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Author Topic: saw chain sharpener help  (Read 7384 times)

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Offline sawbob011

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2010, 06:45:05 PM »
I use an Oregon bar mounted guide. it takes a minute to set up but im so lowsy at sharpening free hand that its well worth the extra minute. onse its on there I can sharpen as fast and maybe a little faster than my buddy who CAN sharpen freehand. I also have a bench mounted one for my extra chain. With that I just set the chain in place and start, no time wasted trying to fit it to the bar. I once considered buying a grinder until the guy at the saw shop talked me into these. He had the same reasoning some people have had here, you can do more damage with the grinder than good. The bench mount and bar mount were also the preffered sharpening tools used at the shop. He said the gringer was only used for carbide chains (which maybe you should get your helper if hes going throu them so fast ). Thats my 2 scence.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2010, 09:56:54 PM »
 Oregon has made a file guide for decades and still does .Like 8 bucks for the thing which comes with a file included .A good file,better than Oregon sells for about a dollar .Baileys must  have box car full  of them no doubt . For about 20 bucks,file guide and a dozen files anyone can learn to hand file a chain . Well at least they should get the basics if nothing else .

Offline den

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2010, 11:27:46 PM »
Like it or not most companies in this counry steal ideas. Ford, Gm has cars from all over the world in their R&D.
I've first hand seen the world's largest MFG ( of a type of construction equipment )take anothers product, take it apart in R&D and in 6 months it was at a trade show. You couldn't tell the differance but the color.
If americans do it I guess it's ok ?
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Offline Jeff

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2010, 12:04:42 AM »
I don't care whether anyone thinks its ok or not. Its not okay here.  Den, you seem to be attracted when ever I voice my position on this. It seems to bring you out of the wood work. Hopefully you will find something other then this to fill your interests here because its going to be a sour topic with me and not something I'm willing to have debated on my website.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2010, 09:59:12 AM »
Firstly my comments following are not a debate nor meant to cause a fire storm ,just an observation .

Years back my wife bought me a 3 HP plunge router ,Ryobi made some place in the Carolina's . If you were to set it next to a Craftsman or Frued router the only difference is the color of the plastic parts .The big question now remains ,who exactly made the machine in the first place ?

Rebadging has been a common practice for decades .Poulan for example sold rebadged saws to a number of companies who sold the product for less than Poulan did .Poulan could care less because they made money no matter what color it was .

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2010, 10:07:27 AM »
Another example popped into my mind .The Whirlpool company has several manufacturing facilities in northern Ohio .They make perhaps 6 -8 different brands  if not more .

The Ohio mower compnay which ironically is located in Ky makes perhaps 80 percent of all the mowers in the US . It's hard to tell the players without  score card at times . :D

Offline Jeff

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2010, 10:55:26 AM »
Re-branding is a completely different issue and totally legitimate.   Out and out theft of intellectual property is another.  Here is your example below of why I have such disdain for some of these companies.

In the case below, they didn't even come close to duplicating even a functional product. They didn't even try. They simply tried to steal the original products reputation for quality. When the product is shipped, it comes with original advertising images that they stole of the legitimate product on the packaging, not a picture of the actual knock off contents.  

Take a look at this youtube video that did a fair comparison of the real product and the product that northern is trying to steal market share with. I say steel because of the way they do things. If they just built inferior products to sell on their own merit, fine, but that's not how they work.



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Offline Jeff

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2010, 11:24:53 AM »
I'll just add one more thing, which i've said before.   I've got no problem with someone buying what ever they want to buy. If you want to go out and buy that Northern arch after seeing that video, the more power to you and I hope it does for you what you want it to do.  I've just made the simple decision to not let this web site be party to promoting advertising or justifying the sale of what in my opinion is unethically produced crap, to the members or guests of this forum.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2010, 11:47:19 AM »
I can see your point and respect your point of view .

Within the last year or so another person on another web forum spent countless hours and money perfecting a certain motorized acsending device . A few of us attempted to be of help with suggestions of the design . As it worked out the design came into fruition and it's now on the market .

Don't you know that some rascal that owns a large arborist supply house tried to block this guy and suggest his company had the design first .Typical ,if you can't figure it out,pirate the thing . >:(

Now that arch.I first saw one of those at the Paul Bunyan show .I think maybe Future forests  products  or something like that made them .At that show however there must have been a dozen companies that had them on display

Archs themselves date back centuries ,nothing new about them at all .Little ones in fact have been used almost forever transporting heavy sections of industrial piping .The great big ones were pulled by large crawler tractors in the days of PNW old growth cutting . Of course like everything else you have good ones and not so good .

Offline Jeff

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2010, 12:02:24 PM »
Logrite bought Future Forestry. :)

The Arch was not my point. Any individual product is not my point. Not at all. Its just an example of what one big company does to try and take unethical advantage. Why should they need to steel another companies images for gods sake? Because the image reflects the best that they do not have. In this case a big unethical company steels from one of our own. Logrite and the family that owns it are true friends of this forum, of its members and of me and my family. That other company's only interest is in taking your cash and credit cards. After that, they could care less about your well being.
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Offline maple flats

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 08:28:40 PM »
After finding out my Baileys online order did not finalize I called on the  phone and reordered on May 4. It is finally due to be delivered tomorrow according to tracking. When I get a chance I have about 10 chains to sharpen on it. 9 of mine and 1 for my boss. Some of mine have hit metal or stone and others are just wood dull, the bosses is way off on angles and needs major re grinding, I'll likely need to go slow on his to avoid heating the teeth. I'll likely get a chance to do them this week end, especially if it rains which IS in the forecast. After that I'll report back on my initial impressions of the Maax Grinder from Bailey's. 
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline ENTS

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2010, 09:19:01 AM »
Ah, is this thread still about grinders???  I just checked the first post, yep, I think it is.


Any way, good choice of the grinder.  It's a good one, not great, but good.  Mine has a terrible time keeping cutters the same length, even on the same side.  This is due to the flex in the arm.  Remember your bringinig that arm down in an arc, not straight down.  I had a dendency to try and bring it straight down, causing cutter length to change tooth to tooth.  Now flipping it over to do the other side, I could never get mine match the other side with out carefully setting it up to match. 

Hope you have better luck but even if it's the same as mine, you can do a lot with it.  Invest in some CBN wheels.
Later,
Fred Henry,  Over Worked, Under Paid

Offline ENTS

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2010, 09:34:49 AM »
...Man, if that caused you to have such a tizzy, god help us if you happen to come on on yooper night.

O.K.  I give, what's a "yooper night"?  I know it's U.P. stuff but???

Later,
Fred Henry,  Over Worked, Under Paid

Offline Jeff

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2010, 10:33:58 AM »
Check out the brand new Forestry Forum "Woodopedia" under the Forum Extras link, or click below.  They you can look up yooper or yooper night.  :)

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=dictionary

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Offline maple flats

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2010, 05:25:20 PM »
I've used my Maxx sharpener for about 10 chains in 2 guages, .325 for 2 and .375 for 8. It took a little to figure it out because the 10 language manual was translated to english by someone or a machine that was not familiar with english. After that the pictures were not very clear. But, I finally got it and it did a decent job. It does take some fine tuning to get teeth the same length side to side but with a little practice I think it will be good and most importantly a time saver. I did find one flaw on the smaller chain. The stop barely catches the tooth, I think I'll have my machinist buddy make one with a better shape for that size, about the same length but rather than going to a point it will flare into a birds mouth cut into the end rather than going to a point. The flare will be shoulder of the raker going into the belly before the flare. The .375 caught good and I'm sure .404 will fit good too with an even bigger tooth.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2010, 07:27:55 PM »
i had a grinder 2 1/2 years ago when i started logging, but nothing gets one sharper than filin by hand and its cheaper too.
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Offline maple flats

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2010, 08:05:18 PM »
Over the weekend I used the first of the grinder sharpened chains. Maybe not a good test, cutting some 24" and 27" at the stump with a 20" bar. It did look like I got the cutters slightly shorter on one side than the other but it cut all day like a new chain and I sharpened 8 in very little time. I think It did as well as hand as for cutting but I do see a need to try to learn better to get the cutters equal length. I was taking very little off but had 1 tooth on one side that needed more. I think now I should have done that one separate and then set the cut for the rest. Instead I set for the short tooth. I think the other chains are pretty even side to side. So far I like it. I can do 8 chains in the time I do 1.5-2 by hand. I'll still carry a spare chain with me but if sharpening touch up is needed when I am cutting it will usually be by hand for me but I will no longer have my helper do them by hand. (read first post for the reason)
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline maple flats

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2010, 08:28:15 PM »
Sorry, I forgot to say, these bigger ones were white pine and others were scotch pine, another white pine and 2 spruce, but only 8-10" DBH. All yard trees, from my daughters yard. We had a climber to limb the bach side and the lower limbs toward the house. Then he threw a line up like 40-50' into the tree, pulled a line up and 4 of us pulled while he dropped it. I did 3 trees one night before he came and left the 3 closest to the house for him. Every tree went exactly where  planned it, (better than some attempts, but this is the first time I ever pulled by hand to drop a tree. We did have 4 heavy and strong guys pulling from about 150' out. Well, 1 in the front yard we anchored to a utility pole and used a pulley to make it easier, the biggest, on the back corner of the house was with no anchor but the breeze was right too. I don't like cutting near houses!!!
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline jteneyck

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Re: saw chain sharpener help
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2010, 09:04:29 PM »
I check the chain for which side has the shorter teeth.  I use a set of digital calipers to check the length.  If one tooth is decidedly shorter than the others, I ignore it and set the grinder for the next shortest.  When that side is done I switch around and grind the other side.  My grinder gives pretty equal results for tooth length on both sides, but I check the first tooth on the second side to make sure it's within 0.005" and make any required adjustments.  I get the sharpest chains when I'm just skimming the tooth with the wheel, taking off no more than 0.005".  If I have to take off more because of damage, I'll sharpen twice, once to get rid of the damage, and then a second time taking off just a couple of thousands.  I don't want to start the "You're not a man unless you hand file." thing again, but I don't and wouldn't hand file unless I'm out in the middle of the woods without a spare chain.  But I'm not a pro, just a guy ripping lumber to build furniture, where a sharp chain with equal length teeth is the key to success and enjoyment.  Once you get comfortable with your grinder you'll quickly turn out chains every bit as sharp as hand filed and the teeth will all have exactly the same angles and be within a few thousands, and the chips will really fly. 



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