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New chainsaws compared to old chainsaws

Started by blkhillsvt, March 02, 2011, 08:40:19 AM

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blkhillsvt

In a recent conversation with a friend who works on chainsaws we discussed the difference between older chainsaws without the "emmission control" in comparision to the new ones that have it. His opinion was kinda like comparing gas with Ethynol versus gas without......basically no comparison, older saws are easier and cheaper to work on plus have better performance. Can anyone shed some of their wisdom on this subject so I can get other view points?
JD 340D cable skidder,Stihl MS440,Stihl 046
Deeds are fruits, words are but leaves

tyb525

Don't have an opinion as I've not used "New" saws enough, but I can say I use an '80s stihl 038 Magnum almost exclusively and I love it. No emission gimmicks on that one.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Al_Smith

As I've said before I have several 038's ,two mags and an AV .Stock they do fine ,enhanced more so .

Of all the older saws the most impressize in stock form has to be the 181/281 Husqvarna IMO .

Of course this topic is argumenative and debatable .More often comments are made by hearsay rather than actual experiance, he said she said .

Being somewhat of a preserver and small time collector of McCullochs I don't discount any saw because of the brand name affixed to it . Some are good ,some not so much . :)

HolmenTree

Quote from: Al_Smith on March 02, 2011, 10:00:00 AM

Of all the older saws the most impressize in stock form has to be the 181/281 Husqvarna IMO .

Yes I have to agree with you also Al.
The 181 SE was called the "new concept" saw when introduced in 1982. One of the best if not the "highest power to weight ratio" saw at the time, with all the good handling ergonomics and thermal efficiencies with their new "power flow" piston. It wasn't until 4 years later in 1986 that Stihl answered with their 064AV.
But if we go back to 1976 the saw that revolutionized the chainsaw industry was the Husqvarna 162 SE. From the outside it looked exactly like a smaller version of the yet to be born 181 SE. This saw came from before the 1978 AB Electrolux acquisition period and along with the 2100 introduced in 1975 was solely Husqvarna. Some say the fire that heavily damaged Husqvarna's plant and then moving into a newer larger $3 million plant in 1974 changed the companies future for the good.
Another note when everyone else was thinking about installing chain brakes the 2100 and 162 already had the best design fully adjustable chain brake even compared to todays  standards.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

There's always been talk that between the 181 Husky and the 048 Stihl being the highest HP per weight at the time .The 048 was short lived though and not much is mentioned about it except the possibility of it being a noted case leaker  because of design.

I have both in the shed and give the Husky a heads up over the Stihl .The Husky has about 5 ccs more though so that could help a teeny bit . Plus that praticular  048 is getting a tad low on compression so who really knows . A set of rings, on the to do list along with about a thousand other things . ;D

HolmenTree

A old logging buddie Barry Angus ran a Stihl 048. Looked like a oversized 038 with a huge top cover on it, heavy too. About 2 lbs heavier then the larger displacement Husky 181.
Barry said it was a very reliable saw though.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

roostersgt

I guess you'd have to compare like brands and models for a decent opinion. I know my new Stihl MS290 runs circles around my 20+ year old Craftsman and Mac Cat. Starts easier and is far more powerful, lil heavier, but that's okay.

I like to think a good comparison would be to put two Corvettes side by side, one older and one newer. Sure, the older ones were a lot easier to work on, but the newer ones are far better engineered and exponentionally better performers in handling, fuel economy and outright performance. Having owned a dozen or so classics and newer versions, I can tell you the newer ones are better in every category, except re-sale. T

The engineering that goes into new machinery is extrordinary. I'll go out on a limb and state I believe the same might go for chainsaw technology. They're now lighter and more powerful and from what I've heard seem to last longer between rebuilds. What say those who have owned both new and old?   
Stihl MS 170 14"
Stihl MS 260 Pro 16"
Stihl 028 Super 16"
Stihl 028 AV 16"
Stihl 028 AV 16"
Stihl 029 18"
Stihl MS 290 20"
Stihl 036 Pro 25"
Homelite Super 2 (mint)
Remmington 10" Tele Pole Saw
Troybuilt / Honda 27ton Logsplitter

Stihl Team Six - Sacramento Unit

Ianab

Remember too that the old saws that we remember fondly were the cream of the crop. There were some really Junk saws made back in the day too. They have just been thrown away in disgust when they didn't start or vibrated their owners hands off.

I agree the old saws were simpler and easier to work on, but then you usually had to more often. Points in the ignition anyone?

Give me the newer saws any day  ;)

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

HolmenTree

If we using pro saws as an example, breaker point ignition went out in 1979-80.
The 2 big name Pro saw companies [Husqvarna, Stihl] built from 1985 to 1995 were built to their best possible basic engineering to today standards.
Now in the last few years engineering for the big two has gone from basic to advanced with the new strato charging and computer control systems. Carburation and ignition completely controled by a computer or micro processor. Just like what our automobile have evolved from.
The only thing missing for these new chainsaws is fuel injection, but give it time it will come.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

If you took an 028,038,042 and 048 and lined them all up they would resemble a group photograph of a family .The 038 was I do believe the last of the old style .

They were all reliable and I suppose weather they were better or not depended on a persons view point .They all cut fine though .

STIHLFULLSKIP

i have many old saws and love everyone of them,especially  if they say "STIHL" on them. i have many great memories of my grandfather running an 076 and some old ECHOS', which are my saws now. but make no mistake about it,when i want to get the job done,i will take a new saw any day. the new stihl ms441,362,261 will cut circles around the old saws. the power to weight ratio on the new saws is much better. the new saws are much less maint.,and easier to maintain. they are different to work on,but definately not harder to work on. i would say that anyone who thinks the new stuff is harder to work on,either does not like change,or has not worked on the newer saws much.

cgk60

well I still have my 1980 partner S-55 still runs good and cuts pretty fast compared to my Stihl MS-290. The older saws are heavier compared to the new saws though. I don't know if my 5 year old MS-290 would last as long as my old partners. My partner 5000 plus is a pretty darn nice saw, only have the 290 to compare it to. the stihl is my only new saw in the last 30 years I bought.

shinnlinger

The older we get the lighter and more reliable those old saws get...

I have 3 saws from the 70's, a Johny sp49, a Partner F-55 and a Stihl 041AV  I will tell you that they all seem heavy compared to my mid 90's 2054, my newest saw, but that Partner has a chainbreak and is a close second.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

HolmenTree

Quote from: STIHLFULLSKIP on March 02, 2011, 07:34:20 PM
i will take a new saw any day. the new stihl ms441,362,261 will cut circles around the old saws. the power to weight ratio on the new saws is much better. the new saws are much less maint.,and easier to maintain.
I take it you haven't run a 1989 Stihl 044, a 1986 Stihl 064 , a 1982 Jonsered 630 or a 1990 Husqvarna 262XP.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

STIHLFULLSKIP


why would i want to run 20yr old saws  every day when i have new ones???????    i own 2 044's and 1 064 as well as 1 066. all good saws. not too many people make a living w/20 year old saws. cutting cookies or firewood is one thing,running them all day,every day is another..........

HolmenTree

Quote from: STIHLFULLSKIP on March 03, 2011, 05:24:52 AM

why would i want to run 20yr old saws  every day when i have new ones???????    i own 2 044's and 1 064 as well as 1 066. all good saws. not too many people make a living w/20 year old saws. cutting cookies or firewood is one thing,running them all day,every day is another..........
So why did you say your new 441, 362,261 has a much better power/ weight ratio and will cut circles around the old saws ???

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

STIHLFULLSKIP

Quote from: HolmenTree on March 03, 2011, 11:39:53 AM
Quote from: STIHLFULLSKIP on March 03, 2011, 05:24:52 AM

why would i want to run 20yr old saws  every day when i have new ones???????    i own 2 044's and 1 064 as well as 1 066. all good saws. not too many people make a living w/20 year old saws. cutting cookies or firewood is one thing,running them all day,every day is another..........
So why did you say your new 441, 362,261 has a much better power/ weight ratio and will cut circles around the old saws ???

Willard.
BECAUSE THEY WILL!!!!!!    DO YOU OWN ANY OF THESE NEWER SAWS???????    IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT???????????   this is an online forum,everyone is allowed their own opinion.  i happen to own a few of the saws you are blowing about,as well as new saws. i simply expressed my opinion,now let it die.

alha

Not to try to throw gas on the fire here, but I saw this thread, and read thru it hoping to find an answer I to my purchasing decision I need to make in the next couple days. I have the city telling me I need to cut down 4 trees in my backyard, due to dutch elm disease, which have actually been dead for 2-3 years. Since the bark isn't falling off of a couple of them yet, I need to remove them, or else they will hire someone and send me the bill. I have read a bit about the different opinions of newer vs. older saws, and seem to come to the conclusion that older ones are easier to work on, have fewer parts to go wrong, have no emission equip, are more powerful because of it, etc, and are probably more affordable. Reading this thread, other than the affordable part, I guess I really can't tell if my assumptions are correct or not. I hope more people chime in soon, as I plan on buying a saw in the next couple days, and was looking at Stihl 03x, 04x and even 06x series. The price seems to be reasonable if you do a bit of looking, but as I plan on this being the last saw I buy for the forseeable future, I want to make the correct choice, while not breaking the bank.

shinnlinger

If I wanted a good saw but didn't use it to make $ I would look at  a used stihl/husky/johny or a new Efco/Dolmar/Solo.

Local dealers would probably decide it for me but if your good with a wrench the internet seems to get it done these days....

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

weimedog

Old is a relative thing for me...we have the new generation Strato saws, the last generation saws such as the 272 thru 372 configuration saws, and then OLD saws....Metal, Heavy, parts hard to find etc.

The REALLY old saws have to be labor's of love as you will spend as much time finding parts as doing that actual project..and they are complex at times. The mid 1980's thru mid 2000 era saws are the easiest to work on by far.  AND they make good power for their weight & displacement. The news ones, the Strato saws..they have an added level of complexity with their carbs and stuff. Haven't warmed up to them yet.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

HolmenTree

Quote from: STIHLFULLSKIP on March 03, 2011, 05:24:52 AM


BECAUSE THEY WILL!!!!!!    DO YOU OWN ANY OF THESE NEWER SAWS???????    IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT???????????   this is an online forum,everyone is allowed their own opinion.  i happen to own a few of the saws you are blowing about,as well as new saws. i simply expressed my opinion,now let it die.

The man has spoken with nothing else to say. smiley_clapping
There thats my opinion.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

The word "old " is relative .Does in mean mid to late 80's that really run as good as they do today .Mid 70's that most likely  don't or early 60's geardrives ???

Some people can keep them running forever and some have to cart them off to a dealer to change a spark plug  or replace a rope in a recoil . It's relative .

As far as old I kept a mid 80's  Stihl 038 Mag in service for a tree service long passed it's life time .It earned it's keep right up to the end and it still runs BTW .There's a 281 Husky in my shed that still get's it done in grand style so they can be very usefull even with a little age on them .

weimedog

I think the best way to define "old" is by generations of technology. For example the new saws are the new generation "Strato" saws like the Stihl 441, Husqvarna 372XT & 576 etc. Old might be two generations back such as the Husqvarna 272XP & equivalent Stihl's. Antique would be the 1950's even some of the 1960's era bombers. Vintage might be the 1960's into 1970's. Things like the Homelite 925's and McCulloch 797's.


When you think of old as time in use..that's a different story. Care and maintenance can extend the life of any generation saw. And the toughness of the Vintage saws is real as they survived the 16:1 motor oil years and many are serviceable 30 and 40 years later! Are they useful? That's a relative thing as well! My 903 has cut a bundle of wood over the last 10 years. It's now been replaced with a variety of saws...right now a Homeowners 455 is the main saw. The 365/372 blend may unseat it..and you can ague the 365/372 is "old' as it was a blown up pile of parts before  I built it!

So..what do you mean by OLD! Many Vintage saws are very useful when brought to good running condition...Homelite 903-925's, McCulloch 3-10 thru 10-10's, Jonsereds 820 thru 930's..etc.  Many "old" saws can be made to cut within striking distance reliably with modern current generation saws after a muffler mod & port massage...Jonsered 630, Husqvarna 272XP's etc. And Current Generation 372XP's and Stihl MS460's can cut as well as the "New" generation saws stock when maintained right.

I think the real heart of the saw collecting habit is doing the actual research thru the ages to find, and in fact build the ground breaking saws of their time...McCulluch 44's and Homelite 925's, Jonsereds 630's etc. Do the research...Go find one! build it and run it. Report here and add to the knowledge base. As far as motor sports/collecting is concerned, you can't beat the bang per buck with saws! Most old saws are sold for trash prices (or just given away)...its only when you look within the community they all of the sudden get value! Dealers have junkers for junk  prices as its not worth their time, yard sales, land fills, loggers have a steel pile..etc. $20 - $30 bucks can bring you home a pile of projects if you hunt...that's all part of the fun. Also lets you enjoy other things like your motorcycles or car hobbies, gives you more reasons to drive..(Motorcycles are the best as you can't take home too much trash!)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Al_Smith

Then too often times some of the tree service guys would hang on to an oldie just to use for a stumper . While some of the more modern hot rods can cut circles around the vintage they can't stand up to the abuse a stumper takes .

BigJake

Hi guys,
  I'm brand new here, and this sounds like a good way to get my feet wet. I've been a full time professional logger since the mid 80's, so I have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject, but I've always run Huskies, so I can't speak about Stihl. I think I'm one of the few  full timers out there who still runs saws and cable skidders instead of processors, forwarders, etc. My first few saws were 266se and xp and 268xp, later went to 262xp, then 371, 372, 575, and currently running three 576's. I only keep saws a year or so, so maintenance is usually not a big issue except for day to day stuff.  As for cutting and power to weight, without having to work on them much, I'd take a 1986 266XP any day. Those things cut like mad, and ran great. The 262xp was a bit under powered, but turned high rpm's and was so light, if you weren't cutting big diameter hardwood, they were a great saw. If I didn't use a saw that much, I'd try and find a well maintained early 90's 262xp

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