a while back with a MS441 Sthil and a 24 inch bar, a new chain and finally pulled it apart with my 4 wheeler. I don't want to do it again. I am short on proper equipment and it nearly destroyed everything I had to move it. And when I went to cut it I do have hydraulics which lifted and turned the sections. When I got done, because of internal damage from the spliting when the storm blew it down, I only got a little over 100 bf of usable lumber.

   A 5' diameter tree is more like the main tree in this picture, not the 44" fork I have cut on the ground.



 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Den-Den

I have a manual mill and have cut 42 - 44" diameter oak after they were quartered but only 10 ft long.  I don't believe it is possible to turn a quarter like that with a cant hook (I had to use a winch on the 10' long quarters).  Quartered sections are MUCH more difficult to turn than equal weight rounds.  You will still be making wide cuts which require more frequent blade changes; a blade that will still cut 15" wide nice and flat may not be sharp enough to cut 24" wide.
The length capacity would be a good idea even if you don't take this job but if you do take it; your hourly wage will likely be low for some very hard work.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Tom the Sawyer

07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Swamp Fox

Sounds like more work than it's worth to me.

alanh

Im not an experienced miller but I`ve had the experience of cutting up some 3' X 16' pine on my non hydraulic mill, they only needed the butts trimmed and without our 580 Case backhoe with a 4 way loader bucket AND a 5000 lb forklift it would`ve been IMO, impossible.

Ox

There's nothing wrong with telling your customer that you made a mistake and after thinking a lot about it, you don't think you can handle those bigger logs.  Either he'll choose smaller trees or pay to have the big ones handled.  That being said, this job CAN be done by you.  It'll take massive amounts of time, energy, fuel, chains, etc.  Anything can be done if you throw enough time and money at it.  If you decide to do this job, I think getting paid by the hour would be better than by the board foot.  Most of your time will be in processing the massive logs in order to get them on your mill!  A nice sit down chat with your customer over a cup of coffee would be a nice way to start, perhaps.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

WV Sawmiller

    Den-Den made a good point I meant to mention also. Turning quarters or halves is also going to be much harder than turning a round log. I seriously doubt any lone man is going to turn them by himself even with the supersized Logrite cant or peavey hook.

   Even handling the 2X10X18 boards are going to be a chore. Do you or the customer have a long trailer or big flatbed truck to haul them on? I've had customers order lumber they could not transport with the equipment they had. May not be your responsibility for the transport but you are going to have to move the boards and need to help advise the customer on such issues as part of your responsibility as the sawyer and functional area expert.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Ianab

Anybody local with a 10" capacity Swing blade mill that you could contract the sawing part too?

That will handle a job like that, probably without moving the logs from where they fall. You could subcontract the actual sawing, and add your charges for the felling / prep work and working as an off-bearer.

Still going to be hard work, but at least you then have the right machine for the job.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

4x4American

I kinda missed the 3, 4, and 5 foot part, and didn't realize it was a manual mill...I would try and find him a guy with a swing blade mill like Ianab reccommended. Or a mobile dimension.  That sounds like wayy too much effort for nuttin special..
Boy, back in my day..

Peter Drouin

It is a big job. Tell him you will do it by the hour. Like $175.00, $200.00. Get some of your buddies and pay them $15.00 an hour. 2 or 3 of them. Have them bring there saws. Buy new saw chains for there saws. Have them wear the safety stuff too, If they don't have it get it for them. You can take the price of the stuff out of there pay.
Tell him he is responable for the equipment to move the logs.
Get $1,500 or more to start.

I bet the trees have gone buy and are junk on the in side [the butt log]
And at the end of every week get payed, So when you go home you are even with him.
If he don't like your turms, tell him Have a nice day and go do something else. :D
Keep in mind, you want to make the customer happy but your the BOSS and you don't work for free.   
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

daltonk58

Hey guys sorry I'm just not replying. It was a long day at work.... I read every one's opinions and thoughts, took them seriously and have my mind made up. I think it's too much for me to take on at this point. Lack of equipment/knowledge/ etc. It's frustrating on myself because I love a good challenge and rarely say no to much anything. But I don't want to screw anything up for him as far as lumber goes and more importantly I don't want a bad reputation. Thanks for all the input it really was a lot of help.
Hey everybody! New to the forum and sawing as well. Willing to learn a much as possible. I recently bought a norwood MX 34. Any info or tips will be greatly appreciated!

WV Sawmiller

   Hard decision but I think your reputation will be rewarded accordingly. Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

sandsawmill14

dalton that is a wise decision you could probably handle 36" logs in shorter lengths but you can destroy a good sawmill with logs that size and you cant make any money on them either i have sawn a bunch of them up to 44-48" but i rolled a 12' pin oak off in the woods a while back that was over 60" in the biggest spot where the limbs grew around it at about 7' up from but it was still about 50" at the little end. told the boss i wasnt going to spend a day and a half sawing pallet stock out of something like that :o ;D there should be some pics in my gallery :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

jtflynn

Dalton.....you made a good choice smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup

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