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2-cycle mix oils

Started by kantuckid, November 18, 2019, 09:27:12 AM

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kantuckid

After reading several mix oil threads (adnauseum to some extent) like many/most oil threads, I tired of Amsoil (not a choice for me) or don't use newer 100/1 oils or stay with your saw brand.

I live about 80 miles RT from my Stihl dealer. I use Stihl saws and their 4-mix blower and string trimmer and thus not so handy to buy their oil, plus it's pricey @ $13.99 per 6 pack of 2.6 oz btls, a sort of logical amount for me as a non pro, but live on farm and self logging/LT15 owner user who mixes gallon amounts maybe once or twice a month.

Looking on Amazon and ebay for my next oil, I see Tanaka oil as one possible choice-it's called Perfect Blend and I read it to be a high quality choice-ebay has a one gallon jug for $44.99 or the 16 oz mixer btls. are reasonable too, both free shipping.
I used Bailey's FS oil when I had an order up to make sense out of shipping costs but not logical for oil alone.
Another oil that caught my eye was on Amazon, a case of 48 btls/ STENS full synthetic mix oil for $34.53 w/free shipping.

Opti-2 100/1 mix is sold by same ebay seller but gets lots of yea or nea talk here in this forum.
Seems to be that oils swing all the way in both directions!

Lets hear some real life stuff from what oils I've mentioned above. Let er roll... :D
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

krazeykev

i use westway red mineral 2 stroke oil £16 gbp and free postage for 5 litres off ebay..no problems with it atall..

Al_Smith

What do you want to hear about them ? I've used TSC ,Stihl ultra,Husqvarna ,Standard oil of Ohio outboard motor oil ( decades ago ) and SAE  30WT motor oil and likely a dozen more .Never burned a saw up that had mix oil in the gasoline and only one sad day did straight gas one .I do admit once I used Amsoil but not at 100 to 1 ratio ,32 to 1 .It ran okay too .It was given to me BTW . 

49er

Okay, at the risk of being thought of as the biggest idiot on the forum, I am experimenting  Shell Ultra Platinum at 42 to 1. in a Dolmar 6421. I do not think this Shell oil is magic or anything just a good Group lll oil with low ash content. I believe a Group iv or v oil has some serious disadvantages in a 2 stroke. I also believe many of the top tier over priced 2t oils  have a lot of crap in them that is detrimental but allows the manufacturers to make large profits.                                  So far my observations on this mix is smoke is not a problem. No synthetic polyester or polybutene additives to gum things up, no poorly burning solvents that is suppose to help the lubricating oil mix with the gas. I dropped back from 32:1 to 42:1 because there is more oil and less trash in this oil. The jury is still out on plug fouling and oil spooge.

DATA ON DIFFERENT OILS

LOW ASH OILS

PJ1 Goldfire Pro (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $20.66/liter
over 35% group 2 oil (CAS 64741-88-4), under 30% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
Viscosity 7.1 @ 100C, 42 @ 40C, viscosity Index 128, .87 density, 95ºC flash point
rating: unrated (probably equal to TC due to its group 1 + 2 oils)
- - - - -
Spectro Oils 2T (data #1  #2)
Cost: $11.54/liter
60-90% group 1 and group 2 oils (CAS 64742-01-4 + 64741-88-4)
Viscosity: 9.4 @ 100ºC, 77.1 cST @ 40ºC, viscosity index 97.6, .88 density (estimated),
Flash point: 165ºC
ratings: API-TC
- - - -
Bel-Ray Mineral 2-Stroke Oil (data #1  #2)
Cost: $6.99/liter
90% group 1 + 2 oils (CAS 64741-88-4 + 64742-52-5 + 64742-01-4)
can be used with E15 gas.
viscosity 8.5 @ 100ºC, 59 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 116, density .88, flash point 73ºC (175C for base oils)
rating: API TC and JASO FB
- - - - -
Yamaha Yamalube 2R (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $9.92/liter
Under 69% group 2 oil (CAS 64742-54-7), 17% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
For the high temperatures, rigorous demands and stresses of competition engines.
8.5 viscosity @100ºC, 55 @ 40ºC, Viscosity Index 128, .88 density, 174ºC flash point
rating: not tested (probably FC due to its group 1 + 2 oils)
- - - - -
Amalie SynPlus Oil 20W-20 (data #1  #2)
Cost: $5.09/liter (32oz)
82% Group 2 oil (CAS 64742-54-7)
For high performance air-cooled 2-cycle motorcycles and smaller four-cycle engines.
7 viscosity @100ºC, 42 viscosity @ 40ºC, Viscosity Index 126, .87 density, 190ºC flash point, .08% ash
unapproved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Bel-Ray SL-2 (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $6.88/liter
30% synthetic, 30-40% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
8.1 viscosity @ 100ºC, 41 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 176, .86 density, 86ºC flash point
unapproved rating: JASO FD (note: FD is low smoke but group 1 oils are smokey so I would assume its rating is FC)
- - - -
Motul 510 2T(data: #1  #2)
Cost: $11.99/liter
synthetic oil (assumed due to the viscosity index although it isn't listed in the data sheet),
25-50% group 2 (CAS 64742-54-7), 10-25% Group 1 oil (CAS 64742-46-7)
viscosity 8.2 @ 100ºC , 66.5 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 89, .86 density, 117ºC flash point
ratings: JASO FD
- - - -
Motul Scooter Expert 2T (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $11.99/liter
synthetic oil (assumed due to the viscosity index although it isn't listed in the data sheet),
25-50% group 2 (CAS 64742-54-7), 10-25% Group 1 oil (CAS 64742-46-7)
Engine oil with high RPM protection, OK for ethanol and catalytic converters.
viscosity 9.1 @ 100ºC, 56.2 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 142, .86 density, 92ºC flash
approved ratings: JASO FD
- - - -
Putoline MX5 (data: #1   #2)
Cost: $16.95/liter
synthetic oil (unspecified), 25-50% group oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
viscosity 6.75 @ 100C, 33.7 @ 40C, viscosity index 153, flash point 122C, density .85
unapproved rating: API TC
- - - -
Bel-Ray MC-1 Racing (data #1  #2)
Cost: $27.30/liter
group 5 synthetic Ester oil, 20% Group 2 oil (CAS 64742-52-5)
For non-power valve air engines. Good in vintage engines.
viscosity 20.3 cSt @ 100ºC, 244 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 97, density .93, 98ºC flash point
ratings: unrated (since it is good in air cooled engines I would assume a TC rating for its ash content)
- - - -
Lucas High Performance Semi-Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $11.54/liter
synthetic oil (assumed by the viscosity index although it isn't listed on the data sheet),
10-30% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-88-7)
viscosity 7.5 @ 100ºC, 41.5 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 149, .87 density, 83ºC flash point, .25% ash
unapproved rating: JASO FC
- - - -
AMSoil Dominator (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $13.17/liter
25-40% group 5 oil, 30-50% group 1 oils (CAS 64742-47-8 + 64742-48-9)
viscosity 7.2 @ 100ºC, 36.5 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 165, .87 density, 102ºC flash point
unapproved rating: API TC
- - - -
Shell Advance Ultra 2T (data)
Cost: $22.83/liter
Group 3 oil
viscosity 9 @ 100C, 68.9 @ 40C, visc index 104, flash point 102C, .88 density, .11% ash
unapproved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Maxima Scooter Pro Oil (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $9.95/liter
20% synthetic (group 4 or 5), 65% group 1 + 2 oil mix (CAS 64742-48-9 + 64742-54-7)
viscosity 8.9 @ 100ºC, 44.56 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 185, density .86, 190ºC flash point
unapproved rating: API TC


Motul 710 2T (data: #1   #2)
Cost: $15.99/liter
Synthetic oil (asumed due to the viscosity index), 10-25% Group 1 oil (CAS 64742-46-7)
viscosity 8.9 mm2/s 100C, 46.4 mm2/s 40C, viscosity index 176, .86 density, 88ºC flash point
approved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Putoline MX9 (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $25.91/liter
Synthetic group 4 or 5 (unspecified), 25-50% Group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
Viscosity 8.8 @ 100C, 44 @ 40C, VI 185, flash point 78C, density .88, .26% ash
unapproved rating: JASO FD (note: with .26% ash it should be rated TC)
Note: Putoline shows MX7 to have all the same specifications and it's a little cheaper.)
- - - -
Motorex Power Synt 2T (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $26.10/liter
synthetic group 4 or 5 (unspecified), 25-50% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
viscosity 9.1 @ 100C, 50.1 @ 40C, viscosity index 164, flash point 98C, density .87
approved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Motorex Cross Power 2T (data: #1)
Cost: $19.35/liter
Synthetic group 4 or 5 (unspecified), 10-30% Group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
viscosity 9.6 @ 100C, 56 @ 40C, viscosity index 156, .87 density, flash point 110C
unapproved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Bel-Ray H1-R (data #1  #2)
Cost: $18.08/liter
group 5 synthetic Ester 2 stroke oil
For use in engines with or w/o power valve, and for racing karts.
viscosity 12.4 @ 100ºC, 141 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 72, .95 density, 202ºC flash point
unapproved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Maxima Super M (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $12.99/liter
<60% Group 5 oil (CAS 11138-60-6), 25% synthetic
Smokeless, low ash, for use in all high performance 2-stroke engines.
12.3 viscosity @ 100ºC, 96.5 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 120, density .86, 138ºC flash point
unapproved rating: Exceeds JASO FC (since it's synthetic clean burning makes it like FD. It probably has an ash level for FC though.)
- - - -
Maxima FORMULA K-2 High RPM Formula (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $17.97/liter
70% Synthetic oil, 7.5% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-88-7)
2000 centistoke esters along with special additives.
13.6 viscosity @ 100ºC, 97 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 141, density .86, 116ºC flash point
rating: unrated (since it's made for high RPM I assume it's FC due to ash cotent nad being mostly synthetic)
- - - -
Honda Pro Honda HP2 (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $17.41/liter
70-90% synthetic group 4 or 5
viscosity 17.8 @ 100C, 167 @ 40C, viscosity index 117, flash point 105C, density .94
rating: unrated (since it is made for their MX bikes I would assume FC)
- - - -
Silkolene Comp 2 Plus (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $12.99/liter
made with group 5 oil (ester)
viscosity 12.54 @ 100C, 83 @ 40C, 149 viscosity index, flash point 84C, .88 density
unapproved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Red Line AllSport (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $17.83/liter
under 45% group 5 oil (CAS 68334-05-4), under 25% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8)
For stock to moderately modified engines.
15.4 viscosity @ 100ºC, 89.6 @40ºC, viscosity index 183, density .88, 155ºC flash point
unapproved rating: JASO FC
- - - -
ELF HTX 976+ (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $29.51/liter
Group 4/5 oil
viscosity 17.7 @ 100C, 148 @ 40C, visc index 132, flash point 208C, .92 density, less than .15% ash
rating: unrated (because it's synthetic and has a low ash content I would assume FD)
- - - -
Motul 800 2T Off Road (data: #1   #2)
Cost: $17.54/liter
Group 5 oil, 6% Group 2 oil (CAS 64741-88-4)
For racing premix 2 stroke engines operating at high revs and under high load.
15.5 mm2/s viscosity @ 100ºC, 120 mm2/s viscosity @40ºC, viscosity index 135, .91 density, 252ºC flash point
unapproved rating: API TC (since it is mostly synthetic and its made for high stress engines I would assume its rating is close to FC)
- - - -
Motul Kart Grand Prix 2T (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $18.50/liter
Group 5 oil
Especially designed for karting and RC engines running at extreme revs up to 23,000 RPM.
viscosity 16.9 @ 100C, 135 @ 40C, viscosity index 136, .92 density, 256C flash point
unapproved rating: API TC (since it is mostly synthetic and its made for high stress engines I would assume its rating is close to FC)
- - - -
MOTUL 800 2T Road Racing (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $16.79/liter
Group 5 oil, 6% Group 2 oil (CAS 64741-88-4)
For racing premix 2 stroke engines operating at high revs and under high load.
viscosity 19.2 @ 100ºC, 157.4 @ 40ºC, viscosity index 140, .93 density, 274ºC flash point
unapproved rating: API TC (since it is mostly synthetic and its made for high stress engines I would assume its rating is close to FC)
- - - -
Repsol Moto Off Road 2T (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $29.95/liter
Synthetic oil for high performance 2-stroke engines
viscosity 10 @ 100C, 64 @ 40C, viscosity index 141, density .87, 130C flash point, .1% ash
approved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Repsol Moto Racing 2T (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $37.95/liter
Synthetic oil for high performce high RPM engines, including karts.
viscosity 18 @ 100C, 150 @ 40C, viscosity index 133, density .92, 200C flash point
unpproved rating: JASO FD
- - - -
Klotz BeNOL Racing Castor (data: #1  #2)
Cost: $12.62/liter
Castor oil
viscosity 15.7 @ 100C, 166 @ 40C, viscosity index 96, .93 density (estimated), 291C flash point
ratings: unrated (since it is castor oil and it's made for high stress engines I would assume its rating is close to TC)
- - - -
Husqvarna EC390 365xt
Jonsered 2188 2165 2260 2253 70e
Redmax GZ4000

Al_Smith

As far as fouling a plug I've never had one on a chainsaw .Now the old out boards often used at trolling speed would .Foul one for example on an Evinrude twin .Pull the lines .Lean it out a little and make a short speed run ,back to fishing in a couple of minutes .Those BTW were running at a 16 to 1 ratio .They didn't foul because of the oil,it was because of the carb settings .

kantuckid

Al, I too have been around long enough to have used lots of oils, mix & crankcase, so on and nothing blew up. That includes outboards that might be in a museum? HA!

What do I want to hear?-that the oils I named->Tanaka, Opti-2 and STENS full synth,  are a very good choice, that's all.

49er- OMG is all I can think of... :D  Good luck on you oil journey!
Perhaps, at least for myself, that's TMI level info., but it'll get you plenty of comments.
I'm asking about the three oil I mentioned.
Anecdotal oil data can throw you a curve though. I once put Redline (which I think of as a great product line BTW) imanual tranny oil in a BMW car that I felt was a bit notchy shifting and in a matter of a few days the transmission went out! it would have been easy to blame the oil on a lowish miles car but I just bought another used one and moved on.
Edit:

My sandwich lasted long enough to take a look at TSC website oils.  
They stock-> VP Racing Fuels, Full Synthetic for regular price-$7.99/16ox mixer btl. @ my nearest store. Unless I hear it blows stuff up, that's my next oil. Their oil has one of the more creative oil descriptions I've read? How can I go wrong on a mix oil that contains a "metal deactivator that protects from corrosive ethanol"?

49er- it meets the API and JSO FD .

It easily meets my tightwad price test too. ;D
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

sprucebunny

When you buy a new Stihl saw here, they will double your warrenty if you also buy the Stihl Ultra mix oil. I have never had a gas problem since I started using it and the gas doesn't go bad.
I'm sold. I don't care how cheap other oils are. It's not worth my time to mess around looking for another oil or fixing problems with the saws. 
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

barbender

I've found I tend to keep those that put too much thought into 2 stroke oils at arms length...I know more than a few people that use cheap gallon jugs of outboard oil from Walmart with seemingly no ill effect. The only major mechanical failures I've had were either my fault, a faulty new saw, or in one case, a bearing that let go for no apparent reason. I was running brand name saw oil at the recommended 50:1 mix at the time. The old guard saw mechanic at the dealer told me he never saw bearing failures when they recommended 32:1. So I run mine between 40:1 and 32:1 now, whether I'm using an expensive synthetic or gallon jugs from Walmart😉😁 I've also only fouled plugs in 2 strokes when the carb is adjusted or jetted too rich, never due to oil so far as I can tell.
Too many irons in the fire

kantuckid

Quote from: sprucebunny on November 18, 2019, 03:48:10 PM
When you buy a new Stihl saw here, they will double your warrenty if you also buy the Stihl Ultra mix oil. I have never had a gas problem since I started using it and the gas doesn't go bad.
I'm sold. I don't care how cheap other oils are. It's not worth my time to mess around looking for another oil or fixing problems with the saws.
I got some free oil too- read how far it is for me to buy the oil, obviously I'm looking at price AND where it can be purchased, not just price.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

lxskllr

I like full synthetic cause it gives me the warm fuzzies. I'll use dino if it falls in my lap, but if I'm paying for it, I buy synthetic. I've used Stihl, PoulanPro, VP, Weedeater, and echo. They all worked even though not all were full synth. Currently using Stihl since I got a 6pack of 5G mix bottles when I bought my last saw. I like the oil, and his prices were decent. Also bumped my warranty up.

snowstorm

i can tell ya who makes at least some of the repsol along with kimpex castrol and carquest in canada..........irving oil  couple yrs ago i went through the lab and blending dept.

PASS_AUF

Stihl MS362
Stihl FS550
Stihl FS450
Stihl FS250
Stihl FS80
Stihl 026
Husky 555FX
John Deere Gator 825i
John Deere 4066M

49er

Husqvarna EC390 365xt
Jonsered 2188 2165 2260 2253 70e
Redmax GZ4000

Stephen1

I use the sthil oil as they bumped my warranty to 2 years . I have bought 3 new sthils in the last year so I'm good for a bit.
What I did try this year was the Sthil premixed gas/oil mix. 2 year shelf life.
Pricey as all get out $35C for less that a gallon. 4 liters I think.
I do not use my equipment that much in the winter and I thought if I use that I can just leave it the saws, leave blowers, weed eaters. Well I have been busy as all get out, used it all up and needed more fuel. I went back to High octane as I needed fuel right away.
One thing I did like about it ,is all my machines started and ran better with the Sthil Premix. I never would have thought I would see the difference.
A 5 liter can of High Octane gas usually lasts about a month for me so it's not like the gas is going bad or if it is I will maybe go to the Sthill premix full time.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

49er

kantuckid, I do believe an FD oil is an ashless oil.
High rpm, above 10k, and air cooled does better with FC oil. 
Husqvarna EC390 365xt
Jonsered 2188 2165 2260 2253 70e
Redmax GZ4000

donbj

Too much name brand loyalty in a lot of oil discussion. Go with reputable oil mixed 10-20% rich an never will oil be  reason for "why did my engine quit".
I may be skinny but I'm a Husky guy

Woodmizer LT40HDG24. John Deere 5300 4WD with Loader/Forks. Husky 262xp. Jonsered 2065, Husky 65, Husky 44, Husky 181XP, Husky 2100CD, Husky 185CD

kantuckid

Quote from: 49er on November 18, 2019, 11:17:01 PM
kantuckid, I do believe an FD oil is an ashless oil.
High rpm, above 10k, and air cooled does better with FC oil.
Thanks, I just read the API wiki on 2-cycle mix oils. The VP oil from TSC lists the following: API, TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGO in it's ratings.
The "T" vs. the "F" letters are confusing as they seem to interchange?
TD was originally intended as an outboard mix oil rating and obsolete.
Wiki on JSO lists EGB,EGC and EGD not EGO as this VP Racing Fuels states. I did just read comments on modern oil ratings that were quoted from Spectro oils but none of their 2 stroke oils list EGO?
Given the ratings switches over the years the whole 2 stroke oil ratings thins is very confusing.
Given it's rated for my small engines, (I use outboard labeled oil for my small boat motor) handy to purchase and economical, VP remains my next choice. It shares ratings with the full syn Spectro oils and the Stihl Ultra I've been using and easier to buy.
I read on Arborists Forum about the Stihl oil as blended by Castrol in Shreveport, LA. The posters friend blended those oils and said the FD was the one to use.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

hedgerow

I switch over to synthetic two cycle oil about 12 years ago and started with woodland pro and bought many cases at that time the price was right. I mix it at 40:1 vs 50:1. We run normal 20 gallons a year of mixed gas. Seems to be a good oil and I have had zero issues with any of my saws. 

49er

"The Ash Additive
Oils are either "low ash" or "no ash". The word ash is referring to the remaining residue from an oil additive that is one or more minerals (Calcium or Magnesium Phenate) that serve as dry lubricants (for the rings/cylinder and power valves) that can leave an ashey residue when the engine temperature is not high enough to burn it off. So oils are rated as either "ashless" or are rated "low ash" which is either having less than .18% ash (FD rated), or as having .18% to .25% ash (TC/FB/FC rated). Most oils are TC/FB/FC rated which are made for "high heat" engines. What constitutes "high heat"? Air cooled engines, or high RPM engines (over 10K), or most small engines fit that category. But there is no definitive guideline other than looking at their spark plugs heat range which needs to match the engine heat to have their center electrode get hot enough to burn off combustion residue but not so hot as to cause pre-ignition. So for # 9 or 10 NGK spark plugs I would make sure the oil is a low ash oil for the extra protection it gives during high heat engine temperatures. This information is good to know for reducing engine wear and for reducing occurences of plug fouling. So if you want to foul plugs less often or make your rings last longer then I suggest you make sure you are using an oil that is correctly rated for your engine. "                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         A chainsaw is a high heat air cooled engine turning over 10K rpm. Yes, they use NGK #6 or #7 plugs but the plugs seldom fowl with FC oil.
Husqvarna EC390 365xt
Jonsered 2188 2165 2260 2253 70e
Redmax GZ4000

kantuckid

I rode a Yamaha MC  in the 1960's that required carrying an extra spark plug along to keep going...
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

kantuckid

I looked at Walmart 2-cycle mix oils tonite and none of their oils has ratings except the marine stuff.
Edit: Walmart.com tells the ratings not found on the bottles labels-
Their full synthetic 2-cycle oil is rated API TC and JASO FB, sold @ $1.18 per 2.6oz btl
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Snap

No particular expertise in saws, but always used Golden Sprectro in premix 2 stroke motorcycles. (YamaLube in oil injector 2 stroked). Golden Spectro worked and didn't asphyxiate riders behind. Spectro is a local company so it was widely available here. Currently using K2 in saws because of low smoke and odor and so far no issues with the saws or the blower. I'm sensitive to smoke odor so that tends to be a priority. 

Snap

Quote from: kantuckid on November 19, 2019, 10:35:35 AM
I rode a Yamaha MC  in the 1960's that required carrying an extra spark plug along to keep going...
I rode 2 in the early 70's and never had a plug foul. Maybe the Autolube system made for precise mixture.

Fishnuts2

41 years of Amsoil Saber at mix ratios of 100-1 to 32-1 in all my air cooled motors.  No problems.  No changes for me.

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