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Honoring the Dead, Things we do.

Started by Runningalucas, February 15, 2021, 11:22:43 PM

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Runningalucas

Hi All,

I'm really bad about not taking photos of different things I do, or experience for that matter.  In many ways, I kinda feel like my 'stuff' is for myself alone, god, and cosmos.  My mom died back in 13', and had a long slow road to that death date.  In trying to honor her, and be proactive in not only her hospital care, but also nursing care, well I had a lot of hard lessons.  I unfortunately learned you better be proactive as most people in any given profession are just cashing checks rather than being professional, or caring. 

That care for life, turned to dealing with the business of death, and the preparation for what all of us will face at some point.  I learned a great deal about the funeral industry, and the predatory practices there in.  The average cost of a funeral in my area is around $8k; I think nationally today, $12k would be average.  The cost of a cheap plywood casket at the funeral home can still hit a grand easily.  I also learned most cemeteries are about as close to a toxic wasteland as you can get, but the entire funeral industry gets a 'pass' from OSHA, as well as the EPA, but to continue...

My mom knew she was dying, it was made more difficult do to my brother being slow.  My father wasn't handling her dwindling very well, and it basically left me to deal with most things.  What to do???, I grabbed it by the horns, and made it an adventure for my brother, and I.  My dad would never go around 'our project', he kept his distance.  My mom on the other hand, I think knowing it was helping my brother through the processing of it all, did take an active part in at least the planning. 

The 1st casket is what my brother, and I made her.  It's rough sawn lumber from our property.  At first, I was going to make it completely out of wood; as we were planning on a 'green funeral', and used titebond glue, and biscuit joinery throughout.  Nearing the end of the work, and standing inside the casket at the head, I had a moment of almost shame, as in lack of respect for standing where my mom's head would lay, and I realized, I better have this right, or else bad stuff can happen; so added brass screws to all hand holds to make sure her body didn't come rolling out at some point. 

It sounds morbid, but building a casket is working around a few different things; of course the size of the body, and weight, but also ground pressure; as there was no casket liner used.  For myself, it was at times therapeutic, and at times hitting the macabre; building a box for dead weight you care about can be difficult.  

The 2nd casket below, I've got even less photos of the build, but again from trees from the property.  This one was for my dad, gut cancer ate him up.  His last couple years were a nightmare; he was in denial, and in trying to get him help, I blurted out to a few Oncologists that I thought their ideas of treatment were better suited for a horror movie, lol  But I digress. 

When my mom died, I was out of country for an extended time, and it was during "Swine Flu"; flights weren't really moving at that time in Central America.  My brother, and father had to bury my mom; it still sucks, and I'm reminded every time I see his face in the photos at the cemetery. 

My dad died I think 2 years back now, thank god not in January, but in May.  His burial was much easier without the snow.  I let my brother stay home this last time, and kept him for the most part sheltered away from having to deal with any of it.  He's better now, and so am I; moving on with life, and the living. 

All said, and done, both funerals each cost around $3k.  We buried both of my parents in simple burial shrouds/wraps. There was some mandatory regulations concerning length of time in coolers, and other odd ball crap that benefited the funeral home; which added to the cost, actually a great deal of the overall cost went to them, but as you can see from the pictures, both were simple affairs.

The mountain cemetery they're buried in had an interesting start.  It was private land, but the sheriff around 1895 was called out for a body hanging from a cedar tree.  It was putrefying, and no one wanted to touch it.  So they called the land owner, asked if they could dig a hole right there at the base of the tree, cut the rope, and let the body drop in... Well, the owner donated the land to the small town nearby that didn't have a cemetery for some reason, and that tree today has a plaque on it marking the grave.  It's a BEAUTIFUL spot, and the plots are only a few hundred bucks.  My mom's tombstone we bought had to bleed the turnips from my 'two eldest, and well to do siblings' to help pay for it. With my dad trying to avoid another 'please help us pay' session with my 2 oldest siblings, his tombstone is still a work in slow progress, as my brother, and I are making it; I figure I've got from now, till the time I die to finish it, and I know he's not going anywhere, so all good lol.

Figured I'd share something that's been very personal for a long time, and how I've honored my dead. 

Anyone else do similar?

Thanks for reading!




































Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

Ljohnsaw

My wife had breast cancer that spread over the course of 5 years.  We talked about "the end" a few times and she absolutely did not want a service/viewing and wanted her ashes spread at our favorite "secret" beach just south of San Francisco.  I pre-arranged with the funeral home what she wanted.  Sounds bad to say it now but she did not want extra expenses.  So, no embalming, no casket (just a cardboard box), right into the crematorium.  The funeral home guy was a little taken aback about not buying a coffin or fancy urn from him but made it a point to tell me the medallion that identified her body/ashes was going to be placed on top of the ashes rather than mixed in.  I was to remove it before spreading the ashes so I wouldn't get in to trouble.

We had a gathering at the ocean that included 2 of her 4 sisters and one niece, 5 out of my 6 siblings (and spouses) and my two kids (19 and 6).  Both of our parents were already gone.  Afterwards was a nice dinner at one of our favorite restaurant in that area.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Walnut Beast

You definitely did a nice job and it sounds like a beautiful place they are at. Thanks for sharing 

Sedgehammer

Very beautiful job. I wood say you have done your parents proud. I know we all wish we did this or that once they are gone, but we only can do what we can do. That's it.

Looks like a beautiful spot where they lay. 

I have a story with my mom passing you can look it up if you want https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=112586.msg1765419#msg1765419

I'll get cremated. I would like some of my ashes kept by my wife (maybe morbid, but just the thought of not being with her is hard), some spread on our land, some on the beach and some buried with her. That's what i want. What i get.........
Necessity is the engine of drive

farmfromkansas

Suppose I should get busy and build a couple caskets while I am still able.  Had a neighbor who did not like getting ripped off, had his body cremated, and they drilled a hole at the cemetery on one of his brother's grave sites, and put his urn in it.  He laughed how he got off cheap for his burial. Poor guy had parkinsons, and said the first 10 years weren't bad with it.  
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Don P

A friend who was dying asked that I build him a casket and figure out the details, my next call was to several more of his friends and we got together, several bringing wood he had given them over the years. We had the same realizations over the weight and not wanting anything to break. We were under the same time constraints for a green burial, on a piece of land another of his friends had donated. There was a lot of reading, forms and rules. We had staged the casket near the hospice he was in and the boys down the mountain took care of that and preparing the hole. On the morning when the phone call came I called one of the boys down the mountain and started calling around up here, and we headed down the mountain. I had forgotten to throw in timbers to span the hole which left us handing the casket across the pit. My buddy Rick, knowing I had a bad shoulder, reached too far and I saw in his face it cost him, not a proud moment but it all worked out. In hindsight I should have staged everything in the woods nearby so I didn't have to remember stuff on that day. 



 

 

Our funeral industry began during the Civil War, preserving and bringing soldiers home. They held on to that job afterwards, writing legislation that favored the occupation and we were largely happy to let them. Prior to that time a home had a parlor, one of that room's functions was the preparation and viewing of the deceased. After the funeral parlor took over that function, the large front room in a home became known as the "living room".

Sedgehammer

Quote from: Don P on February 16, 2021, 08:18:49 AM
A friend who was dying asked that I build him a casket and figure out the details, my next call was to several more of his friends and we got together, several bringing wood he had given them over the years. We had the same realizations over the weight and not wanting anything to break. We were under the same time constraints for a green burial, on a piece of land another of his friends had donated. There was a lot of reading, forms and rules. We had staged the casket near the hospice he was in and the boys down the mountain took care of that and preparing the hole. On the morning when the phone call came I called one of the boys down the mountain and started calling around up here, and we headed down the mountain. I had forgotten to throw in timbers to span the hole which left us handing the casket across the pit. My buddy Rick, knowing I had a bad shoulder, reached too far and I saw in his face it cost him, not a proud moment but it all worked out. In hindsight I should have staged everything in the woods nearby so I didn't have to remember stuff on that day.



 

 

Our funeral industry began during the Civil War, preserving and bringing soldiers home. They held on to that job afterwards, writing legislation that favored the occupation and we were largely happy to let them. Prior to that time a home had a parlor, one of that room's functions was the preparation and viewing of the deceased. After the funeral parlor took over that function, the large front room in a home became known as the "living room".
Your friend had good friends. 
Necessity is the engine of drive

JuanChair

@Runningalucas,

Thank you for your personal story and the wonderful pictures of the casket.  I think you have posted a wonderful thought provoking thread here.   I didn't want to come off as sounding morbid but I have a real interest in casket making. 

I was going to start my chair business and get that going but was at the same time going to create a side business of fabricating wooden caskets.   Never really felt comfortable talking about caskets themselves or the sensitive nature of death but your thread here has helped me in that, so thank you. 

@Don P I really like how you created the side rail bar (handle) along the casket.  

Maybe we can honor all our dead by keeping this thread alive and sharing what we all know on casket making including things you've learned through trial and error or simply the requirements of weight and structural needs of a wooden casket.   

Does anyone else have pictures of wooden caskets they have seen or made. Any suggestions on casket making or joints to use, etc.     Thank you in advance. 

Runningalucas

Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 16, 2021, 12:38:05 AM
You definitely did a nice job and it sounds like a beautiful place they are at. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for the compliment, appreciated. 
Quote
My wife had breast cancer that spread over the course of 5 years.  We talked about "the end" a few times and she absolutely did not want a service/viewing and wanted her ashes spread at our favorite "secret" beach just south of San Francisco.  I pre-arranged with the funeral home what she wanted.  Sounds bad to say it now but she did not want extra expenses.  So, no embalming, no casket (just a cardboard box), right into the crematorium.  The funeral home guy was a little taken aback about not buying a coffin or fancy urn from him but made it a point to tell me the medallion that identified her body/ashes was going to be placed on top of the ashes rather than mixed in.  I was to remove it before spreading the ashes so I wouldn't get in to trouble.

We had a gathering at the ocean that included 2 of her 4 sisters and one niece, 5 out of my 6 siblings (and spouses) and my two kids (19 and 6).  Both of our parents were already gone.  Afterwards was a nice dinner at one of our favorite restaurant in that area.
i can totally respect your wife's wishes.  My parents were the same way.  My oldest brother wanted to spend a lot of my parent's money for their burial.  I asked him what the difference was between the cemetery with $1k plots, and mandatory liners, as opposed to the $300 plots, and no liners. 

It boiled down to what he thought others would 'respect', and I was like, 'it matters what those involved want, and where they're wanting to go'. 
It sounds like you honored your wife's wishes, and found some peace for both of ya'll.
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

Runningalucas

Quote from: Sedgehammer on February 16, 2021, 01:30:42 AM
Very beautiful job. I wood say you have done your parents proud. I know we all wish we did this or that once they are gone, but we only can do what we can do. That's it.

Looks like a beautiful spot where they lay.

I have a story with my mom passing you can look it up if you want https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=112586.msg1765419#msg1765419

I'll get cremated. I would like some of my ashes kept by my wife (maybe morbid, but just the thought of not being with her is hard), some spread on our land, some on the beach and some buried with her. That's what i want. What i get.........
I clicked through, and realized I've been reading your thread here, and there for a while lol  It sounds like we could be related!  I noted that you've got saved voicemail, and I do the same; got several saved voicemails.  It's kinda weird, and I definitely forget about them, but when I stumble across them, it's always nice.  I'd think our modern technology in regards to leaving a lasting memory is great; especially for people who're  what appear to be taken early, and want to leave more for those who they love.  Thank you for your thoughts.


Quote from: farmfromkansas on February 16, 2021, 06:37:11 AM
Suppose I should get busy and build a couple caskets while I am still able.  Had a neighbor who did not like getting ripped off, had his body cremated, and they drilled a hole at the cemetery on one of his brother's grave sites, and put his urn in it.  He laughed how he got off cheap for his burial. Poor guy had parkinsons, and said the first 10 years weren't bad with it.  
HAHAHA, I like your neighbor; grabbed life by the horns it sounds like.  Re: building a couple caskets, I found it to be quite satisfying, and it gave me a lot of time to learn about an industry most overlook, and avoid.  There are many people who'd benefit from doing the same; saying goodbye shouldn't cost 'the bank'.  I don't think anything about death should be about money, then again, there are a lot of folks who'll easily spend $25k just to 'stay up with the Jones's.  Thanks for posting.

Quote from: Don P on February 16, 2021, 08:18:49 AM
A friend who was dying asked that I build him a casket and figure out the details, my next call was to several more of his friends and we got together, several bringing wood he had given them over the years. We had the same realizations over the weight and not wanting anything to break. We were under the same time constraints for a green burial, on a piece of land another of his friends had donated. There was a lot of reading, forms and rules. We had staged the casket near the hospice he was in and the boys down the mountain took care of that and preparing the hole. On the morning when the phone call came I called one of the boys down the mountain and started calling around up here, and we headed down the mountain. I had forgotten to throw in timbers to span the hole which left us handing the casket across the pit. My buddy Rick, knowing I had a bad shoulder, reached too far and I saw in his face it cost him, not a proud moment but it all worked out. In hindsight I should have staged everything in the woods nearby so I didn't have to remember stuff on that day.



 

 

Our funeral industry began during the Civil War, preserving and bringing soldiers home. They held on to that job afterwards, writing legislation that favored the occupation and we were largely happy to let them. Prior to that time a home had a parlor, one of that room's functions was the preparation and viewing of the deceased. After the funeral parlor took over that function, the large front room in a home became known as the "living room".
That's a beautiful casket ya'll built your friend; I can see ya'll put a lot of thought into it.  It's funny how a loved one, or someone cared about in many ways during casket construction become more of a 'unit' for calculation, and planning, rather than just 'who they are'.  I mean those details actually come into play as well, in trying to honor them; after all, I think that's what it's about....  I guess that, and not having the embarrassment, and whoops of a failed box at the time of burial lol 

Since doing those two caskets, I've had several friends, and relatives talk about wanting similar type burials; as they'd rather their respective families have the money over a fancy send off.  To myself, there's nothing more honorable, than taking an active role in the process; nothing more 'fancy' than that actually. 

I may borrow a little bit of your design of a casket some time.  They really are fascinating to build, and all the different possible designs.  My mom's I had no real idea of where, or how I wanted to build it, and it just worked out; my father's, I definitely went with what I saw as an improved 'Old West' type casket with Jute rope handles. 

On that note, discussing the boards for the casket, yes, for my mom's we had boards, but as you can see with my father's we didn't.  It also cost a good friend a few days of recuperation; as he was the guy on the far end next to the dirt pile who almost dropped it as it came across the hole; he was alright though lol
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

Runningalucas

Quote from: JuanChair on February 16, 2021, 09:01:16 AM
@Runningalucas,

Thank you for your personal story and the wonderful pictures of the casket.  I think you have posted a wonderful thought provoking thread here.   I didn't want to come off as sounding morbid but I have a real interest in casket making.  

I was going to start my chair business and get that going but was at the same time going to create a side business of fabricating wooden caskets.   Never really felt comfortable talking about caskets themselves or the sensitive nature of death but your thread here has helped me in that, so thank you.  

@Don P I really like how you created the side rail bar (handle) along the casket.  

Maybe we can honor all our dead by keeping this thread alive and sharing what we all know on casket making including things you've learned through trial and error or simply the requirements of weight and structural needs of a wooden casket.    

Does anyone else have pictures of wooden caskets they have seen or made. Any suggestions on casket making or joints to use, etc.     Thank you in advance.
@JuanChair ,
You're name reminds me of "Juan Valdez" of that older coffee commercial, in a good way of course lol  Regarding caskets, and business.  Yes, I've thought of it often enough.  I know a few carpenters that will build a few 1 time knockoffs when business gets slow. 
There are several mom, and pop 'old style' casket makers out there.  Many people love the idea of rustic handmade/custom caskets.
I've got no idea about down there, but here some states allow you to sell them without issue, while others require caskets, or coffins(six sided toe kickers) to only be sold by licensed funeral directors.  It seems the easy bypass for those regulations is to sell them as a novelty item should it be to one of those states that doesn't allow it. 
In researching caskets, and all, I ran across a monastery I believe down in Louisiana.  They'd been building custom one off caskets for a while, and then started having orders, and requests to the point it turned into a business.  They got scolded I think in their own state, and so now sell to out of state customers. 
It's a good business, funeral homes I think are somewhat 'networked', and only buy from their distributors, then add heavy mark ups.  I remember seeing a plywood casket with staples go for around a grand, and the cardboard caskets were still a few hundred; for a boxlol. 
So there's room, and it's showing as you can find micro niche businesses selling them online here, and there.
Both of my parents caskets cost me less than $100 bucks a piece; that also included the cost of miscellaneous blades, or bits, or xyz that can be used several times over.
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

mike_belben

Since we are contemplating death, it seems timely to share a fitting quip that i heard recently and hope to not lose sight of.  


"Youll never see a Uhaul hitched up to a hearse."  


Meaning you cant take that junk with ya on your final relocation. 
Praise The Lord

SawyerTed

I completely understand how there is a fine line between appropriately honoring our loved ones who pass and unnecessarily spending money in the name of honoring them.

My mom died January 15 after a bout with non-COVID-19 pneumonia and vascular dementia.  The business side of things can definitely get out of hand.  Thankfully she planned and communicated her wishes so all dad and I had to do was carry out her instructions.  Knowing her plans made dealing with the business stuff easier and we have been able to honor her through carrying out what she wanted.  The grieving of her death hasn't been easier or harder because of her plans but it helped keep from spending money on things that weren't necessary and we didn't have to agonize over or debate (I have a brother and sister) decisions.   Just one example is funeral homes will gladly sell an expensive casket for a cremation, we opted for the $99 "cremation casket" (cardboard container). Another is the high prices for urns or boxes for ashes (I'm building matching cherry boxes for both mom's and dad's ashes).  Our expenses even with modest spending have been more than $3k but does not include the prepaid expenses at the cemetery (more of mom's planning). We could have spend several times that but that's exactly what mom did not want!  Spending more than necessary would actually dishonor her more.

If there is one thing I've learned from mom's death (there have been many), one of the most loving kindnesses you can do for those who will handle your arrangements is to communicate your wishes and pre-arrange as much as possible.  Thankfully she preferred things to be simple but appropriate. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

JuanChair


@Runningalucas 

Thank you for your response.  My idea for making caskets was to simply create only one style and try to assembly line produce them in low numbers.   I would make blue prints or patterns for each part and simply make all the parts I needed for 10 caskets and built them out.  Sell them and repeat the process only increasing the number of units if demand increased.  

I want to create a very nice looking wooden casket but at a very reasonable cost.  Trust me there is a huge need for caskets down here so there wont be a lack of business but there are also a lot of poor people who deserve a nice product.   There are no regulatory statues on caskets out here or rules for the funeral homes.  

Also out here every small pueblo has its own community cemetery and free burial plots for anyone living in each town.  So when a person dies they get a free burial plot and the family members often dig the grave.   The body lays in viewing at the family home and not at a funeral home.  The cost for funerals here are the embalming (if you opt for that) the religious equipment rental such as the large candle holders and kneeling bench, and of course the casket.    Depending on what the family spends on the casket is the majority of the costs. 

I guess I need to get my wood shop finished first.  So many irons in the fire. 

Will.K

Two moving things (in very different ways) to read on this topic:

The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford 
The short story Fidelity from the book Fidelity, by Wendell Berry



Lko67

Wasn't watching and posted this in another message lol.  I told my wife I wanted cremated so she could put me in the trunk of her car so when she gets stuck I could help her one more time. 
I joke but everyone should have that discussion as hard as it is. We know what each other wants and have wills so things go where wanted and don't forget to update as you gather more stuff and get older.

WV Sawmiller

   I have a buddy who retired as a county maintenance and highway worker. I always told him if he dies first I am going to have him cremated and mix his ashes in a batch of cement and go fill potholes around the county so I can tell people I know one county employee who is doing something useful for the county. I got the idea when I saw a special from folks down in Fla who scuba dive and when a buddy dies they mix his ashes in cement and pour a dome about 4' high and diameter with a bunch of access holes, a brass name plate and a lifting eye. They load them on a barge and take them out in the Gulf of Mexico where they like to scuba dive and lower them down. They showed pictures after a few years and they were covered in coral and fish and other sea critter had made them their homes and it seemed like a fitting tribute.

   My 91 y/o mom has an absolute fit every time she hears of someone in the family or friend who is cremated. She has been in the Eastern Star for many, many years and wants to be buried with a big Eastern Star funeral so I guess that is what we will do. Dad already had vaults down and grave markers in place just waiting on the death dates when he died. He had a family monument business for 60 years or so I guess and got a stone Mom liked so he used that.

   I've told my family and friends to cremate me and mix some of the ashes in the deer feeders at both my shooting houses so I get scattered where I enjoyed my time on earth and take the rest and put them in the live well of my boat, pull the drain plug out and run up and down Bluestone Lake till they all wash out. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

thecfarm

Not to be mean, but I feel funerals can be for the ones alive to make them feel better. When My Mother passed I saw some that if they would of visited my Mother when she was alive I would hear, Guess who came to see me? for a month.  ;D 
I was there when my parents needed me.
 And I was there at the end too.
I see no need to spend $1000's to make me feel better.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Don P

When my friend saw the casket he said "Y'all need to roll me out and get another use out of that, its too pretty to bury"  :D

We ran a strip of wood around the sides and ends under the bottom to support the bottom better, and cross pieces at several places under the bottom boards, everything was glued and screwed. The rail holders also hold the side boards together and there is more reinforcement of the sides on the inside. Mainly remember you are carrying it from the sides but the weight is on the bottom. We used a bunch of dense hardwoods and it is obviously too deep, this all made it heavy. I came to appreciate the simple pine box.

Howard's story reminds me of one my Father in law told. A friend was cremated and wanted his ashes spread offshore where they all had fun fishing. Sure enough as they poured his ashes over the side, a gust of wind blew him right back in the boat.



Sedgehammer

Quote from: thecfarm on February 16, 2021, 08:30:20 PM
Not to be mean, but I feel funerals can be for the ones alive to make them feel better. When My Mother passed I saw some that if they would of visited my Mother when she was alive I would hear, Guess who came to see me? for a month.  ;D
I was there when my parents needed me.
And I was there at the end too.
I see no need to spend $1000's to make me feel better.
Not mean at all. It's a fact. Those that passed are gone. Funerals are for the living. Some to say good bye. Some to feel absolved for something. Some to say better you than me.
I told my wife I don't want one. Just cremate me and take care of the ashes.
Necessity is the engine of drive

Sedgehammer

Quote from: Don P on February 16, 2021, 09:58:35 PM
Howard's story reminds me of one my Father in law told. A friend was cremated and wanted his ashes spread offshore where they all had fun fishing. Sure enough as they poured his ashes over the side, a gust of wind blew him right back in the boat.
I guess he wanted to be with his friends and not in the water.  :)
Necessity is the engine of drive

mike_belben

Treat me good while im alive. When im off this God forsaken earth i dont give a dang what you do with me.  
Praise The Lord

Ianab

There was a news article recently about an old local farmer that told his family he wanted to be cremated on the family farm. Sons bought the body home, build a BIG funeral pyre around the coffin (whole trees and assorted logs) and lit it all off. Apparently it burnt for 3 days  ;D

Turns out it's totally legal to do that here, as long as you are out in the country, and you have to ensure you have a big enough fire to do the job. And the Police would like to be notified, otherwise they hear that someone is "burning a body", and have to investigate. They did call in to see this family, looked at the 50ft circle of smouldering ash, the legal death certificate, and it was all cool as far as they were concerned. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

dougtrr2

My plan is to build a box for my cremated remains.  Then I want my ashes spread in my forest.  After the ashes are spread, break up the box and use the kindling to start a fire for a wienie roast. ;D

I have been know to start a small fire just so I can have a wienie roast for myself.  When the grandkids come visit we have at least one, more if they want.  It did my heart good when one grandson asked "Grandpa, can we eat outside again?"

Doug in SW IA

SawyerTed

Quote from: Sedgehammer on February 16, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on February 16, 2021, 08:30:20 PM
Not to be mean, but I feel funerals can be for the ones alive to make them feel better. When My Mother passed I saw some that if they would of visited my Mother when she was alive I would hear, Guess who came to see me? for a month.  ;D
I was there when my parents needed me.
And I was there at the end too.
I see no need to spend $1000's to make me feel better.
Not mean at all. It's a fact. Those that passed are gone. Funerals are for the living. Some to say good bye. Some to feel absolved for something. Some to say better you than me.
I told my wife I don't want one. Just cremate me and take care of the ashes.
It isn't mean.  It's being reasonable.  But just a cremation costs $2,700 here.  That's getting the ashes in a plastic bag encased in a basic plastic container.  No funeral home services beyond cremation.  It's the other required stuff that adds up.  In NC if you need a death certificate, that's $10 each - we needed several. It doesn't take long to spend 3 grand plus just doing the minimum.
Funerals ARE for the living/grieving.  It's part of the process.  But having seen some funerals become "productions" some people go way beyond the necessary.  A funeral I attended a couple of years ago with 5, FIVE, preachers comes to mind. One or two would have been plenty!
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Runningalucas

Quote from: Will.K on February 16, 2021, 07:05:38 PM
Two moving things (in very different ways) to read on this topic:

The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford
The short story Fidelity from the book Fidelity, by Wendell Berry



Thank You, and I'll check them out.  It's funny, in my brother's ER, he said many to most of his terminal patients beg to have their lives saved, want more time, or just express their fright in leaving.  It's sad, as it's just a fact of life, we're born, and then at some point we all die; it shouldn't be a scary mystery.

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 16, 2021, 08:18:00 PM
  I have a buddy who retired as a county maintenance and highway worker. I always told him if he dies first I am going to have him cremated and mix his ashes in a batch of cement and go fill potholes around the county so I can tell people I know one county employee who is doing something useful for the county. I got the idea when I saw a special from folks down in Fla who scuba dive and when a buddy dies they mix his ashes in cement and pour a dome about 4' high and diameter with a bunch of access holes, a brass name plate and a lifting eye. They load them on a barge and take them out in the Gulf of Mexico where they like to scuba dive and lower them down. They showed pictures after a few years and they were covered in coral and fish and other sea critter had made them their homes and it seemed like a fitting tribute.

  My 91 y/o mom has an absolute fit every time she hears of someone in the family or friend who is cremated. She has been in the Eastern Star for many, many years and wants to be buried with a big Eastern Star funeral so I guess that is what we will do. Dad already had vaults down and grave markers in place just waiting on the death dates when he died. He had a family monument business for 60 years or so I guess and got a stone Mom liked so he used that.

  I've told my family and friends to cremate me and mix some of the ashes in the deer feeders at both my shooting houses so I get scattered where I enjoyed my time on earth and take the rest and put them in the live well of my boat, pull the drain plug out and run up and down Bluestone Lake till they all wash out.
Sounds like your mother, and you have it worked out fairly well.  I'm glad you still got a momma too!  It's certainly different not having one at my age, and it's caused me to reflect more on those even younger who've lost their literal life long matriarch figure.  Best health to you, and yours!

Quote from: Lko67 on February 16, 2021, 07:57:30 PM
Wasn't watching and posted this in another message lol.  I told my wife I wanted cremated so she could put me in the trunk of her car so when she gets stuck I could help her one more time.
I joke but everyone should have that discussion as hard as it is. We know what each other wants and have wills so things go where wanted and don't forget to update as you gather more stuff and get older.
Great plan, and I don't think it's too morbid, or even awkward to have a request like that.  In all honesty, as long as your ashes worked, I think it'd make your wife happy.... Although, posting this in the wrong thread??? WHOOPS!lol  Thanks for sharing.

Quote from: SawyerTed on February 16, 2021, 03:37:21 PM
I completely understand how there is a fine line between appropriately honoring our loved ones who pass and unnecessarily spending money in the name of honoring them.

My mom died January 15 after a bout with non-COVID-19 pneumonia and vascular dementia.  The business side of things can definitely get out of hand.  Thankfully she planned and communicated her wishes so all dad and I had to do was carry out her instructions.  Knowing her plans made dealing with the business stuff easier and we have been able to honor her through carrying out what she wanted.  The grieving of her death hasn't been easier or harder because of her plans but it helped keep from spending money on things that weren't necessary and we didn't have to agonize over or debate (I have a brother and sister) decisions.   Just one example is funeral homes will gladly sell an expensive casket for a cremation, we opted for the $99 "cremation casket" (cardboard container). Another is the high prices for urns or boxes for ashes (I'm building matching cherry boxes for both mom's and dad's ashes).  Our expenses even with modest spending have been more than $3k but does not include the prepaid expenses at the cemetery (more of mom's planning). We could have spend several times that but that's exactly what mom did not want!  Spending more than necessary would actually dishonor her more.

If there is one thing I've learned from mom's death (there have been many), one of the most loving kindnesses you can do for those who will handle your arrangements is to communicate your wishes and pre-arrange as much as possible.  Thankfully she preferred things to be simple but appropriate.
I'm sorry about your Mom; so goes life, and time I guess.  In reading your post, it reminded me of an odd blessing in regards to my own mom's passing, and that was following different instructions she had given.  It gave me a perspective of her, as almost an 'outsider', or 'friend' rather than he son.  It was kinda awkward, but so nice to learn more about her thoughts, and feelings.  Thanks for sharing, and I'm really glad to hear you're making the urns; please share photos once done.

Quote from: thecfarm on February 16, 2021, 08:30:20 PM
Not to be mean, but I feel funerals can be for the ones alive to make them feel better. When My Mother passed I saw some that if they would of visited my Mother when she was alive I would hear, Guess who came to see me? for a month.  ;D
I was there when my parents needed me.
And I was there at the end too.
I see no need to spend $1000's to make me feel better.
I think you're correct.  Any, and all ways that works, is great.  Between parents, and dogs, I've lost a lot.  At some point, I figured why be sad, and am now more in tune with a 'celebration of life'.  Our loved ones are in a better place I think, and the sadness is ours alone to carry, and work through.  Part of that pain is due to unsaid things, and often times regrets over unfinished business.  I make no bones about it, at times I still talk to my parents, reach out, try to send love; I think there's a part of us that can still do that to some degree; feel, or communicate with those that have gone on.

Quote from: Don P on February 16, 2021, 09:58:35 PM
When my friend saw the casket he said "Y'all need to roll me out and get another use out of that, its too pretty to bury"  :D

We ran a strip of wood around the sides and ends under the bottom to support the bottom better, and cross pieces at several places under the bottom boards, everything was glued and screwed. The rail holders also hold the side boards together and there is more reinforcement of the sides on the inside. Mainly remember you are carrying it from the sides but the weight is on the bottom. We used a bunch of dense hardwoods and it is obviously too deep, this all made it heavy. I came to appreciate the simple pine box.

Howard's story reminds me of one my Father in law told. A friend was cremated and wanted his ashes spread offshore where they all had fun fishing. Sure enough as they poured his ashes over the side, a gust of wind blew him right back in the boat.



The last part about the ashes blowing back, lol lol lol  Looks like that friend got the last laugh! lol 

On that note, your entire post was cause for memories.  I too was stuck having to think through where to add extra support.  I'd get one component done, and have to think about all the different aspect, such as carrying the body, and weight there of at the bottom, while the lifting came from the sides, and as you see in my photos, I added plenty of bracing. 

The weight was always a major concern for me; not only the wood weight, but like my mom, was a heavy gal even after withering for a couple years.  Certainly an odd feeling having to calculate that stuff, I do say!  So, I went with Cedar, and pine for the lumber.  I think her casket weighed in around 150 pounds.  My dad's was a little lighter, and different design.  I used a biscuit joiner on her's, and on his it was a jig for 1/2" dowel pins; which I felt made a stronger connection than the biscuits did.

On that note, yes, my mom said her's was too pretty to put in the ground.  I told her she was worth it.
Quote from: JuanChair on February 16, 2021, 05:05:42 PM

@Runningalucas

Thank you for your response.  My idea for making caskets was to simply create only one style and try to assembly line produce them in low numbers.   I would make blue prints or patterns for each part and simply make all the parts I needed for 10 caskets and built them out.  Sell them and repeat the process only increasing the number of units if demand increased.  

I want to create a very nice looking wooden casket but at a very reasonable cost.  Trust me there is a huge need for caskets down here so there wont be a lack of business but there are also a lot of poor people who deserve a nice product.   There are no regulatory statues on caskets out here or rules for the funeral homes.  

Also out here every small pueblo has its own community cemetery and free burial plots for anyone living in each town.  So when a person dies they get a free burial plot and the family members often dig the grave.   The body lays in viewing at the family home and not at a funeral home.  The cost for funerals here are the embalming (if you opt for that) the religious equipment rental such as the large candle holders and kneeling bench, and of course the casket.    Depending on what the family spends on the casket is the majority of the costs.  

I guess I need to get my wood shop finished first.  So many irons in the fire.  
I think that's a great idea about making jigs for the caskets.  While building the 2 I've done, often I'd think about making jigs as so many of the boards are cut to the same length, and of course it would allow a more rapid 'piece' rate for the different components.

As far as material where you're at, it looks like they're few, and small trees. An option I've considered, and don't know the availability where you're at, is to use pallet wood.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 16, 2021, 03:00:29 PM
Since we are contemplating death, it seems timely to share a fitting quip that i heard recently and hope to not lose sight of.  


"Youll never see a Uhaul hitched up to a hearse."  


Meaning you cant take that junk with ya on your final relocation.

Great quote!  I think about that a lot.  Due to things I've experienced in my life, I do personally think we're spiritual in nature, and just borrowing the raw ingredients for our bodies for the time we use them.  After death, it doesn't matter, and should our bones be around in 5000 years, a skull will end up in this museum, and other things perhaps in another, lol. 

A couple lines I do live by are memento mori, and amor fate; stoicism; it makes life a lot more enjoyable.
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

Runningalucas

Quote from: SawyerTed on February 17, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
Quote from: Sedgehammer on February 16, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on February 16, 2021, 08:30:20 PM
Not to be mean, but I feel funerals can be for the ones alive to make them feel better. When My Mother passed I saw some that if they would of visited my Mother when she was alive I would hear, Guess who came to see me? for a month.  ;D
I was there when my parents needed me.
And I was there at the end too.
I see no need to spend $1000's to make me feel better.
Not mean at all. It's a fact. Those that passed are gone. Funerals are for the living. Some to say good bye. Some to feel absolved for something. Some to say better you than me.
I told my wife I don't want one. Just cremate me and take care of the ashes.
It isn't mean.  It's being reasonable.  But just a cremation costs $2,700 here.  That's getting the ashes in a plastic bag encased in a basic plastic container.  No funeral home services beyond cremation.  It's the other required stuff that adds up.  In NC if you need a death certificate, that's $10 each - we needed several. It doesn't take long to spend 3 grand plus just doing the minimum.
Funerals ARE for the living/grieving.  It's part of the process.  But having seen some funerals become "productions" some people go way beyond the necessary.  A funeral I attended a couple of years ago with 5, FIVE, preachers comes to mind. One or two would have been plenty!
You're post reminded of growing up in Texas, seemed all the way from when I could first remember in the late 70's through the early 90's, many folks loved those big production funeral caravans; they were always something to marvel at..... It also seemed at the time, the steady overtime gig for police officers.

Quote from: Ianab on February 17, 2021, 12:05:26 AM
There was a news article recently about an old local farmer that told his family he wanted to be cremated on the family farm. Sons bought the body home, build a BIG funeral pyre around the coffin (whole trees and assorted logs) and lit it all off. Apparently it burnt for 3 days  ;D

Turns out it's totally legal to do that here, as long as you are out in the country, and you have to ensure you have a big enough fire to do the job. And the Police would like to be notified, otherwise they hear that someone is "burning a body", and have to investigate. They did call in to see this family, looked at the 50ft circle of smouldering ash, the legal death certificate, and it was all cool as far as they were concerned.
In my area you can be buried on the land as well.  What you describe above, is along the lines of I myself would want; figured it would go off better having the logs configured in a vertical fashion  Then again, it may not work out to well when there are burn restrictions lol. 

Quote from: dougtrr2 on February 17, 2021, 08:15:34 AM
My plan is to build a box for my cremated remains.  Then I want my ashes spread in my forest.  After the ashes are spread, break up the box and use the kindling to start a fire for a wienie roast. ;D

I have been know to start a small fire just so I can have a wienie roast for myself.  When the grandkids come visit we have at least one, more if they want.  It did my heart good when one grandson asked "Grandpa, can we eat outside again?"

Doug in SW IA
That sounds like an awesome idea.  You could even have your grand kids help with the builds, as it may aid in giving them closure; that is following your instructions later about a weinie roast.  Thanks for sharing.

Quote from: mike_belben on February 17, 2021, 12:01:07 AM
Treat me good while im alive. When im off this God forsaken earth i dont give a dang what you do with me.  
Agreed.

Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

WV Sawmiller

From Sledgehammer:
Not mean at all. It's a fact. Those that passed are gone. Funerals are for the living. Some to say good bye. Some to feel absolved for something. Some to say better you than me.
I told my wife I don't want one. Just cremate me and take care of the ashes.

My dad used to say "I don't have to go but to one more funeral and I'd just as soon somebody else went in my place."
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Will.K

There was a story too (I think by Jesse Stuart) about a man who sold his body to the college for experimentation and took the money and gave himself a farewell drinking party. Then he went out in the woods and hanged himself where nobody but the birds and bugs would get his corpse. 


tatiana567

You Did great job at what is not easy fee

Funerals are not for dead are for living to first deal with grief and second to remember - because first death of person is when they die but last is when name of that person is spoken last time

goose63

When my brother died Iput some of his ashs in his 44mag and dads old 3030 we went to Franks favorite hunt spot and shot him down range.

Doug a friend of his used one of those 3030s to get his big Buck you could say Frank is still deer hunting.
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

kantuckid

Quote from: Will.K on February 17, 2021, 11:43:06 PM
There was a story too (I think by Jesse Stuart) about a man who sold his body to the college for experimentation and took the money and gave himself a farewell drinking party. Then he went out in the woods and hanged himself where nobody but the birds and bugs would get his corpse.
Back in the 1960's we were out beer drinking in downtown Topeka and this guy near us in the bar was getting soused. I sort of recognized him as I worked with his FIL in grocery store and had seen him around the store. He was a dump truck driver who'd sold his body for science and was seeming to drown his thoughts in beer after he'd thought some about his deal. Humorous indeed. :D 
I've thought about donating my body but not given it a serious look toward becoming a cadaver. 
When My Mom died, who I was very close too and was in charge of her arrangements, she'd asked to be cremated. I went to a KS funeral company who owned three funeral parlors in Topeka, KS, each was described to me as theirs but with a different class of service using different charge rates. My Mo was a child of the Depression and had grown up wanting for food and shelter due to a deadbeat dad. She was a pennypincher deluxe and I was tasked with seeing that what little money she had left not be spent on a funeral or her remains after cremation. I remember well the discussion and the funeral guy showing me a black plastic box about the size of a Family Sized cheerios box being sold for $89. It probably cost a dollar or two to make. As a lifelong woodworkers but long ways from my shop, I wished I'm made her box, but bought the plastic one instead as it was exactly what she'd have done to send her little savings to her grandkids, not a funeral bunch. She already had a cemetery spot beside my Dad, so that's where her remains went. Her service was done by her friend, a church pastor for free at her nursing home chapel, not blown on markers or hearses, etc.. 
Funerals , tombstones and their costs remind me of political contributions as money down a drain hole. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Old saw fixer

My wife and I have our cremations paid for with a local funeral parlor. 
Stihl FG 2, 036 Pro, 017, HT 132, MS 261 C-M, MSA 140 C-B, MS 462 C-M, MS 201 T C-M
Echo CS-2511T, CS-3510
Logrite Cant Hook (with log stand), and Hookaroon

peakbagger

The best gift my parents gave me was to preplan and pay for their funerals in advance. My dad was mentally alert until the morning he passed but my mom had dementia her last three years. I ended up having to take the lead, but with a plan in place it was fairly easy to stick to while dealing with the grief. I told the funeral home that I was going to honor their wishes by following their plan. Sure, a few things cropped up, but they were minor compared with having to do a plan from scratch. I ended up having to repeat it 5 months later when the other passed. 

I was also lucky that my dad had set up the finances so that it was easy to close out the estates. With the exception of a year plus nightmare dealing with the US military about unpaid widow benefits to my mom, the estate side also went relatively painless.  

SawyerTed

These are the boxes/urns for mom's and dad's ashes.  They are made from cherry that I milled.  I had the top of mom's laser engraved.  Dogwood blooms were among her favorite flowers.  Her birthday was in April and we celebrated her life on her birthday in 2021 with the dogwoods in bloom. 

Dad's is finished and stored but not engraved as he doesn't need it yet.  

Mom and dad paid for their burial plots but elected to pre-purchase a double vault for their ashes.  The boxes are sized so they both fit in the vault.  I suppose my sister will be buried in the extra plot next to mom and dad. 



 

 

 
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