3/8 vs .404 ... Which is better

[JustWondering]

Hello every one how is every one doing today. Well my topic says it all ... Is it worth converting a saw from 3/8 to .404 if so how hard is this process ? What are the advantages and disadvantages ? Does anyone have a preference ?

[beenthere]

Might depend on your saw and also what it is that you want to cut.

And how do you define "worth" ? 

[JustWondering]

Well I use it for bucking fire wood once in a while a tree some where on the property. But typically 5-10 cords a winter

[Reddog]

To me there is no real reason to change. The 404 takes more HP to pull because it is wider.
About the only two modern saws I can think of that may benefit from 404 are the Stihl MS880 and Husky 3120.

As far as changing from .375 to .404 the two things need are: A .404 drive hub for the saw, New bar to match the driver width and sprocket nose pitch.

[T Welsh]

JustWondering,What reddog said is dead on! Tim

[Dale Hatfield]

I agree with all said above.

[JustWondering]

So there really is no benefit to jumping to the .404 ... Well thanks for all the info I was under the impression that the .404 chain would cut faster but given the fact that it take more of the horse power to pull it does not make sense to consider that opption

[w8ye]

.404 stays sharp longer as it holds up better to dirt in the wood etc.

If you are more or less a casual firewood cutter, the difference in savings versus the cost of changing over would never pay out.

I have a 084 with a newer 30" X .404 chain and its going to stay that way. Works very nice. I bought it used like that

There's a friend with a 042 with a newer 25"  X .404 chain and his is going to stay that way. He bought it used like that

These saws do not get used but maybe 3 or 4 days a year. It would never pay out to replace the bar and chain unless the existing bar was worn out.

[HolmenTree]

From Just Wonderings avator pic it looks like you have a 056? Thats the smallest saw you want to run .404 on.
When I last ran my 066 I had 28"-.404 chisel on it and it was a good match. I used that saw for the dirty work in my tree service operation and the .404 paid off.
Yes .404 is alot more pricey then .3/8" but you get what you pay for.
No matter if its .404 Oregon, Stihl or whatever you will have alot less stretching, alot more filing life,holds a better edge, takes more punishment in dirt rocks etc.,less bar pinching with its wider cut, better in bore plunge cutting, more stable [less derailing] cutting chain with its larger drive links, makes a smooth fast cut. And it still uses the same 7/32" file as the 3/8" uses.
If your using your 80cc plus saw only a little bit during a year a few loops of .404 won't break the bank.  

[JustWondering]

But you would have to change things with the saw no ? Sprocket and or clutch ? Plus bar and chain my 045 super is mainly going to be used to buck large pieces of wood and cutting large stumps. Estimated 8- 10 cords of wood mostly red white oak and locast ooccasional hickory or cherry is it justifiable to make such a conversion I have no plans to get rid of the saw anytime soon and I could swap any parts out with my old mans 056 super. Any suggestions, thanks every one for such great input it make research enjoyable when you know the advice your getting is coming from professional individuals.

[JustWondering]

Can a 3/8 bar and chain be ran on a .404 sprocket ? Sorry for all the questions  :-[

[Reddog]

Yes you would need to change the sprocket or drive hub depending how your saw is set up.

Can a 3/8 bar and chain be ran on a .404 sprocket ? Sorry for all the questions  :-[

Most .404 has .063 drive links. .375 uses .050 or .058 or .063 is available. So you would need to look at your bar and see what drive link it is made for.
Then you will need to look at the bar nose, is it a solid or roller nose? those do not require a certain pitch. But a sprocket nose will require a matching pitch to the chain. If it is a sprocket nose is it a replaceable one? if it is you could buy a .404 nose and put it on.

I have run .404 on one production saw and didn't see any advantage to it. As to the stretch issue I just run Stihl chain and don't run it dull, that took care of that issue. Oregon chain seems about the worst for stretching. YMMV.

What length bar are you currently running?
What chain are you running now that you want to make it faster, Full comp, half skip, full skip?

[HolmenTree]

JW at the most you would only need the .404 loop of chain, .404rim sprocket and .404 bar tip. Unless you have a .050 bar and a solid spur sprocket clutch drum, then you would need a new .063 bar and sprocket drum to fit the .404 chain. Today only .063 .404 chain is sold, you may find some old .058 around and if your bar is .050 then spread the rails that little .008 and run it that way.
I have a roll of very rare Oregon .050- .404 AL chisel bit chain and have run some of that on my 066 with .050- 28".

Yes a sharp chain will reduce stretching but in your case JW seeing your new at this I figured keeping your chain sharp wouldn't be your strong point.
So I recommend the .404 chain a good match for durability for your 045 Super.
Make that saw almost bulletproof :D

[JustWondering]

Reddog I'm currently running a 24" stihl rollamatic es 3/8 bar with .050 full comp chain.
HolmenTree I have gotten very good sharpening chains sharpening 13 diffenent saws at work allows for alot of repartition.

[Reddog]

Reddog I'm currently running a 24" stihl rollamatic es 3/8 bar with .050 full comp chain.

That's a good tried and true setup for that saw.

You could try a loop of Skip chain and see what you think. I would assume it you are currently running a 7pin sprocket or hub. With skip chain you may find it is possible to go to a 8pin. That may make it cut faster, also less to sharpen.

[JustWondering]

The seven pin drum sprocket is all I would need well including a bar and chain ? That's not too bad is availability getting harder to find bar and chain for it though ?

[JohnG28]

To convert to an 8 pin all you need is a new clutch drum and drive sprocket.  The bar and chain are same unless you choose to change it.  The 8 pin will increase your chain speed.

[HolmenTree]

HolmenTree I have gotten very good sharpening chains sharpening 13 diffenent saws at work allows for alot of repartition.

Well JW I quess I answered your .404 question the best I could seeing you're an expert chain sharpener.
Just stick with the 3/8 setup that you have. If your 045 has the spur type sprocket solid to the drum I'd advise you to switch it over to a drum with the floating rim sprocket. Then in the future you only have to change the rim sprocket and not the whole drum. The rims also don't damage the chain's drive links like the spur sprockets do when the chain should derail.

Unless your running a 32" or longer bar use the full skip chain , but on your 24" just stick with the full comp chain.
You may save some time sharpening a  full skip with less cutters but your going to be sharpening it more often. A full skip might be fine for falling clean softwood in the PNW but cutting firewood on the ground will dull that full skip fast. Full comp holds a better edge then full skip.
To prove that point Windsor used to make a 3/8 chain called 50-58-63 AF "full house chain" with a cutter directly behind each other [no gaps] this chain was used for industrial cutting of soft metals, no carbide used.

Stay with the 7 tooth drive sprocket , you'll have pulling power when you need it in bigger wood.
056 Magnum will take a 8 T just fine.

[Reddog]

Holmentree what is the max rpm setting on the 045?

[HolmenTree]

Holmentree what is the max rpm setting on the 045?

9800 rpm max setting by the book. Yes I know what some folks might think with that low rpm a 8T drive sprocket would be the way to go. And yes in some cases when cutting smaller wood with that larger saw more chainspeed would be better.
But for an example my big highpowered Husqvarna 395XP came from the factory with a 7 T -3/8 rim sprocket and I'm very happy with that setup. I have the grunt when I need it.
Your chain will hold a better edge with less chainspeed too.

[Reddog]

Well I will say in oak a 20" with full comp a 28" bar with skip chain and a 8pin work well on my 046 and 441 for production felling.
So that would lead me to believe a 24" on a 045 with a 8pin and skip may be worth a try for comparison.

[HolmenTree]

Well I will say in oak a 20" with full comp a 28" bar with skip chain and a 8pin work well on my 046 and 441 for production felling.
So that would lead me to believe a 24" on a 045 with a 8pin and skip may be worth a try for comparison.

Yes that would work just fine what you're doing for production felling Reddog.
But JW has his sights on cutting up some firewood into stove length.
Remember what I said about dulling from running skip and more chainspeed. 

[acco1840]

I run 404 on everything. It holds an edge much longer and it is way more extra chain for an extra $6. Hit a rock with a 3/8 hard enough, and it is bye bye........ :'(

[JustWondering]

Can you run a 3/8 bar and chain with a .404 rim sprocket

[Al_Smith]

. There's a friend with a 042 with a newer 25"  X .404 chain and his is going to stay that way. He bought it used like that

The 042 would pull it it just wouldn't like it .Not a bad old saw being some oddball 68 cc or whatever they are .Pretty rare I've only seen one which resides in my shed .