Too Old to change careers?

[Old Nate]

Hi everyone. My name is Nathan, I've been contemplating a career in a forestry related field for some time now and recently found this forum. I am 37 years old, married with three boys (5, 3, and 1). I'm a veteran, served in the Air Force and already have a bachelor's degree in English Literature. I work for the government as an HVAC technician. I'm currently talking to Penn State about the Forest Ecosystem Management degree they offer. 

I was hoping some classes would be offered online but looks like if I want to pursue this degree I'll have to go full time the traditional way. I was going to inquire about switching my shift to nights, but I don't think I could do that and go to school and give my wife and boys the love and support they need and I want to give to them. Honestly, I don't know how I can afford it but I desperately want to make this change.  

If anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate the advice. I wish I had realized this and knew about the forestry field ten years ago, but it's pointless to ponder on that now. 

[WV Sawmiller]

  Sounds like some tough decisions. I hope you find a satisfactory compromise or solution to your challenges. You say you are talking to Penn State. Be sure to lay out your situation as clearly as possible to them and hopefully they can develop some sort of customized schedule you can work with. Good luck. 

[Old Nate]

Thanks. If they can work out a special schedule for me I would greatly appreciate it... it's about a 2 hour drive one way. Honestly, I didn't think that would be an option. 

[dgdrls]

See if Mississippi State can help you,

https://online.msstate.edu/forestry/

D

[dougtrr2]

You have to look at the long term big picture.  Working, going to school, and taking care of family all that the same time can be done but sacrifices and compromises will have to be made.  

When I was in the Air Force I went to school full time.  I had to get my schedule changed to do it.  My shift was 3 on, 3 off; 12 hour nights 6 to 6.  I would come home, go to sleep,  get up at noon and go to school in the afternoon.  Come home eat and then go to work. On my days off I was at the college catching up on my shop time (Industrial Arts Teacher) but there was very little family time, and we were a very young family.  My first son was born while I was in school.   So it can be done.  Just keep your eye on the long term prize/happiness.

Doug in SW IA

[Old Nate]

My wife is an RN and has been working 1 day a week or not at all for 4 years now. She told me she would go back full time but I don't know if I can make her do that. That scenario puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. 

I'm looking into getting my work schedule changed but would see my kids and wife very little as a result. This also would be incredibly difficult on everyone. 

I appreciate everyone's insight and your own stories. ESP those that went back to school as non traditional students. 

[Grizzly]

She told me she would go back full time but I don't know if I can make her do that

If your best friend and mate offers to do the same for you as you would for her, be careful you don't insult her offer. She may have her eye on the long-term more so than you do. I do agree that whatever you do is a decision you reach together. just my thought.

[Arborpower]

One of the BEST online programs is at Oregon State University.  Instructor is Paul Ries - A great teacher.  You can either enroll for a full degree in environmental studies, or just take the section in Urban Forestry.  This is a total online program from one of the best instructors around.  https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/online-degrees/graduate/urban-forestry/

[Old Nate]

What about accreditation? I've read several articles, etc that basically said be  aware of anything offered solely online. Businesses look for grads that come from hands on accredited programs. 

[petefrom bearswamp]

You are never too old to follow your dream.
I left a secure position with NY state Dept of Environmental Conservation in 1978 at the age of 41 to pursue a career as a self employed consulting forester.
Best move I ever made.
I remember going to the Ranger School in Wanakena NY in 1958 with a friend, his father a forester, was driving us.
I was very young so your situation is obviously different.
My friend and i were discussing what to do after graduation and his dad told us, boys, you dont go into forestry for the money you do it for the love of the profession.
I wish you all the best whatever path you take.

[farmfromkansas]

Before you spend a lot of effort and money pursuing a career, check out the job opportunities and pay of your target career.  Colleges are great at marketing their services and do not care whether you do well after you get your degree.  Just look at your earlier degree and where you work now.  HVAC is a good career, and you have a job with the best benefits and retirement known to man.

[Old Nate]

Before you spend a lot of effort and money pursuing a career, check out the job opportunities and pay of your target career.  Colleges are great at marketing their services and do not care whether you do well after you get your degree.  Just look at your earlier degree and where you work now.  HVAC is a good career, and you have a job with the best benefits and retirement known to man.

Trust me I have considered that and then some. It adds up to do I want to do something about it, or stay where I'm at... I've been wanting to make a change for a long time now.  Change is scary. But, in a perfect world I actually go for it... 

[kantuckid]

Old Nate-I sent you a PM today-sort of a better late than never PM at that :D. I was a career counselor for many years and been around the block myself after 4 careers I went back to college at age 30 and did my last in education. 

[mike_belben]

So what have you decided nate?

[kantuckid]

I got no response from my PM so far...

[submarinesailor]

If you haven't already done so,  PLEASE go see a VA counselor.  They should be able to help you on the money end.

Bruce

[Edvantage]

Too old? I'm 51 and have been fabricator/machinist/machine builder since high school. I have 10 kids 9 at home and am switching careers. I have loved what I do and have no regrets but am just ready for a change. 37 is young go for it!

[Walnut Beast]

No Way!! Your only as old as you think you are. It's never to late to start

[kantuckid]

We are talking to each other as the OP has never showed up...
Ten kids-wow. I wish my tax return had your deductions. Reminds me of the guy I worked with when I was single and making great money then giving much of it back to the government! His name was Mosey Marlow and he ran the Smoker Room in the meat packing plant where he and I worked. Mosey had 7 or 8 kids and thus paid no income tax. Little did I realize then, that I actually had more disposable income than did he. 

Some people I used to work with would like to talk about their investments and what was making them money. I once quipped that "all my money was invested in Nike shoes" which was sort of true (real shoes not stocks, of course :D) what with us having three teenagers driving, in HS & college at the same time. 
People should make a career change if it doesn't mess up other people in doing so and keeps their life in gear too. Just watch out what your wishing for!  

[ppine]

Some years ago I was contemplating moving to British Columbia where forestry is still their biggest industry.   My close friend got wind of this idea and his question was "I wonder if they are hiring any old foresters?"

Now I am 70 and drink Old Forester. 

Are you fit?  Can you keep up with people younger than you are?  Working in the field means you have to be able to climb the hills. 

[Mean Dean]

I was 40 and married with 2 elementary school children when I starter college. For 4 years you seldom saw me without a book bag as there was always homework to do or something that I needed to read if I had a few minutes. 25 years later I am very happy that I went.

[Ron Scott]

A great experience!

[Old Nate]

Hi guys, I never did go to school to study forestry. Life moved on. I coach my kids baseball team. Put an addition on the house. My wife got pretty scared at the thought of me going back to school and making basically no money at all. And honestly, I did too. I still think about it, would love to find a company, preferably government job so I can keep my pension, that would give me a chance, start at the low end, but I haven't seriously looked either. Just got stuck in the doldrums of life. I have cut a lot of trees down in the past year... 

[Iwawoodwork]

There are many different types of jobs with public agencies, local city, county, state, that are not college degree level. If you go on line and look at all of the different job listings, there are many that do not require an advanced degree.   There grounds keepers, road crews, mechanics, custodians, building maintenance and many others. 

[Tyler17232ax]

See if Mississippi State can help you,

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D

Thank you. Missisipy is the king! It has not yet disappointed. 

[kantuckid]

The one fact about government jobs, especially state jobs is they mostly pay little-guess how I know this. KY this week, our guv has gone on a salary kick to find and hire social workers and juvenile justice workers by jumping the start pay up to low-mid 30's . Thos are and have been the two highest turnover jobs in KY state government for many years. Teachers are a maybe for higher pay but I've never seen it be logical yet here. State trooper start pay here is getting a 25K annual boost. Nursing very much in demand but nothing new there as that was true a long ways back as well. Scholarships are being added along with nursing schools sharing vacancies with each other but real people with kids, a home and bills, etc. even if free school was a reality-"like Joe says", the bills still keep coming for people like the OP. As a tech school admission guy I talked to adults nearly every day and the glaring issue wasn't financial aid it was how to pay the bills while in attendance. 
My own salvation to return to school at age 30 was fact that my wife was irregular, and we had no kids yet. :D
 
State jobs don't help the OP keep his federal retirement going though. He's already near the age limit for a federal corrections job with no degree. 
Federal jobs can be much higher pay in comparison to state jobs but very location oriented-like most jobs really. If the OP's military skill sets translated directly to civilian work-then he'd be in luck. There's a reason many who leave the military go directly into civilian jobs by living near a base to allow such work that can pay well w/o a degree, plus have fed retirement. Our Navy son became far more emplyable based on Navy nuclear engineering added to his civil eng.. Our oldest son's pilots skills translated to his continued civilian flying, his eng deg matters less for him to work as a pilot than his aircraft certifications. 
OP-good luck being satisfied in your work.  

[metalspinner]

It's never too late. My mom started college at age 50 - the same year I started college. Imagine my surprise that she signed up in the same elective class I was in!😂😆

It took her 8 years of part time enrollment, but she graduated with bachelors in business. 

Everyone's reasons for a degree are different. I think for Mom it was about personal development. My older sister was the first in our entire family to graduate, I was the second, and Mom was the third. 

[kantuckid]

I my own case, the degree was only a ticket to something next inline. It held no aura of greatness, never was the thing that my journeymens card was too me. I've got 3 or 4 of them and never been to a college graduation as I had better things to do. I did see my kids graduate though but it was no surprise either. 
Thats a neat story about your Mom! My Mom took up golf about that same age and played until she got cancer. My Dad, a professional athlete wouldn't play at all. After WWII he just stopped sports-mostly as he did play softball some at the highest levels. 
I'm certain that many of those folks I gave the GED test were prouder of their diplomas than I was of my degrees. After 13 years, it was "anti-climactic" for me. and time to move on. I'll admit that I was sort of proud to graduate summa cum laude after managing to flunk out twice :D 

[Iwawoodwork]

Kantuck,  yes public agency employment may start low depending on the persons skill level in the particular field and/ or how bad the agency needs a position filled, but the person generally has to ask about higher pay.  Also need to look ahead, when I went to work for the state of Oregon I started near the bottom of my classification, but we got annual raises and in 5-6 years my wage level was good plus excellent benefits. the Pension and benefits and long term job security until retirement age were a major reason for leaving the private sector. Also, unlike the private sector the agency (OR-OSHA) I worked for was a lot less concerned about age than much of the private sector. 

[kantuckid]

Not to seem all knowing but I was/am, in fact well informed and a career counselor FT.  I was also a state employee and the pay was meager at all levels unless a patronage job. In reality I was an extremely rare bird in education, a counselor with real world of work experiences. Most go into it as a pay jump plus a ticket out of the classroom. Simply said, I've been around the block. Ask about higher pay?  :D

Here's ya an e.g.- at my last vo-tech school job nearing the end of my educational venture (around 1999) that lasted 27 years (my 5th career) I was making ~ $58-59k. The lady who was supposedly over the state tech school counselors after we'd just been taken over by the new system replacing KY's community colleges came to visit me & my school. She was a PHd and making the rounds, as it were. I asked around after I'd met with her and learned that her job paid her $93,000 to start and the factoid I also knew was that she'd never set foot in a school before nor provided services to a single real student.
Is that what you meant about asking about higher pay? ;D
When I quit and went to a public county system as a HS principal I made $64 k that next year. Of course a HS principal has more days in their contract and works night and day, so by the hour it wasn't much for a nearly 700 student HS.
Ky state employees in merit jobs were mostly all in one or the other regular retirement systems. Having jumped ship to be a juvy superintendent I had 4+ years in the regular and the balance in teacher retirement so I got a full teacher and a partial regual system retirement. My wife has 20 in teacher and a few in regular for when she was a teacher/principal in a correctional/prison school. Our 4 checks allow us to live like kings because we are very self contained & conservative too. I'm also a very rare person that gets any SS at all while drawing a government pension. But, it's about 30% of a full SS check-my wife gets 100% cause her university group voted to pay into both systems. I retired age 58.
Private sector -I know about that one. Lots more money there by quantum leaps and bounds. My oldest son makes more than the state superintendent of schools flying his helo.
BTW, we have state OSHA in KY as well.
OR- I applied there in 1974 when I finally finished college. they actually sent me a form letter asking me to not come there as they had too many people coming already, true story. CO was much the same deal-Boulder told me they had 3,000 applicants for every opening. I kind of stumbled into staying here in KY, which was one of my choices to begin with.
State jobs and security is somewhat of a mis-nomer IMO. In Vo-tech they open/close programs all the time and many are contract employees now, not in a merit retirement job. Here today, gone end of contract. 401K thing nowdays if you can stay working.

[Iwawoodwork]

Well I guess my 20 years with OR-OSHA was a better experience than yours in Kentuck. I was fortunate, never saw any lay offs but saw some bump backs and the agency always found places for those affected. I worked as a senior inspector, field office mgr. and Region manager and yes I was paid a little less than the private sector but never lost my job due to closures, company buy outs, or doing away with a section.  or because the new manager/owner/ceo wanted their own people in place. I previously had worked 22 years for Weyerhaeuser and saw what happened to their supervisors, safety managers and employees when they shut down operations in the 1980's, for most it was out the door and have a nice life. Those higher salaries don't mean much when unemployed.

[kantuckid]

I just wrote something that told the political stuff then deleted it. Dirty laundry it is or was. When I finally got a HS principals job as my last gig- my sons said "finally Dad" as they knew what took place. I'd told them if they ever applied for a state job I'd sabotage them as a favor :D
The irony is the same stuff happened in KS to my own Dad. From WWII to retirement in ~ 1979 he became the DMV truck dept boss but because he'd not play politics, he never went as high as he should. The week after he retired his position left the merit system and a used car jockey replaced him at twice the pay as an appointment. 
For me it was the good, the bad and the ugly, like the movie...

[kantuckid]

Note that I've used an Army buddy who worked for Weyerhauser and quit as my e.g. of changing careers on this forum. They stuck him at a desk after 6 months of trees in the forest deluxe then a desk so and he quit. Changed to being a PT who worked weekends like 3 on, 4 off, then off to fish and hunt all week. Which was when the draft came and he took his ROTC commission active. We fished our way all over GA & SC from Fort Gordon, GA. Life was good cause I met my wife in Augusta, GA one night at The Partridge INN.  

[BCCrouch]

Salary: foresters don't make great money. Your wife will definitely being going back to nursing either half-time or full-time because it's not just the two of you. Kids are expensive to raise and both vocational and formal educations are budget-busters these days. Are you OK with the idea of your wife's career being the one that takes priority when one of the kids is sick and needs to be tended at home? Nurses make [bleeping] fine money and foresters don't--smaller paychecks get stuck at home so the bread-winners get to keep on winning the bread.

Benefits: acceptable in government, often mediocre in the private sector. You'll likely be better off tapping into those of your wife once she's back to full-time work.

Co-workers and boss: are you prepared to be a 40-something greenhorn, a noobie with grey hair, doing the work of a freshly degreed forester who is supposed to be in his early twenties? Can you tolerate being a 44-year-old man being treated as a 22-year-old youngster? The age on your driving license carries no weight. Time in the field matters.

Location: does raising your three children in a two-stoplight town appeal to your wife? Foresters don't start at the DNR, USFS, or corporate headquarters with all of the amenities they might desire within a twenty-mile radius, and this includes good-quality hospitals. Living in a twerpy town of 1,500 on the rump-end of nowhere is not a preference many people acquire over time. They either like it or they don't according to the peculiarities of their personality and where they were raised.

[kantuckid]

My Army buddy who I used for many years when I was a career counselor-one of the reasons he was attracted to forestry was derived from having a Dad who took him fishing and hunting in the wild places he came to love. So, he chose forestry and worked in one of those somewhat remote locales and a happy guy until they jerked him into an urban setting and married him to a desk. Thats when he switched to a career that gave him many days off to head for the woods. 
Another friend of ours was an advertising guy in KS and we canoed KS rivers together with him and our wives. Sam Cook tired fast of desk work and became a foremost, syndicated outdoor writer based in Duluth, MN for the rest of his family and work life, fishing, hunting and such his way through life. The obvious point to be taken is forestry is far from the only way to skin that cat of an outdoor fetish for being in the woods. 
The age factor I've talked with hundreds if not thousands of people about as an admissions counselor talking to young and older people. When young any number of jobs that result in a forced career change mean that age is an important pause to think for anyone as it may slap you in the face later. Military careers & law enforcement are two prime e.g.'s as are some heavy construction jobs such as roofer or concrete work. During covid the newer e.g. might be medical careers? I can see a respiratory therapist tiring of the death around them?  The odds of a person doing some things for years to come are physically wishful thinking. Many jobs have a short expiration date!- not just being an athlete which was my main aspiration in life! times a million... :D
When I was young, I read the Topeka-Capitol newspaper and in the business section were the common Santa Fe RR retirements. Very common to see a guy who'd started as a mail boy in their big office bldg. there and later becoming a self made man an after 50 years of hustle retiring form the only employer they ever had. Forget that stuff in the world at hand!  
Having a life plan is the far-sighted thing to do but when were young most of us are that live forever person we enjoy being at that moment.