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its time to start buying logs

Started by yukon cornelius, September 03, 2014, 10:35:19 PM

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yukon cornelius

things are looking good around these parts! its about time to start buying some logs from loggers and others. I have been buying from an ex amish guy who runs a big circle mill down the road a few miles. he has been fair as far as I can tell but he is making money on them. for me that's not a problem but he wants to move to Alabama. I need some pointers on how to get started and things to look for. I don't want to take advantage or be taken advantage of.

i will be buying erc.
It seems I am a coarse thread bolt in a world of fine threaded nuts!

Making a living with a manual mill can be done!

beenthere

yukon
By now, you have opened up several logs and noticed that the bark of logs indicate where the old knots and defects (characters) are underneath (overgrown) within the log. Those are your clues to good wood and higher value. Likewise, a smooth straight surface of a log comes from high quality (no bumps, barked areas, lightning strikes, frost cracks, decay, etc.)

Figure what you may want to saw out of a log and then what you are willing to pay for it. Make notes of what you see on the surface and make note of what lies beneath. If a log doesn't cut out like you want it to, then try to recall what the bark surface was like to see if it was telling you what was actually there.

Once you get a leg up on reading the log quality, the next step is to saw it up in a way that yields that quality and puts it in the products where you get the most bucks.

Something on that order, anyway.  But get in a position that you can let a logger know what you'll pay for the logs you want, and hope it is more than what they figure they are worth.  Then they'll more likely sell to you.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ron Wenrich

Why not talk to the circle mill guy and see if what tips you can get from him.  He's been successful in buying logs and offering the price needed to get them into his yard.  He also can give you the pointers you need for timber in your area.  See if he'll introduce you to a few loggers, and let you watch as he scales out a few loads.  He'll be able to give you visual pointers at the time.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

ozarkgem

A friend of mine ran an ad on CL wanting to buy ERC logs. He got some REALLY NICE logs from a guy in Ozark. He won't give me his name. Expect to pay .45 .50 bf for them. The Amish are begging for logs here. I don't know if you have the time or equipment to log your self but that is another option. Went through Wheatland last Sunday with the Grand kids. I really like the old log cabins on display there.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Cedarman

Beenthere, what you are saying works for hardwood and pine logs, but not for cedar.   Smooth ERC logs can be absolutely atrocious on the inside with grown over knots that have rot around them, doughty places etc.    Whole different ballgame.
You cannot tell if ERC is bad inside from looking at the outside except where limbs have been cut off.  If you see a hole in the knot or several knots, then the log most likely is bad.  Also, a white ring or two indicates that the sapwood did not convert completely to heartwood and those are places where doughty wood can form.  Look at the butt for rot.  If there is rot beside ingrown bark, then the log probably clears up.  If there are rot spots on just the butt, then it make go up a few feet or to within inches of the top even if the top shows solid wood.
Watch for black wet in center of the butt.  Cedar can have shake.  These logs will be very heavy compared to other logs.  When you saw them the lumber will be wet and have lots of small cracks.
Watch for 3 lines on the butt log, indicates 3 strands of barbed wire.
Good luck on your cedar hunt.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

WDH

To be successful buying logs from loggers, you have to be able to unload their log truck efficiently.  It can't sit all day at your place while you pick off one log at a time.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

yukon cornelius

great tips!

Im taking notes! anyone use an app on their phone for scaling logs? i just saw a couple the other day.

Ozarkgem, you should have come by! we are going to the wheatland harvest festival this weekend.
It seems I am a coarse thread bolt in a world of fine threaded nuts!

Making a living with a manual mill can be done!

Cedarman

I have a 3 part ticket  made out when logs are delivered or shortly thereafter.
Full name, address and phone number of logger.  Date and time delivered.  Person measuring signs ticket.  They check whether they will pick up check or we mail.  We only pay on Fridays for everything brought in through Thursday.
We give one copy to logger at time of delivery, and one copy with check in case we have to change something such as finding metal in a log after we start moving them.
We also put the diameter at end of small log with lumber crayon. Logs are either good or cull.  Cull get a C beside the diameter. This helps us when we need to find certain diameter logs and also the logger can look after we have measured and if they have questions on measurement we can explain why we have that diameter on the log.
Just our way of doing things.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

YellowHammer

Yukon,
Seems you have an excellent opportunity. The Amish man with the sawmill may be moving, but his loggers aren't and they still need to sell logs. So I'd work a deal with the guy where I'd keep buying logs from him as a way to transition a select few of his loggers to you. He could show you the ropes of scaling and log selection, and his loggers would get a chance to deal with you.
Everybody wins as he still makes money, the loggers get a new client (you) and you get a proven log supply base and a rapid spool up on log buying.
Some of the loggers won't want to deal with you, but some will depending on lots of factors.
One thing I do is tip the loggers a substantial $$ amount directly to them to deliver to me high quality logs and to be patient while I unload their trailer. I have developed a decent relationship with many loggers in the area where they will lay aside high quality logs during their normal logging activities, then when they get enough accumulated they just bring them by my place on their way home.
One logger I know consistently delivers me a small trailer load of high quality logs most every Friday afternoon because the delivery fee I pay him is his family's "Friday going out to eat"  money.
Bottom line is that loggers are in business to make money, and it's important to show them that your business will help their business.
YH


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

dboyt

Quote from: yukon cornelius on September 04, 2014, 08:19:21 AM
Im taking notes! anyone use an app on their phone for scaling logs?

I use Norwood's app.  For the price, you can't beat it.  Includes Doyle, Scribner, & International 1/4", plus log weights for a number of species.   Log Scale App
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

Larry

I've found buying erc is a lot easier than buying hardwoods from a logger.  I buy from landowners, mostly farmers.  They like extra income but don't have the resources to log enough for a log truck, in a reasonable amount of time.  A lot of times I will haul.  A few times I've loaded and hauled.  I've learned logs from one area may be total junk.  From another area I hardly ever see a bad log.  The worst part is the log supply is quite seasonal.  Next to nothing in the hot months.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Tom the Sawyer

Yukon,

Check out SawLogCalc Pro, works very well, several extra features, you can modify popups and there are no ads.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

drobertson

having a log scale stick is pretty important.  I would be in contact with the logger that has been delivering to the fellow that's moving. As mentioned, they are most likely not going anywhere for now.  match the price, and go from there.  There will be bumps in the road, and as mentioned, no way to guarentee any log is solid through and through.  So take a stab at it and see where it leads.  Scale stick, and document with log count, log scale, and date.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Dave Shepard

I bought the SawLogCalc Pro. It was only two or three bucks. I keep track of each customer. It's way faster than having a check sheet and then tallying each column later. I can also email the tally to my computer. Don't trust the weights of the logs. For some reason, it is usually way off, although you can custom set the weight, it still doesn't seem to be accurate.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

ozarkgem

Quote from: yukon cornelius on September 04, 2014, 08:19:21 AM
great tips!

Im taking notes! anyone use an app on their phone for scaling logs? i just saw a couple the other day.

Ozarkgem, you should have come by! we are going to the wheatland harvest festival this weekend.
I had the grandkids with me or I would have. Maybe I will hit the festival also. I will be out and about again as soon as I get the barn done. I want to see your operation.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Glenn1

Can someone please explain to me what ERC stands for?

Thanks,
Glenn
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Gregg Huffman


Glenn1

Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

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