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Cantilever Design Sawshed.

Started by Chris Burchfield, February 22, 2006, 08:16:52 PM

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Chris Burchfield

Number one, I am not an engineer. However, I feel like if I build it, it shall (as in code)  be stout. I tend to over do things. Of course with strength, I've broken things that really did not need to be broken. Or stripped bolt threads that I used too much pressure on. I want to build a cantilever design saw shed. One that I can pull Glenda under, drive out of and have free opening on the side for loading logs of at least 20 feet in length and maybe plus six feet.  I have the LT40SH W/Command Control Station which I can add 1 (6') extension. I've not called the factory to see what the max. log lenth would be with the extension. 21 is called for the way she sits though I'm staying at 20 footers from knowledge shared on this site as max.  I've looked on "search: Sawshed" and did not find anything like what I was after. Any suggestions? TYIA, Chris in Memphis.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

Bibbyman

Are you looking to build a complete enclosed building or just a pavilion roof over your mill?

If you're looking to build a roof to park and saw under and need access for loading long logs,  I seen one down in Mt. Vernon, MO. at the Wood-Mizer field service center there.  Will Baugh, the service manager there, has a building that is 30-40' long and 24-30' wide.  It has a row of posts down the middle and a row along the back.  But there are no posts on the front side.  The mill sets on this half and there is unlimited access to the front and ends of the mill.  I'm not sure if I've got any clear picture of that building.

If you need an enclosed building,  the best way to make an opening that wide is to do it on the gable end. 

Doors may be a problem – we looked at rollup doors but they're pretty expensive in widths like 30' (think airplane hangers) and require quite a bit of headroom to install.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

isassi

A cantilever building is simple to draw, but no so simple when it comes to materials to choose and making it work. The easiest way to get what you want is determine the total width of the roof, and if you want it single slope or gabled. From an engineering point, the gable would possibly be easier, simply due to having a truss to work with. If the truss is supported in the middle, then the side wall that is enclosed, in theory, supports no building weight, but in reality, will anchor the building's lateral movement. Kind of like drawing a letter "T" with the cross of the "T" being the width of the building. If you place a leg under one side of the "T", then you see the basic idea. That leg would have to be able to withstand a lifting moment and a compression moment. Since trusses are engineered to make a "span" between 2 or more supports, it is not designed for what you are doing but will work if properly constructed.

A single slope would need a structural member stiff enough to support half the roof load and transfer it to the center support without failing, like a large "I" beam. Big enough beams and columns, and it will work fine. I might be able to work out the material sizing if you give me an idea of size, snow load and wind load, and what you are going to build it out of.

Bibbyman; Have you ever seen bi-fold doors? It is a wall with a lateral hinge in the center, and guided from each jamb, and hoisted up. Kind of like folding a playing card in the middle. The only disadvantage is loosing a few feet of headroom when the door is up, and of course, it is heavy. Best part is you can fabricate it yourself and when it is down, it is just like a wall. Holler back and I will see if I can snap a picture of one and post it.

WH_Conley

If I did it right here is what I did. Posts are set for basically a 12 foot frame, then I put 20 foot beams up cross ways then put 24 foot truses on top, with another 12 feet on the end for a total of 36 feet plus the eve. Boils down to 9 feet of roof over the mill and 13 feet on the "hold down" side. Also where mill is set up is a foot higher than the other side, only have to haul sawdust once a week. Hope this gives you some ideas without being too confusing.



Bill

highpockets

I like that shed.  I am just starting a shed project.  Think I'll do it that way. Thanks
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

Chris Burchfield

Bibbyman, I think just to be out of the rain or sun initially. I may enclose three sides after the initial shelter is built. Were you refering to the West end of Will's building where he parks his saw? I remember seeing it but did not pay that much attention to it. I picked my mill up at Will's. As far as material, I think Oak, red or white. For some reason I think I read that white oak may be stronger. I'm thinking that if two post are sunk inline, with a triangle truss assembly on top, half could hang off unsupported. This would leave one end and center of a truss supported. I know it'll take time but I'm thinking along the line of Post and Beam type construction. I only want to build it one time.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

JimBuis

Chris,

Some years ago, we owned a house that had a cantilevered carport attached.  It was a double carport.  The cantilevered side was held up by a laminated beam half of which was built into the side the house.  The other end projected out to support that side of the carport roof.  The other side of the carport roof sat on two posts.  This left one long side and the end away from the house with no posts under it.  It was quite well done and was a joy to pull a car in and out of as there were no posts in the way.  The roof on top of this was a conventional A-frame kind of roof and was shingled.

Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

TexasTimbers

I need to take some more sawmill pics for pockets today so I'll snap a few pics of the shed I threw up for the bandmill. I used what i had. It has worked out nicely so far and faced at least 65+ MPH wind gusts and survived, despite the fact I have never added the cross bracing I think it needs. :o
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

RMay


this is Wills saw shed that Bib was taking about
RMay in Okolona Arkansas  Sawing since 2001 with a 2012 Wood-Miser LT40HDSD35-RA  with Command Control and Accuset .

Minnesota_boy

If you plan to use a truss to make that cantilevered roof, make sure you get ones designed for that application.  Most are designed to have a support on each end with the middle unsupported.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

TexasTimbers

Finally getting around to posting the pics. Here is the intital construction of the shed before I realized I hadn't considered something (that's my lovely bride and da boy's during a lunch break. I do allow them an ocassional meal during construction.)....




setting the powerhead...




Won't be needing this anymore..




that "something I hadn't thought of" was the fact that during the summer, the prevailing wind dictates that the powerhead should run along the track from West to East when the blade is in the cut ... so I had to remove one of the telephone poles and do a little creative framing to allow the saw to pass beyond the shed once I added more track (which I still haven't done but coming soon).



Here's a better view ..



A close up ....



Finally, a view from the east - notice by now I had already "bumped" the top of the shed ....




Oh  yeah, everyone else like to show off their log dogs I am no exception. That's mom and son. Can you believe a red dog turned out 3 blak and 3 white pups but no red ones?  ....




The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

ronwood

kevjay,

Why did you replace your bed?

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

TexasTimbers

If you look in the archives you'll see that initially I spoke well of the Norwood frame. After using it alot more I just wasn't happy with the stoutness. I knew I could build a frame that w-o-u-l-d- n-o-t- b-u-d-g-e. And so I did. I also have way down on the list to throw an axle underneath the norwood frame so I can put the powerhead on it so it's mobile too. In reality I will probably never do it. I'm going to get a WM or WM equivalewnt for that but it's way down the list too.
Finally, I wanted to build my own so I could add on to it easily (and much cheaper than buying the Norwood track). I have poured the piers all I have to do is set the I beams and weld the angle iron on it and I'll be able to cut up to 36 feet long.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Chris Burchfield

Yep, I think Will's is very close to what I'm after. Hit 40 hours on the mill and took time to tighten the tribelt. I'm fortunate, I have a push/pull dial guage to set the 18 lbs and 7/16" deflection. Also added the glow plug protection WM sent first of the month. Spose to protect the glow plugs from burn out. Trips after 17 seconds. Wasn't hard to do, just a little time. Thanks for the picks. I had so much saw dust in my eyes at Will's didn't pay much attention to my surroundings. By the way, Will's batting 200 on setting up into the wind. When I picked my mill up and the Little Rock show, the command control station was down wind. Had to poke a little fun his way. :D :D :D
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

Dana

Are your post well secured into the ground? I can't help thinking you got a huge airplane wing there. It would be a shame to have her take off.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

highpockets

Kev, that is an interesting looking shed.  I am kind of like Dana about the wind problem.  My friend gave me some 6x8 treated post the other day. I had planned on doing something similiar to yours. What I want to know is what size perlin are you using and what is the size of the shed?  I am assuming 10".

Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

Minnesota_boy

I was thinking that one good snowfall would have that roof wrapped all twisted up across the mill, until I looked at the locattion.  Most roofs here are either built really strong, or they are replaced.  :o ::)
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

isassi

Hey Chris; Since you are up north, you may want to consider a pretty steep pitch if you use gables trusses for the roof. A 6/12 pitch can reduce snow loading and increase strength. If you build the trusses, you need to give thought to the transfer of loading from the bottom chord (as in span design) to the top chord, and making sure the mechanical connections (gussets) will not seperate.

As to the "lift" or behaving as an airplane wing will, The design and location of the roof has everything to do with amount of lift generated by a roof. On gabled roofs, the ridge acts as a "spoiler" in effect, spoiling the "lift" of the wing.  A very flat pitch or single slope roof is much more prone to wind gusting and "going flying" then other roof designs. However you build it, put the supports DEEP in the ground, and you will have a great building.

TexasTimbers

Yes I drilled 6' deep with an 18" auger and inserted 4" drill casing with 1/2" steel pads welded on top of that. The poles are mechanically fastened to that in way that is not the weak link.
I still don't have the bracing I want on the long (south) side so wracking is the biggest threat.
The airplane wing effect is a danger too I guess, but the way I have it attached, R-Panel itself would be ripped off before the whole thing need clearance form the local airport.
A small tornado would crumple it up like nobody's business, but so far, as I said, it has withstood 65+ MPH straight line thunderstorm winds. I know because I was out there watching. I was suprised how steady it was, unlike me who was leaning to and fro to keep from being blown over.
Overall, it isn't as stout as I want, but it's stouter than it looks I agree.

P.S. Yes I know 18" x 6' is extreme overkill, but I had 2 pallets of old sackrete that had seen too much moisture and I had to do something with it!
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

highpockets

kevjay

Kev, that is an interesting looking shed.  I am kind of like Dana about the wind problem.  My friend gave me some 6x8 treated post the other day. I had planned on doing something similiar to yours. What I want to know is what size perlin are you using and what is the size of the shed?  I am assuming 10" perlin.    That looks like some log runs on the perlin but if it works, I may try it.


Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

TexasTimbers

'pockets, they are 8" perlin. It is 18' X 25'. Here is how the poles are anchored to the pads. I have two 3' lengths of angle running up the pole on both sides and anchored with 6" GRK lags. Those were meant to be temporary but you know how that goes.




It looks dangerous and maybe it is I don't know for sure. So far nothing I have ever built has come crashing down, and I have built more stuff than i can remember. Don't get me wrong, if something is going to humble me it will probably be this shed you guys have got me all nervous, I'm going to finish it pronto! :o
After I first put it up I wanted to get to sawing and I mounted my powerhead and started cutting. That's how I always do my own stuff - finish it half-butt and it never gets done ::)
Well, not long after I set the powerhead, like a few days, the wife says "honey did you see the wetaher we've got thunderstorms starting tomorrow." and I says "Great we need some rain." Never thinking about that unfinished, insufficiently braced sawmill cover. Short story is I find myself the next morning racing out to the property because all hades had broke loose and now I remembered why the wife was trying to tell me except i didn't put 2 + 2 together, to snatch the powerhead off the tracks and put it in the shop because I am pretty well betting this unfinished shed (as it stands today) is gonna squash my pretty new mill. Well I tied some bowlines in record time and plucked her up and stowed her safely in the shop. And I stood there in the opening of the roll-up door of the shop watching in disbelief as that shed stood practically rock solid still in those 65+ MPH winds. Stuff was blowing all over my property but that shed just moved back and forth ever so slightly, with rain billowing all up and over it highlighting the low pressure area above it.
Not tempting fate though. Y'all ahve got me sufficiently on guard that I should finish bracing it and putting the back cover on it.
I guess I gave you a longer non-answer than what you were wanting. :)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

getoverit

There are plenty of gas stations that have gone out of business and the buildings are sitting vacant.... has anyone thought about buying one of those gas pump sheds for use as a sawshed?  They seem to hold up to most anything except hurricane winds, and most of them seem to survive even a hurricane..... just a thought... like this:


I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

highpockets

Kevjay,

Thanks for the reply.  I just hadn't thought of spanning that length with the perlin.  I did add a 15'x39' extension on my shop about three years ago and spanned 15' with 8".  I put 4" lathes on top of that.  I may try what you did.   

I have some 7" and some 9 5/8" oilfield casing. I'm thinking of digging a ditch with my backhoe about 7' deep and bury the post.   I like it.

Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

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