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Tree cut height, tree service vs logger?

Started by Brad_bb, November 24, 2019, 05:03:44 PM

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Brad_bb

I've dealt with the tree service guys a lot lately.  They tend to cut the tree fairly high leaving a higher stump, then they come back and cut the stump off low for grinding.  I'm assuming that they do this for safety?  Maybe an OSHA thing??  Do loggers do the same thing or do they cut lower to get more of the butt wood?  Do loggers do a different cut than the tree service to preserve more wood?  Please educate me. thanks.
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barbender

Loggers left really high stumps back when they cut our virgin pine forests, for 2 reasons. 1. It was easier on the back to cut at waist height with a two man cross cut. 2. There was a lot less wood to get through when you got above the root flare. You can still see remnants of over 100 year old pine stumps across our forests, most of them are approaching 3' high. In our modern era, we are required on most timber contracts to keep our stump height to a certain level. I can't remember what that is🤷🏽‍♂️😁 I think stump height may not exceed 1/2 of diameter? All that said, even when low stumps are required, a lot of woods, in my experience, are best "butted off" a bit to get rid of the root flare. Some species, when sawn, will curl right up to match the flare.
Too many irons in the fire

Bruno of NH

I get logs from the biggest tree company in the country.
They have the oddest butt cuts on the logs I have ever seen.
I know the log truck driver tells me they have to go to lots of hand holding meetings about every thing.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

WDH

In Southern Industrial Forestry in the Piedmont and Coastal Plain, I believe that the standard for stump height is 6" maximum.  However, 99.9 % of the timber is mechanically felled with fellerbunchers. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Skeans1

It's going to depend on the face the size and depth, if a super low stump is required without recutting the stump with a humboldt style face or a block face on a 60" tree it's possible but not always the safest thing with the ground we see. In general you'll see a tree service high stump something just so they aren't bent over like a faller would be to save every inch they can same with a conventional face you loose footage on the logs out here if they're left. Don't quote me on this but from memory some of the guys I've cut with over the years said most grounds require a maximum of 18" back cut height if safe on the high side of the tree.

moodnacreek

Professionals cut trees, especially hardwood, at the ground in a way that will not crack, split or cause pull out. The idea is to get as far below the first cat face [or worse] as possible to produce a grade saw log. If you have been sawing logs produced in this mindset you will quietly hate the other kind and certainly pay less and grade them harder.

BargeMonkey

 Most of the contracts I've dealt with say 18" ground permitting. Sometimes we will leave a high stump for a bumper, come back thru later and cut it off. Everyone thinks loggers are bad, you cant get 50% of the tree rat industry to pass a drug test never mind buck logs correctly. 

Grandpa

Most contracts here say less than 12" above ground level.

Don P

"An inch at the bottom is worth a foot at the top"

Oddman

Used to fall for a real small logging outfit, we cut our stumps low because it reduces waste and because the landowners generally like them low.

Southside

@barbender is any of that due to winter cut snow pack?  Growing up you could always tell when a tract was cut in a bad winter as the stumps would all be the same height and they would be high.  Mechanical harvests obviously changed that.  
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Ron Scott

Most all commercial timber sale contracts here call for a 12" stump height on sawlog size trees and an 8" stump height on pulpwood size trees. 
~Ron

barbender

Southside, I don't know how our stump height standards in the contracts are arrived at. Our harvesters tend to leave higher stumps, whereas the bunchers take them down low. We don't tend to get enough snow to affect stump heights with the harvesters very much. In the past, pre mechanical logging, I'm sure the snow did affect the stump height- and just like Maine, most of the wood was cut in the winter. Maybe you could find the year a tract was cut going by the stumps? "Oh, a three footer! Thus must be from the winter of '17!😂" 
Too many irons in the fire

Corley5

Places in the U.P. they go back in the spring and cut a 100" saw bolt off the stump ;) :D ;D :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Pine Ridge

I cut as low as possible, landowners here would frown on high stumps. Sometimes you have to cut one higher than normal according to circumstances, but generally as low as you can.
Husqvarna 550xp , 2- 372xp and a 288xp, Chevy 4x4 winch truck

Brad_bb

Well that answered the logger part of the question - stumps are cut much lower, as low as possible, and they will use a Humboldt cut as opposed to conventional face cut (I had to look those up on google).  Some have indicated that tree service guys cut higher for safety and convenience. 
Thanks fellas. Now I know more.  This came up because I thought I may need to the tree service I've used to fell some walnut trees in a woods by me owned by a neighbor(that he was willing to give me).  It will likely be cleared next year for road, but I just found out there is some dispute between the neighbor and the town.  So It may never happen.  Good info for the future though.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Ianab

Tree service guys are generally not worried about the log, and in fact usually have to saw it up into manageable chunks for removal. So lopping off a tree at waist height is easier, they are going to have to cut through it there anyway once it's on the ground. Then they can go back and cut the stump off closer to ground level without being concerned about where the tree is going to land. 

I'm sure they could saw them lower if you asked nice and explained you wanted the logs. Just saving the log isn't their usual priority. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

moodnacreek

Quote from: Don P on November 24, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
"An inch at the bottom is worth a foot at the top"
Never heard that before, very true.

Southside

Quote from: Don P on November 24, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
"An inch at the bottom is worth a foot at the top"
Two feet in pine around here.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

timberking

Did you know stumps can grow.  Cut even with the duff layer then get all the wood behind it.  Presto! 8" stump

SFires

I use to work a lot of line clearance and even though there are some very professional and well trained ppl that work that profession the vast majority is guys who never ran a saw before starting work with a tree company and are under trained and just thrown out there with the best wishes so they do what they think is proper and as long as nobody gets killed and they get there quota nobody cares. 
A man can always use more tools, more space,more wood, and a whole lot more time.

BAN

I always tell my landowners I make wonderful stumps
12" seems about right and is height on most contracts around here. It's always hard to go low again after cutting on wildland fires. Bending over isnt done on fires  ;D

thecfarm

Cutting high also keeps your chain out of the dirt.
I like mine low. Saves on the tractor tires. ;)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

sealark37

I asked the logger why he cut the tree so high, and wasted so much wood.  He said, "Have you ever found any barbed wire in  the logs I sell you?"  Point made.

Clark

I'm much closer to the tree service side of things and I will echo what others have said. Most guys cut high because it is easier. It also gives you a heavy piece of wood that has zero use and has now become pure waste. I've trained my crew to make one cut, as low as they can so we don't have to deal with the waste.

The other reason is the bark of the tree will hold onto dirt. And maybe more down low. Especially with streets that are plowed and sanded there is a lot of dirt that makes it way to the trunk. I maintain that one cut low is better than two and a sharp chain is one nail away from dull so let's not worry about the dirty bark.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

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