jonsered 2166

coxy · February 03, 2016, 09:05:38 AM

i have an issue with it flooding it will idle all day as soon as you pick it up it floods out same thing when your cutting with it it will run fine then you twist it side ways and hit the throttle it will flood and quit then you pull your guts out to start it back up i put a different carb on it it helped it some but as soon as the saw gets hot maybe after a half a tank of gas it starts the same thing but not as bad this has done this since the saw was new and the deal tried to fix it and couldn't if i take it some place else they tell me 4-8 weeks to fix it cause i didn't buy it from them any help would be great

lumberjack48 · February 03, 2016, 03:15:53 PM

Check the gas cap, sounds like a fuel pressure issue

coxy · February 03, 2016, 03:46:40 PM

LJ48 some one else told me that too but it would have to be the vent in the tank and was also told that you cant change the vents any more you have to buy the hole tank/handle assembly at 110 bucks :-\ :-\

old2stroke · February 03, 2016, 04:57:51 PM

Have you confirmed it's flooding by pulling the plug and seeing that it is too wet to fire? The problem sounds like vapor lock because of the fuel tank or carb getting too hot, but that would cause the saw to quit because of lack of fuel instead of flooding because of too much fuel. Maybe someone will join in with more experience with this particular saw. If pressure is building up in the fuel tank, changing the tank vent will have no effect as it is a one way valve that lets air into the tank, not the other way around, and besides that, the tank pressure would have to get pretty high before it would exceed the "pop off" pressure needed to unseat the carb inlet valve and cause flooding.

coxy · February 04, 2016, 07:00:32 AM

the reason I say flooding is after it quits you have to hold the throttle wide open to start it it will take a few times of this and then will run and smoke like crazy till it cleans its self out

weimedog · February 04, 2016, 09:13:41 AM

Wonder if you are sucking bar oil in from somewhere. Maybe leaking case gasket? Maybe under the oil pump/clutch side seal or screw hole for those two screws that hole the bar oil pump?

It could be carburetor related...an easy test for a shop is to simply swap one out. Cost of a spare carb or one from a dead saw is peanuts vs. screwing around with a lot of the other things folks do with carbs!

And when was the saw built? Always wonder about clutch side issues related to bearings and seals in the earlier versions.

If you were closer I would take a look but it is very hard to debug over a phone or on the internet and I won't deal through mail or shipping either.

49er · February 04, 2016, 01:48:37 PM

My 365xt never had a consistent idle. It would idle down after a long cut (till it would almost die) and then gain rpm's after a few seconds (if it didn't die). I eliminated the tank vent and eventually adjusted most of the idle problems out of it but it was never rock solid.
Monday I eliminated the strato dividers in the intake and it has never ran better. I was hesitant to do this but I am glad I did.

old2stroke · February 04, 2016, 03:54:40 PM

Just trying to understand the problem. Are you saying the saw runs and cuts properly until it gets hot, and then will still act normal as long as you are making vertical cuts, but as soon as you tip it on its side and make horizontal cuts it floods? In other words, is the problem related to the position of the saw and only occurs when it gets hot? There are only a few things that will cause a saw to flood and they are mainly a problem with the carb inlet valve not seating or the control lever for it being set too high, but when you tried a different carb and still had the same problem, it should have eliminated the carb. When it floods and quits, will it restart when it is still hot, or does it have to cool off before it will start? Any problem with the tank vent can be resolved by just opening and closing the tank cap every few minutes and seeing if the problem goes away.

coxy · February 04, 2016, 04:42:41 PM

it will start when hot but you pull your guts out to start it maybe 8-10 pulls it has to be wide open and it spits and sputters till its un flooded I took a carb of a good running saw just to check it helped it some but still does it 8-10 pulls not15-20 like it was if I cant figure it out tonight its going to be a track chuck for the dozer tomarrow ;) >:( >:( 8) 8) 8)

old2stroke · February 05, 2016, 03:09:55 AM

This is a strange one, but here is my theory. The oil tank is part of the crankcase body, and it is possible that the oil is being sucked/leaked into the crankcase and it is the oil that is fouling the plug, not fuel. Would also account for the smoke. There is a gasket that seals the two halves of the case and it is probably leaking or there is a hairline crack in the compartment wall between the tank and the crankcase. High temperatures and any distortion forces from the bar would make it worse. When the saw quits, pull the plug and see if it is wet with oil.
A crankcase pressure test would confirm this fault and I would do it by laying the saw on its side with the oil cap on top and the bar clamped down to a horizontal surface. With the oil tank filled to the top and the cap off, start the pressure test while pushing the rear saw handle up and down to put some distorting force into the case/tank assembly and watch for air bubbles to show up in the oil tank. The saw might have to be real hot before this test will show anything but its worth a try before tearing the saw apart.

RCBS · February 05, 2016, 09:50:42 AM

Quote from: old2stroke on February 05, 2016, 03:09:55 AM
This is a strange one, but here is my theory. The oil tank is part of the crankcase body, and it is possible that the oil is being sucked/leaked into the crankcase and it is the oil that is fouling the plug, not fuel. Would also account for the smoke. There is a gasket that seals the two halves of the case and it is probably leaking or there is a hairline crack in the compartment wall between the tank and the crankcase. High temperatures and any distortion forces from the bar would make it worse. When the saw quits, pull the plug and see if it is wet with oil.
A crankcase pressure test would confirm this fault and I would do it by laying the saw on its side with the oil cap on top and the bar clamped down to a horizontal surface. With the oil tank filled to the top and the cap off, start the pressure test while pushing the rear saw handle up and down to put some distorting force into the case/tank assembly and watch for air bubbles to show up in the oil tank. The saw might have to be real hot before this test will show anything but its worth a try before tearing the saw apart.

Your theory sounds like a good one. The saw needs a thorough pressure & vac test.

Spike60 · February 05, 2016, 10:22:29 AM

Lordy me, some of these guesses. ??? I know everybody's trying to help, but let's be careful to try and maintain FF's reputation as the forum where people really know what they are talking about.

Tank vents have always been available as a separate part. There has never been a requirement to buy the entire tank. The tank vent IS a 2 way vent, and has been for about 10 years now, well before the change to the X-torq cylinder. If you have a hose connected to the vent, you have the 2 way deal. Either way, a tank vent problem would lead to fuel starvation, not flooding. But these new vents can act a little different than the old ones when they are not working correctly. Also, the tank casting will still accept the old 1 way vent set up. And you are not supposed to use a compressor to blow out tanks for cleaning that have the 2 way valve as you can damage the valve and actually introduce a vent issue that wasn't there.

The XT's are a bit fussy with the idle setting. The early ones were really bad. In fact there was a coil and carb change halfway through 2011 to address this. The coil change involved going to a digital advance vs the previous analog advance. At the same time, the carb was recalibrated to improve the idling characteristics. Not sure why, or how big a deal it is, but the new coil is only supposed to be used with the new carb. I've never actually paid much attention to this myself. ;)

Quote from: coxy on February 04, 2016, 07:00:32 AM
the reason I say flooding is after it quits you have to hold the throttle wide open to start it it will take a few times of this and then will run and smoke like crazy till it cleans its self out

Coxy, you are correct to ID this as a flooding issue. I have seen this a couple times myself. That carb is loading up at idle causing the flooding. I'd bet that if you picked it up and pointed the bar towards the ground it would stall without even hitting the trigger. Do you have the adjustment tool needed for these things? Try to set the lo speed just barely rich enough to provide good acceleration. If that doesn't do it, it might need a new carb. Some carbs are just bad and problems cannot always be adjusted or cleaned away. Idle speed should not exceed 3000; 2800 should be a target. The ignition advance is supposed to kick in at around 3400 and if you start bumping up against that, the saw hunts and surges and drives you nuts.

49er is correct that gutting the XT dividers out gets rid of most of this fussy idle problem. I did it myself following EHP's advice and I noticed it right away. But still, most saws aren't going to have this done, and it certainly should not be necessary in order to get a good steady idle.

Hope ya solve this before you feed it to the dozer! :laugh:

49er · February 05, 2016, 01:21:40 PM

Quote from: Spike60 on February 05, 2016, 10:22:29 AM

Hope ya solve this before you feed it to the dozer! :laugh:

Yea, I have a couple of saws that have been on the wrong end of a skidder. He could use them for a chalk. :laugh:

coxy · February 05, 2016, 01:45:11 PM

Spike60 the carb that I put on there was off my other saw that ran great last night I put the (bad carb) on the other saw that ran great and no trouble so there has to be some thing in the body of the other saw that's not right so tonight ill rip it to pieces and see if I find anything that's not right ill just use it for parts that should solve my trouble ill never buy another new 2166 thinking of going to dolmar heard a lot of good things about them I have a dolmar cutoff saw that's been good to me thanks for all the help guys coxy

49er · February 05, 2016, 01:56:58 PM

I drilled a hole in my tank vent and then put a screw in the rubber hose to allow air in.
Stihl use to do this years ago. I thought this was my problem and it did seem to help idle some.

Spike60 · February 05, 2016, 03:01:26 PM

Quote from: coxy on February 05, 2016, 01:45:11 PM
Spike60 the carb that I put on there was off my other saw that ran great last night I put the (bad carb) on the other saw that ran great and no trouble so there has to be some thing in the body of the other saw that's not right so tonight ill rip it to pieces and see if I find anything that's not right ill just use it for parts that should solve my trouble ill never buy another new 2166 thinking of going to dolmar heard a lot of good things about them I have a dolmar cutoff saw that's been good to me thanks for all the help guys coxy

Problem is still fuel pooling up somewhere in the intake to cause that flooding. Could be boot related; distorted/not installed correctly. How far away are you?

Really, "never buy another one" isn't gonna get this saw fixed.

346xp · February 07, 2016, 03:13:37 PM

I mix mine 1qrt sae30hd to a gallon of the cheapest gas in can get

Spike60 · February 08, 2016, 07:32:21 AM

Quote from: 346xp on February 07, 2016, 03:13:37 PM
I mix mine 1qrt sae30hd to a gallon of the cheapest gas in can get

Wow, that's great advice.

I have a friend that thinks like that; "Smoking isn't bad for you 'cause I'm not dead yet."

beenthere · February 08, 2016, 09:19:57 AM

:D :D :D

XP_Slinger · February 16, 2016, 10:23:22 AM

To the OP...How goes the battle? Did you get your saw running properly? Getting some closure on threads such as these is of great benefit to everyone here. :P

coxy · February 16, 2016, 12:43:54 PM

never found out the real trouble i took it all a part the only thing i thought was wrong was the gasket that holds the 2 cases together was bad it looked like it had very very small pin hole leak and very little crud like it was baked on the in side of the crank case not to shur about that being the trouble but it is a parts saw now i was also told today that one of the air ports on the jug may be bad the o ring or it may have never been punched out all the way remember this saw has done this from day 1 and no one could seem to fix it ill take them off today

XP_Slinger · February 17, 2016, 11:21:30 AM

That's a shame that it's destined for the parts pile but thanks for following up. Better luck next time. 8)

weimedog · February 18, 2016, 11:18:39 PM

So why not build it ... New steel caged Nachi or NSK bearings and oem seals. Seal up those transfer caps with 1184....would be a fun project. Cut the fins out of those transfer caps too. Do a no base gasket build....Can build it as an X-torq or as an older version.

coxy · February 19, 2016, 06:48:03 AM

why is the piston different as in longer in the 2166 than the 2171 and where the wrist pin is the 71 is closed and the 66 is open why did they do that I also was looking at the crank seals on the saw that was flooding and there was a small nick in the crank seal would that have made it flood up

weimedog · February 19, 2016, 07:15:19 AM

2171 has the old style top end. All different from filter holder through the cylinder & piston than the 2166 x-torq. BUT you can put the old style top end & intake on the X-torq cases. You have a 2171 around for parts? And yes the 2166's piston and cylinder are both taller than the 2171's...again original version vs. x-torq

XP_Slinger · February 19, 2016, 07:56:50 AM

Quote from: weimedog on February 18, 2016, 11:18:39 PM
So why not build it ... New steel caged Nachi or NSK bearings and oem seals. Seal up those transfer caps with 1184....would be a fun project. Cut the fins out of those transfer caps too. Do a no base gasket build....Can build it as an X-torq or as an older version.

To the OP....If you have the time for a build I would definitely be interested in the approach and results.

weimedog · February 19, 2016, 07:59:20 AM

Last 1/3 of this video has some pics of the two styles of top ends for that series. 372=2171 372 X torq = 2166/2172 cylinder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEYfLeq4q7U

coxy · February 19, 2016, 03:23:57 PM

neat video thanks for posting I just put the old 2171 piston in the new 2166x torq top end and seem to run fine so far

weimedog · February 19, 2016, 11:25:40 PM

I just have a sneaking suspicion that it would run better if u stuffed that 2171 piston in a 2171 top end..;)

coxy · February 20, 2016, 06:11:06 AM

no one has said why the 66 piston is cut out by the wrist pin and the 71 is not ;D

coxy · February 20, 2016, 06:18:55 AM

forgot to ask will it pay on a saw to double the base gasket to change the port timing or is it a waste of time

weimedog · February 20, 2016, 09:32:02 AM

usually go the other way for better timing, why you see so many decked cylinders... and on using a 2171 piston in a 2166...

if you use a stihl 044 you might regain that compression! Wonder if the open skirt would "vent" the strato ports to the cases.....its going to vent somewhere! Question is two fold...what's the difference in the wrist pin to piston crown dimensions on those three pistons and what happens to those strato ports with a conventional piston.. (And is it a good or not so good thing)

ehp · February 21, 2016, 05:25:54 PM

Coxy, donot double the gasket. your problem most likely with your saw was you had a big air leak cause the rubber o-ring on the transfer port cover was not in its proper place . next time you have a problem like this , get the saw running and spray WD-40 around on the motor, if a air leak the engine will slow down or quit and that tells you roughly where the air leak is

Tim · October 21, 2019, 10:53:03 AM

I wish that I had seen this thread before I bought a brand new, old stock CS 2166 a couple years ago. It wouldn't idle right from the get go. It didn't take long before it would idle all day long until you touched it and it would stall. It was as though that saw would flood out but run again to do the same thing all over again.

Since then, on and off, I'd work on this source of un-holy aggravation. I've changed the seals in it, other than the crank seals (Husky mechanic eliminated these in mis-diagnosing the carb) . Put a new carb on it at the recommendation of a local Husky mechanic. Swapped a coil into it out of a 372xp. I didn't expect that would be a correct fix but, I wanted to eliminate the coil as a potential problem. Currently, it still won't idle, needs choke at any temperature to start and will not idle right. If you can cajole this saw to actually cut something, it moves wood.

I thought I had seen a post where there was a coil redesign for the CS 2166. I'm getting a little worn out on trying to solve this problem and its getting pretty close to becoming the parts for a hydraulic buck saw... Any ideas?

Tim · November 14, 2019, 04:31:04 PM

I had changed the coil. There was an update to it about 1/3rd of the way through the years that they built them. That wasn't the problem either. Neither was the de-compressor that I swapped out of it for a plug... (maybe).

When I bought the saw, I notice that the jets couldn't be adjusted much. This adjustment was certainly nothing like you could with previous Jonsered models with Walbro carbs (RWJ-48 ). When looking at the screws for the jets, you can see the casting for the carb body, then there is a ring around the screw heads for the jets. The screw heads sit inside this ring, one for each.

I backed the low speed jet out of the carb body. That ring will come out with it and a spring. pull the ring and spring off the jet screw. Put the spring back on and carefully re-install it in to the carb. I did the same for the high speed jet. I opened both a full turn. The saw runs like it should before some dumbass bureaucrat got a hold of a pen.

Gearbox · November 14, 2019, 09:32:15 PM

Tim there is a tool to adjust those carbs . I just did a 2166 tonight and opened the high speed a 1/16 turn . brought it from 13500 down to 12800 . Just where I like them to run . Where I live we have to much temp swing in the winter to wind them up to much .Amason has a tach and tool set for $ 27 .

charles mann · December 07, 2019, 11:02:35 PM

I know this is an old thread. Iv got a 2166 i bought back in 2015. A couple yrs ago i had the exact same problem, ran fine till it got hot. It would start but i had to play with the throttle just to keep it running but couldnt get it throttle up enough to cut. I talked to a coworker who is a saw guru and he said. I bought a new carb put it on and it hasnt failed yet. I do NOT run pump gas anymore in my air cooled engines. I run 100LL, which was designed to run in air cooled engines. I put a smidgen more oil that is called for and after a jug of gas, i add seafoam to the mix to clean them out. Benn doing the seafoam for 2 yrs and no more issues.