Water Well Problem

[Jeff]

Our Well has been gettign weaker and weaker over the summer. If we try to do tow things of anything, say like flush the toilet and run the washing machine, the pump loses prime.  There is very littrle water pressure.  The last few days just running a load of laundry has caused the well to lose prime.  Today it happened again but I can't get the pump to stop running, even with the supply shut off to the house.  When you turn the water on to the house now we get nasty brown rusty water coming in, but very little then it stops again and the pump loses prime. I now see that there is water coming out of the regulator. Its coming out the little vent hole. just seeping out.  THis is a deep well pump, the well is about 87 feet.  We hope to have money for a new well in about 35 days or som but need to try to find a band aid for this.  Also, this well had a new pump, drop pipe and screen only about 5 years ago. The well is arounf 25 years old.

Any Ideas?

Needing a shower.... ;D

[Dan_Shade]

when you say loosing prime, you mean the water is running back down the pipe and it won't get started again?

Is your pressure tank full of air?  that will cause a pump to overwork, also if your pressure switch isn't working (could be related to the pressure tank not having air)...

i've played with well pumps some but not too much...

[Jeff]

THe pressure tank has pressure.   When you go out there and remove the plug from the pump, there is no water in it.  You have to have water to refill the pump, then put the plug back in. It will run a few seconds then you will here it catch and the pressure will start raising on the guage. The pressure switch is only 1 year old. It just seems like its pumping itself out, and now it only takes a few moments.  I just got it going long enough for me to take a shower and it ran out of water just as I got done.

[PawNature]

Jeff is it a submersible pump. It doesn't sound like it from your discription. If not you might want to pull it and look at the check valve, and make sure ther are no holes in you line going down the well. If you got iron water it can eat up a system in less that 5 yrs.

[Jeff]

The pump is above ground two stage deep water pump. Its not submerged. Its in a well house.  The Dang thing cost over 600 bucks 5 years ago thats not counting the 80 foot of drop pipe they charged me for plus the new screen.  We really have almost perfect water. We used to have relatives come from all over to get it for thier Aquariums because of the balanced PH.  If you put water in the pump and leave the plug out, the water does not go down. We have never had rust and crud come out of that well until the last 3 days or so

[Slabs]

Jeff

I think you described some of the components of a jet pump and system.  If so and the "regulator" is leaking that could cause the pump to lose prime.  No part of the system should ever "leak".  Often in warm-humid weather the pump base will "sweat" enough to appear leaking but this isn't the case. The regulator sets up the"loop" pressure between the pump and jet.  When the system is first started up the regulator is set to near maximum pressure, pump and loop primed and pump started.  The regulator is adjusted "out" or to a lower loop pressure until the loop guage begins to waver or pulse.  Then the regulator pressure is increased until the gauge reads steady.  When the loop is started, the pump circulates prime water down through the return loop to the jet and forces water through the jet causing a low pressure on the intake and foot valve.  As water is drawn into to the loop, the pressure overcomes the regulator valve and vents off the excess pressure in the loop to the tank and user system.  As the demand for water becomes steady, the loop discharge becomes constant and provides water from the loop as long as there is a demand.  The pressure switch shuts down the pump and subsequently the rest of the system when the system pressure is satisfied.

Many aquifers in the country are diminishing severely.  I hope this isn't the case with yours.  What happens is that the "draw-down" level in the aquifer recedes and may possibly go below the screen.  In this case the pump will draw air until it looses prime.  Sometimes the solution is to drop the casing a few feet but if it is already at the bottom of the aquifer then the aquifer has gone"dry" or below the capacity to provide your system with water.  Then the only solution is a new or deeper well.  

I hope the regulator is your problem.  That's an easy replacement or sometimes a diaphragm replacement is possible.

Good luck

[Mooseherder]

Jeff,  I have replaced my pump 4 times in 13 years.
2 of them were because of impellers.
1 was because my daughters ran over with a golf cart.
Check valve could have some blockage/particles holding it open.
Impeller might be bad (Rust Issue)
Is there a water filter plugged up?
There might be sediment that closed in on the screen.
Hows the piping from the well to the house underground.  Any heavy trucks come by lately?

[pigman]

Sounds to me the well is not producing enough water. :(  The easiest solution would be to draw straws on who gets to take a bath each day. You just have to hope that one of you is not unlucky and never gets to bathe. If that happens the house will get stinky. Around here we just go to the creek when the  cistern goes dry. I did notice a lake not too far from your house. :P When it freezes over you will need to break the ice. ;)
Bob -trying to be helpful

[Coon]

I have ran systems such as Jeff has mentioned.  There could be a few different problems at stake and they could also be combining to make this very large problem.  Your local water table may be down thus causing your foot valve to be letting it suck air, or your well screen could simply be plugged with rust and crud.  I have also seen jet pumps burn out seals in the pump when the pump has been run without enough water.  The water is used to keep the seals cool and once ran hot a few times they finally just let go and cause problems.  With a leaking regulator it could very well have caused the pump to kick in and run hot burning out the seals especially if the water supply is low.   Check your well screen first thing in the morning if you're affraid of the dark that is.   :D :D :D

Brad.

[dave7191]

 Jeff is that a old enough system that it has a sand point on the casing
If it does the point may have plugged up and all you can do is to have it pulled and put back down good luck wells can be a dan g problem

[sperry]

Jeff,

This is my day job for almost 40 years now so maybe I can help. but I need to qualify a few of your statements. When you say it's a deep well system, that means it has 2 pipes going to the well, correct? When you say it loses prime, you do have to pour water in it to get it going again, correct? Well diameter? Is the top of well above ground?
It sounds like your pumping the water out faster than the well well can supply it, but that shouldn't just start.

[Jeff]

sperry,  I'm calling it a deep well pump because thats what the well guy called it when I had to buy the expensive pump. I only see one pipe going down the well.  When I say its losing prime, when I put the plug on the pump, the pump is dry and when we fill the pump with water and replace the plug the water usually restarts. Mosttimes we have to pull the plug two or three or even four times, refilling before we get it going.

[Nailhead]

Jeff
I'm no expert, but it sounds like the foot valve (check valve) That would require pulling the pipe to replace.
NH

[Jeff]

Pulling the pipe is beyond me. I dont know what is down there for sure, but I paid for 80 foot of drop pipe last time and its all steel.  This is an old two inch well. Not even legal to put in here any longer.

[SwampDonkey]

Sounds like ya might have to pry open the wallet. I hope not though. Too many piggy roasts might be bearing down on the well.  ???

[Jeff]

Were goign to the bank Tomorrow. Didnt want to but hopefully they remember how much they have made off of me the last quarter century.  I dont have a job and Tammy's job is very new and banks not being real personal any more its hard to say what they will say. We were hoping to be able to afford a well earlier in the year but it looks like we'll have to take out a short term loan.  I HATE THAT. >:(   I wrote an email to a near neighbor that does wells that was going to do mine when I called him. He wrote me right back.

Jeff,
Its not too late... Its actually never too late. It sounds like your 
current well may be on its last leg (there is likely a hole in the 
casing that the pump tries to keep filling with water).  It would help 
tremendously if you would pull a permit from the health department (and 
request they actually come out to your house to make sure you are far 
enough away from all septics).... Make sure to tell them that you are 
having fits and your friendly well driller told you your existing well 
is nearly dead...

Let us know when you are ready and we will get here as soon as possible.

Also, Jeff, you don't need anything to get started.  We always square 
up with you when we are done with the well...

Thanks!
Shane

On Nov 4, 2006, at 8:06 PM, Jeff Brokaw wrote:

> Hi Shane, We are still in the market of a well, just been waiting for 
> some money to come through that has been delayed on us. Our well has 
> been quitting on us bad the last few days. I guess we will try to go 
> in monday and get a short term loan to get this done.  I dont know 
> whats with this well. Keeps losing prime and now the pump wont shut 
> off.  Let me know what we need to get this started if its not to late 
> for this year.
>
> Jeff

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah probably never too late in the season to drill. New neighbors drilled in December and struck an artesian. The water was spewing from it all winter long like a fountain. The lawn was a little icy by winters end though. ;)

[sperry]

Sounds like the best thing to do Jeff. I assume you'll be getting a 4 or 5" well. It will be much easier to service when the time comes.
It's never a good time to have to spend the money, but the price will be higher if you wait.

[Jeff]

Here is the quote I got this spring. I was wondering how this compares to around the country?

[Radar67]

Jeff, my neighbor just had a well drilled for his new house. I caught the driller there and talked to him for a few minutes. I asked him about a quote for the well I will have drilled when I start my house. Since it is close to the well he was drilling, he quoted me 3200 for the whole set up: 160 feet depth (the neighbors depth), deep well pump, pressure tank, etc. Ready to run when he finishes. He also said it was $9 a foot for deeper.

Stew

[Jeff]

What size well?

[Dana]

Jeff, with what kind of people do you associate with to get the "hood discount"? :D :D :D Seriously what is it?

[moosehunter]

Jeff,
We had our well drilled 4 years ago. aproxx $1900, but drilling and casing is all they did. I did the pump/wiring/ plumbing myself.

mh

[Radar67]

Jeff, that is for a 4 inch well.

Stew

[thecfarm]

I have heard of you speak of the PVC for a well casing before.Differant around here.All that I am aware of is 8 inch by ¼ metal casing.This is what I have.We was very lucky with ours in the year 2000.They had to use casing the first 40 feet,than they hit ledge and drilled another 100 feet and hit 40 GPM.Came in at $3800.Everything done.This is on the low side.Most come in at $5-6000 is normal.