iDRY Vacuum Kilns

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solubor liquid

Started by farmfromkansas, February 12, 2020, 12:19:44 PM

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scsmith42

What Don and Danny said.

I'll add that it's best to let the surface dry a bit before stickering, else the stickers may get wet and you'll end up with sticker stain.

The fastest / easiest way that I've found to apply it is to use a modified backpack sprayer.  The modification is to replace the OEM sprayer wand with a handle from a pressure washer.  You can then use standard pressure washer tips in the handle and it really lays out a high volume, low pressure spray.

It's best not to leave the solution overnight in the pressure washer (at least for Timbor), as it may separate back out of the mix and you'll have a mess on your hands.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Anderson

Quote from: Don P on March 08, 2020, 08:54:28 PM
BTW it is not corrosive to metal.


Don P thank you for this! I was going to post asking about a possible corrosive effect on metal, thinking about treating skip sheathing boards before putting roofing on.


Also I just wanted to post a picture of the brand of Boron fertilizer I have been getting after trying to find Solubor without any luck. Maybe it might help someone find something to protect their wood with. I last bought some about 2 years ago, if memory serves I think I paid about $30-32 a bag?

Thanks to everyone posting their experience and advice in this thread! Lot's of excellent information. I will be bookmarking and referring back to this one for sure! :) :P

Anderson


Southside

Where do you get that? Had not seen that brand.
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Anderson

I got it in Weyers Cave Va. From Houff feed and Fertilizer. They were super friendly and helpful,and very willing to sell me just 2 bags even though it looked like they normally sell tractor trailer loads :D   

Hopefully it's ok to put their contact information here?

Phone: 540-234-9246
Fax: 540-234-9318
Houff Corporation
97 Railside Drive
Weyers Cave, VA 24486

farmfromkansas

What did you have to pay for yours?
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Anderson

Somewhere around $30 a bag. About 2 years ago.

WDH

50 pound bags of solubor run me $80. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

caveman

It is not my intention to derail the thread but for those of you who use some form of DOT to treat your green wood how do you convince customers that it is not harmful?   I have read the MDS (formally MSDS) but the hardwood lumber outlet that consigns some of our wood is opposed to selling wood that has been sprayed with DOT.  

If we do not spray it before it goes in the air drying stacks we get considerably more bug defects.  We built the hot box but that adds an extra, time consuming step and it does not remove bug holes/damage.

The soluble boron that we purchased was in 25 lb. bags and cost around $40 a bag.  We got ours from Harrell's Fertilizer.
Caveman

farmfromkansas

Finally got the bill from the Coop, they saved up and billed it all at once, everything for about 4 months.  The solubor was 79.50 for 50 lbs.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

samandothers

@Don P, @WDH or others do you have a thread on your dip tanks or pictures of them?  I was wondering about framing something from wood and lining with a plastic to create a dip tank.

I was going to order some of the Solubor from Danny's link and thought wonder how much shipping will run.  When I looked at the address I was pleasantly surprised, jaw dropped.  This place is about 7 miles from our place in Va.!

Don P

Sounds like you are getting it from Ron at 7 Springs.
I don't have a picture and my last one is in the middle of a burn pile after goodness, about a decade of abuse. I've made a few over the years just using board sides and a plywood bottom. Subfloor glue and lots of fasteners, cleats and more glue at the bottom seams, caulk the inside and paint. Drill a drain hole near the bottom of one end piece and plug with a dowel. Basically a plywood boat :D.

samandothers

Yep, 7 Springs.
Sounds like that trough will work!  I recon I could come up wood and glue!  Probably have a stopper from a bottle of some sort.  :D

WDH

I have a layout table that I spray boards on using a 25 gallon tank with a wand.  I have not used a dip tank.  Spraying ring porous hardwoods is a pain, but necessary. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Don P

Most of the time with boards I use a heavy nap roller and as I sticker I'll roll one side, flip and roll the other, catching the edges as I go, then the next layer. With the trough I'll sink boards and put some old drake drums on them to submerge, then lift out and put sticks across the top of the trough to let them drip out a minute and repeat, slow. I really mostly use the trough when doing timbers. I'll rough out the mortises and tenons then soak, roll them to get it all if needed, drip out, let em dry a few days while doing others and then continue fitting. Doing locust for one job it made a very pretty yellow dye out of the water. I forgot one timber for probably about a week, that one will probably be under that barn till the cows come home :D
Don't forget a very little bit of dish soap will help break the surface tension and get it to flow on better, those little air bubbles that stick to the wood can be a pain otherwise. I also won't say just ring porous, poplar is one of their favorites here, well, and sweet birch too.

I've been emailing back and forth with a gentleman over in Giles Co, a covered bridge was blown down, he and his son are sawing and rebuilding. He checked over there yesterday, $89/bag which is what I last paid early this year.

doc henderson

@WDH can you define a ring porous hardwood and give example.  still trying to learn from the best!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WDH

Ring porous hardwoods have very large earlywood pores (first pores laid down in the Spring in a new growth ring) but then the pore size gets distinctly smaller in the latter part of the growing season.  So there are large pores in the first part of the growth ring transitioning to very small pores.  This differential in pore size creates a distinct strong "grain" when viewed on the face of a board.  Imagine the cathedrals on flatsawn oak or ash.  Common ring porous hardwoods are the oaks, ash, hickory, black locust, honeylocust, the elms, hackberry and a number of others.

In contrast, diffuse porous hardwoods only have small pores from the beginning of the growth ring to the end.  No large earlywood pores and no two very distinct pore sizes.  Diffuse porous hardwoods are the maples, yellow poplar, the aspens, birch, beech, willow, basswood, sweetgum and many others.  Because of pore uniformity, the "grain" on a board surface is not as distinct.  

Here is a link to a wood ID site that is the best when it comes to viewing the characteristics of a particular wood.  The first link describes black oak, a red oak, and you can see the two very distinctly different pore sizes in the growth ring on the end grain views.

black oak

A common diffuse porous hardwood is yellow poplar.  Here is a link to view diffuse porous pore arrangement, no significant difference in pore size across the growth ring.  

poplar

When IDing a particular wood, noting if it is ring porous or diffuse porous is a good way to eliminate a bunch of "what it is not" right off the bat.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

doc henderson

ah ha!  thanks Danny!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

samandothers

You note spraying ring porous hardwoods as being a pain.   Why are they worse than the diffuse porous?  Is it how it absorbs?  I am assuming you are spraying all hardwoods.

farmfromkansas

On walnut, you only need to spray the sap wood.  Have been told cottonwood is resistant to bug damage.  I know ash, locust, elm, hackberry and mullberry need to be sprayed to dry successfully.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

WDH

Actually the "hard" part is just the mechanics and hassle of having to handle the boards to spray them.  I spray all the ring porous hardwoods because the pore structure, with the large earlywood pores, makes it easier for the tiny little PPB larvae to penetrate into the wood and begin doing their dirty deed.  I do not spray most of the diffuse porous hardwoods because I have had very little issues with them and PPB.  It also matters how long the wood sits on the stickers air drying.  If I plan to air dry down just to 20% then go into the kiln, I do not spray because the PPB's have had not enough time and the wood moisture content has not been low enough for long enough for them to get much of a foothold.  As I will sterilize the wood in the kiln, that takes care of the problem.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

samandothers

Thanks Danny and others.

As we have discussed on this thread or another the tulip poplar I have cut is very popular with the PPB.   Sounds like a conservative approach will be to spray most all hardwoods I cut.  

caveman

Ambrosia beetles are coming out of some Paroda (Monkey Ear Tree) slabs we recently sawed and sprayed with DOT.  I took this picture a week or so ago.  Yesterday there were considerably more holes, dust and straws.  I did not notice any frass on the logs when we were sawing and the slabs were only dead stacked 2-3 days prior to spraying and sticker stacking.

The other hardwoods we have recently sawn and sprayed off of the mill show no Ambrosia beetle holes or evidence of infestation.  Do any of you have suggestions of what is going on?  The MC of these is still way north of 30% so they have a while before they will go into the kiln.



 
Normally we spray right off of the mill but the guy we sawed these for showed up with more logs and no money so we worked out a deal to keep some of the slabs to cover the cost of sawing the others.  This resulted in the few days delay in getting them sprayed.
Caveman

Don P

The varmints are waking up here. It looks like they are hitting the sapwood, could edge that off and give the rest another really good high concentration soaking. Regular anti-freeze is more toxic and will help get it in deeper. Barring any of that you might try laying plastic down on bunks in the hot box, stack, wrap, and heat... trying to keep drying down but getting the heat to them. I've got no experience there just kicking ideas around.

WDH

They were already in there before you even sawed the logs.  I had that happen many times with pine that showed no evidence no ambrosia beetles when sawn, but the upon drying for a few days, the beetles leave because they do not like the drying wood and you see the little piles of sawdust.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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