Sawing fir

[fluidpowerpro]

Had a guy drop off these 9 logs for me to saw. I'm pretty sure they are fir (Douglas or Balsam??) but if not please correct me.
He would like it sawn into 1x and 2x4's. I have not sawn fir before. All those knots look challenging.
I also wonder if because he just cut them and it is spring that there will be more sap. Should I be concerned? Does fir stain like Red Pine?
Any guidance will be appreciated, otherwise like always, I'll just give it a go and see what happens.
Thanks,
Tom

[PoginyHill]

Looks like white spruce to me. And pasture spruce with those large knots. (Grew in the open in its younger years, where lower branches continue to grow rather than die or self-prune with the shade of neighboring trees)

[Resonator]

Yup, that "Fir" sure looks like Spruce.

Spruce usually means hard knots, slower speed (in the knots), plenty of lube, and plan on changing the blade often. I keep a 4' level handy to check for waves on the cut. Stack on stickers as soon as sawn, it can mold.

[fluidpowerpro]

Ya, since the first post did a little detective work and read on the Google that the needles on spruce are kind of flat and fir is round. Went and took a closer look and these aren't round.

[Nealm66]

Young Doug fir like that with thinner bark will also be orangish red inside. Will turn yellow after 100-150 years 

[memopad]

That looks like white spruce to me. I milled some last fall after cutting some big trees at the edge of a pasture. Lots of large knots but I was just using it for siding boards on my mill barn. I have a hard time getting a straight cut, lots of waviness from the knots and also the grain of the tree is kind of wavy too. If you really need a straight cut, I've had good luck cutting two cants, putting them side by side on the mill, and then cutting them together. Since the grain and knots on both cants don't line up, the blade tends to stay straighter for me.

[fluidpowerpro]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. 
I've never heard of using 2 cants that way but it sure seems like a great idea. 

[Resonator]

The most waves I get are usually in the opening faces squaring up the cant, once the bark slabs are gone and it is clean square wood it tends to cut better. I'll if there are waves I'll shave a thin cut off the cant before I do the saw through. Also as I stack the boards on stickers I'll put the edges against each other, and check how flat it is cutting.

[barbender]

 Definitely white spruce. With the bigger knots, it can make you pull your hair out. It's one of those woods that will magnify any "out of tune" components on your mill. A fresh sharp blade, a lot of set, and slow feed speeds work best for me. 

[thecfarm]

I am glad I have very little spruce on my land.

[Magicman]

If you really need a straight cut, I've had good luck cutting two cants, putting them side by side on the mill, and then cutting them together.

I have never sawed Spruce, but I did try sawing two logs:

Lets just say that it will never happen again.

[Nealm66]

lol, don't know till you try!

[barbender]

 I'll say again (it's a bit of a personal rant😁) I don't think the hardness of the knots in spruce is what causes the problem, or even the differential in hardness between the knots and regular wood. If When you get waves with spruce, it will start several inches before, and end several inches after the knot. It's not like the blade dives because it knows the knot is going to be hard😁

 More than any other wood, spruce (and especially with knots over 1") gets really peculiar grain in the whorls around the knots. Instead if ripping along the grain, the blade will almost be crosscutting perpendicular grain sometimes. Add to that the long fiber structure of spruce (the reason it is the preferred fiber for high quality paper), and that grain fuzzes up and while redirecting your blade has the added "benefit" of rubbing the blade and heating it up. Kind of a perfect storm for a wave😊

 Spruce trees that are not open grown, with small diameter knots behave much differently, and aren't any special challenge to saw. They will reward you with nice, light, and strong framing lumber. 

 FPP, those logs look not the worst. You'll notice some of the knots have formed raised bumps around the base of the knot. Those are the ones that will have the funny grain around them.

[SwampDonkey]

Spruce with large knots you can't get rid of here. The sawmills consider it reject. They want knots 1" or smaller and whorls several inches apart.

[NE Woodburner]

read on the Google that the needles on spruce are kind of flat and fir is round

I seem to remember the saying that "fir is flat" to help identify fir vs. spruce. I was taught to pick a needle and try to roll it between my finger and thumb. If it rolled it was spruce. If it was flat and didn't want to roll it was fir.

[SwampDonkey]

Spruce have a pulvinus on the end of the needle to attach, balsam fir don't. Spruce needles are square edged and sharp pointed, more so in red spruce or black. Sometimes Amabilis fir is called balsam out west. Balsam is more northward. Balsam fir needles generally lay flat if shaded, but in full sun they tend to spiral up the stem and can appear spruce like when not up close.

[barbender]

The easiest way for me to tell is that balsam fir needles are soft, and smell nice. White spruce needles are stiff and sharp, and they have a skunky odor.

[fluidpowerpro]

Finished sawing the logs. Considering all of the knots, not as bad as I thought but still a few waves. I figure Ill tell the customer that those are strategically placed to allow enhanced air flow while drying if the boards are edge to edge.  ( just kidding)
Because the trees were just felled this spring I was worried that the sap would be bad but it wasn't. Definitely not as bad as White Pine.
Spruce is the lightest wood I have ever sawn. Even wet it was really easy to move around. I can see why Howard Hughes selected it to build the "Spruce Goose". Ended up with about 560bf.

[Wlmedley]

Lumber looks pretty good.I have only sawn one spruce and the only reason I knew what it was members on here identified it for me.It was a replanted Christmas tree and full of knots.I wasn't expecting much but got some pretty good 1" lumber and like you said it is really light especially after it drys a little.