Just got this from the MN director of Forestry directed to: State Timber Permit holders
As you may know, funding for most state government operations has not been
appropriated beyond June 30 of this year. At this time, we do not know whether the
biennial budget process will conclude in time to avoid a disruption to our timber harvest
operations. In the meantime, the DNR is developing plans to minimize the disruptions to
our permit holders.
The DNR will not be invoking cancellation or termination clauses for contracts or
permits, but all work will be suspended as of July 1, 2011. Additionally, sale openings
will be suspended, beginning 4:30 p.m., Friday, June 24. Please consider this your
notice that any cutting block that has not been secured or has not had a presale
meeting may not be opened after June 24. For example, any block currently being
harvested may be completed (as long as the work is done by June 30), but new blocks
may not be opened after June 24.
Further details about any timber harvest suspension will be sent June 24 if the potential
shutdown becomes more likely. We sincerely regret the need to take this action and
appreciate your full cooperation. Please contact your state timber sale administrator if
you have questions.
I reviewed my timber permits and do not see any provision for suspension or cancellation other than if I violate any of the terms. So I don't know where they are finding that clause to invoke. Don't see how they can do it, but that's what they plan. ::)
We've had the same thing happen here in Michigan the past 2 years, but then they passed a budget to go forward just 1 minute before midnight to avoid the shut down. Michigan's fiscal year ends on September 30th, similar to the Feds who have been doing this on a regular basis for the past several years.
If the government agencies don't have any money they just "shut down" no matter what the contract says. Only essential services are allowed to continue and timber harvesting isn't one of the essential services.
It doesn't seem like that they can do this to you legally if you bought the timber. Will this shut you down, too?
Government knows best, Libs must be thrilled over the Power. ::)
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have."
"When government grows Liberty decreases"
TJ
"They can blow levees too, biting the hand that feeds and clothes them."
chain
I sure wish the US Government would run out of whatever fund it is that allows them to spend tens of millions of your money here to destroy the Amazon with laws pushed thru the Peruvian Congress in the name of the "enviornment". Absolute ignorance on behalf of the American Congress.
I cannot believe they understand what they have done. Ironic that this area is going into a shut down of legal business and pushed into cocaine production because of an excess of American money.
For the past 8 years, Pennsylvania hasn't had their budget in place on time. They didn't shut down any operations, and merely kept on running on the previous year's budget. This year they might get one done on time.
On a side note, I talked to a log buyer yesterday and he said a lot of the loggers have parked their logging equipment in the northern part of the state. They're running equipment in the shale gas area. How does this affect government stumpage in the area or private stumpage? No one buying or selling except to clear off for drilling pads.
Up here everyone from landowners to the native community are hard against shale gas. As most of us NB know, not much of it will ever benefit NB. The gas and the $$ leave and the government gets a meager penance in royalties. Everyone is afraid of water contamination.
Quote from: WDH on June 20, 2011, 07:20:58 AM
It doesn't seem like that they can do this to you legally if you bought the timber. Will this shut you down, too?
Yes, it will put me out of work as all I have right now is state timber sales to cut. It sounds like the state is planning to shut down road construction jobs too.
I can't believe they will actually do this, but the governor is dead set on spending more money than projected revenues and is demanding a tax increase only on the rich. So he is saying to the people, don't worry, someone else is going to pay for my spending desires, not you. ::)
Unbelievable :).
Quote from: WDH on June 23, 2011, 04:36:29 PM
Unbelievable :). it sure is, it's about time the upper class do their part in helping to pay the way to a better future for the middle and lower class hard workers that pay more then their fair share!! shut the damned state down till it hurts them!! god knows we already feel it .....
there not suspending the open sales, or not allowing u to work, u just cant buy any new sales since they wont be in the office, they are telling u to plan ahead
Quote from: gunman63 on June 23, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
there not suspending the open sales, or not allowing u to work, u just cant buy any new sales since they wont be in the office, they are telling u to plan ahead
Not in any way true. You will not even be able to use the state forest roads from what we are being told now. As of tomorrow, you will not be able to open any new sales and if the shutdown happens, all logging will stop.
Your getting diferent info than up north here , the state forest roads remain open, just as state highways remain open, the reason for not opening the state sales after that date is the paper work wont get done, so do it before hand, get your walk thru and meetings done. not all logging will stop and the sky wont fall, the sun will still come up in the morning, and set at nite, the end of the world isnt coming. just in any business or life , need to plan ahead. :)
Yesterday I got my marching orders for the shutdown. My sale has an approved landing so I will be able to haul any products from that landing only for two weeks and then that ends. Absolutely no cutting or forwarding from woods trails. Essentially what I heard before that all logging will stop at midnight tonight. The only thing different is the state forest roads will remain open.
There is going to be a lot of pain over this one. Most loggers do not have private timber sales to move to during this shutdown. And all road construction projects will be suspended too. My forester claims the state has the absolute right to do this as he claims we do not have contracts, they are just permits that they can alter at will. Problem is it would probably cost over $100k in legal fees just to challenge their assertions. Lucky for me that I did have one private sale to move to and am working on getting that contract signed now. But it requires a move of some 100+ miles.
I did not think it would come to this. The two sides are still talking today, but they agree there is not enough time left to make an agreement, gather the legislature and get it passed and signed by midnight. And if they do go thru with the shutdown, it will not be lifted for three working days after the new budget is passed. At 4 PM today, they are evicting campers from the state park campgrounds.
Minnesota's governor, Mark Dayton was our US Senator where he was declared "worst senator" by Time Magazine I think. So now the guy is going to be declared our worst governor for vetoing a balanced budget. He is holding out for more taxes (only on the rich) and spending. ::)
You'se Minnesotans seem to have a knack for voting in the wierd ones, but maybe this impasse will be a blessing in disguise. Hold this Gov's feet to the fire and put all the blame on him.
I hope the state is open come Saturday, as I've plans to head to MN then. I wonder if the drawbridge at Prescott will be down, or should I sneak across at LaCrosse?
I'm thinking you won't have to move, as the State of MN will not be closed down. Just my opinion. ;)
These government shutdown fiascos are here to stay, I'm afraid. Remember the US Congress and the almost-shutdown Federal government several months ago? It was all "saved" in the 11th hour by a temp fix. Well, in August, it's going to happen all over again. More wasted time and wasted money, which we don't have anyway. The legislatures only have their own best interests in mind IMO.
I say "Go Green in 2012: Recycle Congress!" when we vote.
sorry for your plight, but its time those of means should feel the heat the rest of us have for the past 8 years of "TPAW" .... perhaps the reps. will see the light of day and give mark dayton the dem. a chance to set the record straight again... ?? WHERES JESSY ??
Quote from: beenthere on June 30, 2011, 02:31:38 PM
I hope the state is open come Saturday, as I've plans to head to MN then. I wonder if the drawbridge at Prescott will be down, or should I sneak across at LaCrosse?
It's my understanding the lift bridge at Stillwatter will be left open as river traffic has priority. Haven't heard about Prescott though. You better go another way. There's Winona, Wabasha, and Redwing too. And it's a nice drive on Hwy 61 along the river.
Quote from: chucker on June 30, 2011, 02:35:44 PM
sorry for your plight, but its time those of means should feel the heat the rest of us have for the past 8 years of "TPAW" .... perhaps the reps. will see the light of day and give mark dayton the dem. a chance to set the record straight again... ?? WHERES JESSY ??
Thanks for the sympathy, but I don't understand the rest of what you said. It's my understanding that even our not so beloved governor has stashed all of the family fortune from the Dayton and Target stores in the Dakota's where they have no state income tax. And the rest of the rich will just do the same if he raises their taxes. So even if the legislature did agree, the state would not realize much from only the stupid rich that did not evade the tax increase. So the end result would be just more state deficit spending that we don't need. So don't ever believe Dayton's promise that someone else will pay for his spending promises and you will be relieved of some of your obligations. ::)
Well, it has begun. About 10 PM at the governor's office there was what was described as a "surreal" scene as Governor Dayton held a press conference and the leaders of the legislature started hissing and booing because they did not like what he was saying. They offered the governor a "lights on" bill but he refused.
And there was also late news that the large loggers in northern MN filed suit in a district court to block the ban on logging as they have already payed for their contracts to log and this shutdown amounts to a breech of those contracts. Some of those loggers say they may lose their business. And it was reported the state will lose some $900,000 per week in stumpage payments.
Moral of the story, never let a guy that has never had to struggle for his own survival control your income or spend your money. :(
That's interesting news. Here in NB, if a license holder goes broke, the volume of wood allocated on that license still gets cut. Everything is cut by harvest contractors to begin with. DNR takes on the license's role of administering contracts and management. Even if a license closes it's mill down, the allocation is harvested even if it's all export wood or sold to another mill. But the Minister of Nat Resources has the final say in the way things proceed. We had a parcel of land on one license that got amalgamated to another mill license. A company had built a bunch of forest roads as they are a sublicense that harvests in that license area. The company lost to rights to harvest the wood because of the change in the license area. DNR had to come good for all the road building costs. What should have happened, and maybe it eventually did, was that the forest company that acquired the new parcel in their license should have paid the bill.
Try to have a good birthday today anyway, Gary!
Gary, just curious, what does DFL stand for? (I just read the StarTribune article, linked by the Drudge Report.)
And Happy Birthday. :)
DFL is an old Minnesota designation for the Democratic Party. Democrat-Farmer-Labor is what I think it stands for. On the other side is the IR party which is Independent Republicans. I have no idea of why. ;D
Thanks for the birthday wishes. You are only as old as you feel so I must be 39 still. Or on some days 79. :D
the Socialist party. ! thats what they really stand for.
Happy Birthday Gary!
I know your a farmer so does that make you a democrat. :D
when a gov. shutdown costs millions per day why do they do it? the bright side you didn't have to work on your birthday :D
its called " LEVERAGE" so each party hollars at their reps. to vent there feelings or views of the way it should be or should not be done to get what all parties use to their benefit!!!! in other words to associate it with could be compromise??
Perhaps some good news for loggers. I just heard on the late news that a district court judge has granted a temporary injunction baring the DNR from shutting down MN logging operations. There will be a hearing on a permanent injunction on July 11.
As far as the rest of the shutdown, it's become an ugly finger pointing show. Apparently Gov Dayton at the last minute dumped his demand for a tax on the rich but still refused to agree on a budget. I guess now he is just claiming to be protecting the vulnerable people that are dependent on state government. And apparently to back that claim up, the news told about a 39 year old unmarried mother of eight kids that is going to lose her $3600 a month payment from the state during this shutdown. ::)
Quote from: Gary_C on July 02, 2011, 12:17:14 AM
Perhaps some good news for loggers. I just heard on the late news that a district court judge has granted a temporary injunction baring the DNR from shutting down MN logging operations. There will be a hearing on a permanent injunction on July 11.
As far as the rest of the shutdown, it's become an ugly finger pointing show. Apparently Gov Dayton at the last minute dumped his demand for a tax on the rich but still refused to agree on a budget. I guess now he is just claiming to be protecting the vulnerable people that are dependent on state government. And apparently to back that claim up, the news told about a 39 year old unmarried mother of eight kids that is going to lose her $3600 a month payment from the state during this shutdown. ::)
Never heard of Birth Control?
Your state has lots of money if the welfare cheques are anything like that. They wouldn't get half that here with all the kids she's got.
I think your governor is a corn ball for even mentioning it. Sounds like he needs to be ousted from his seat more than anything.
Our state has been giving money to baby factorys for years, not just this governor, then we give it to the sperm donators too, since most have a health issue, so they cant work,ie: bad back, bi polar, depression, list goes on and on, and as long as we keep given, the state budget will never stop growing, everyone wants to cut taxes, but no one wants there programs cut, weather its state or federal its all the same.
Here is the best reporting on the request for an injunction. Apparently since the holiday weekend has started, there is no reporting on the judge issuing a temporary restraining order with a hearing for a permanent one on July 11.
Loggers asking judge to allow them to harvest during shutdown
(http://www.twincities.com/ci_18384103?IADID=Search-www.twincities.com-www.twincities.com)
That is good news. They need to be stood up to.
Ditto!
Vote them all out,BOTH parties.Hope Tues.is better logging.I'm sick of gov reg's and the rain.Longest mud season ever.
I find this whole mess amazing. It was not that long ago that Minnesota was worrying about what to do with the surplus.
On the side of this article are some house photos and prices. They are hard to believe.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/124920504.html
I also find it impressive that two of the people from Minnesota that were involved in creating the mess now step forward and want to be president. Wow.
I thought the mess in Mn was caused by the present gov not signing a budget bill.
How is that in any way, shape , or form caused by Bachman or Pawlenty?
I think the problem was of several adminstations in the making. $5 billion down would be hard to do in a couple of years.
Well the shutdown continues on day 7 and there is no solution in sight. In fact Gov. Dayton has come back with another tax he wants to add. The legislators have said we are going backwards.
The DNR is in hiding and ignoring the district judges injunction against the ban on logging operations leaving the conservation officers with orders to enforce the ban. To make matters worse, a storm went thru my job on the first day of the shutdown and devastated the area.
I have a lot of wood cut and buried under all the down trees.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11467/Blowdown-pinecity1.jpg)
Here is the main trail that runs thru the entire sale. It is blocked from one end to the other.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11467/Blowdown-pinecity2.jpg)
I am sure the job will become a salvage job, but I cannot do anything till the DNR comes back to work and appraises the damage. So in the meantime, I will haul what wood I already have at the landing and then move out. and if I move out, it will be some months before I can come back. So all that wood on the ground will start to rot and the bugs will have more to eat.
A number of people have said Governor Dayton is not alright mentally and I believe they are right. My wife has said that he has a funny look in his eyes. When he was our US Senator, he closed his DC office and went into hiding one day when they raised the terror alert and the press labeled him the worst senator ever. Dayton is making Jesse Ventura look like a good governor.
A sad situation for Minnesota with no end in sight.
Sure hope you guys over there can find someone who knows a little about governing then the current bunch. Maybe they're all waiting until Obama bankrupts the country.
A sad state of affairs.
whats the saying.... can't fix stupid :(
QuoteSure hope you guys over there can find someone who knows a little about governing then the current bunch. Maybe they're all waiting until Obama bankrupts the country
it wont be long swampdonkey... This IS his "change"
For those of you Minnesota boys that drink Miller or Coors. You had better stock up:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/13/news/economy/Minnesota_shutdown_beer/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=hp_bn3
Bruce
The land of 10,000 lakes. No beer and now no fishing. Sounds like something from a third world country. This is from the Mpls paper today. ::)
Anglers fishing Minnesota waters without a fishing license are violating the law and face possible citations, state officials said Wednesday.
It doesn't matter that resident and nonresident anglers can't buy licenses because of the state government shutdown.
"It's black and white -- you must have a license to fish," said Tom Landwehr, Department of Natural Resources commissioner.
Some resort owners -- desperate to retain customers -- have been collecting license money from their nonresident guests and giving them receipts to carry in lieu of a fishing license, saying they will buy licenses for them after the shutdown ends.
That's no good, Landwehr said. "You can't have an IOU or say 'I intended to get a license,'" he said. "You must have a fishing license in your possession while you are fishing."
Violators risk a fine and court costs of about $150.
The DNR explained its position Wednesday after seeing the reports of resort owners issuing temporary fishing licenses, and after the Crow Wing County Board passed a resolution Tuesday seeking clarification.
Commissioners in that north- central Minnesota county expressed concern that resorts would suffer financially if customers can't buy fishing licenses. County Board Chairman Paul Thiede wanted the DNR to temporarily allow nonresidents to fish the Brainerd Lakes area without a license, if they agreed to buy one after the shutdown ended.
But Landwehr said not enforcing the law isn't an option.
"The bottom line is state law says you must have a license," he said.
The state's conservation officers still have discretion whether to issue citations or warnings, said Jim Konrad, DNR enforcement chief. But Konrad said Wednesday that the shutdown is no excuse to fish without a license.
"We certainly are writing some citations for fishing without licenses," he said. "And we're telling people they can't fish if they don't have one."
The state's 180 conservation officers have been pressed to do other tasks during the shutdown, and they are spending far less time enforcing game and fish laws. But they still are enforcing those laws, Konrad said.
Landwehr agreed his officers have discretion but said in this case the issue seems clear-cut.
"I expect when an officer finds a flagrant violation that they will issue a citation," he said. "This is a very simple thing: If you fish without a license, you're blatantly violating the law."
Meanwhile, fishing guide Tom Neustrom of Grand Rapids, a retired deputy sheriff, said the inability of anglers to buy licenses is hurting guides, resorts and other businesses. He's been guiding unlicensed clients and will continue to do so.
"We're telling them to come," he said. "This is our livelihood. What are we supposed to do?"
He tells his clients to bring enough cash to pay for a license and plans to explain that to conservation officers. He hasn't encountered any officers yet.
"It's a bad mess," Neustrom said.
What's wrong with this picture? If the state doesn't have money to collect and issue fishing licenses how can they have the money to enforce said laws? Wouldn't you continue to collect money for the licenses so sales tax (assuming Minnesota has sales tax) on all the tourism, plus the income from the licenses, before you spent your money on enforcing it?
There is only one thing that left undone in this whole situation and there is a $1 solution that I am surprised nobody hasn't done already. We get rid of pests using it for doing far less than this Dayton creature has done. ;)
The effects of this situation are being felt up here in Canada. Friends of mine were on vacation in Minnesota just recently and they came back to say that the state seems as if it is one whole ghost town. They were so mad that they couldn't get their fix of fishing while there. ::)
Quote from: Kansas on July 14, 2011, 09:34:59 AM
What's wrong with this picture?
There is so much wrong with this whole shutdown picture that I cannot say much more or this topic will have to be sent to the woodshed.
We have familys stopping along the side of the busy interstate highways to let their kids go in the grass, we have countless businesses shutdown like loggers that pay the state some $900,000 per week in stumpage payments and a major beer distributor that is being told to remove his beer from the stores in two days, and two state forests and a state park that were devastated on the eve of the first day of the shutdown with essentially no cleanup allowed. And the DNR foresters that were called back to do limited road clearings were threatened with firing if they did any of their normal work or even went into their office. And so many other stories that I can't even begin to remember them all.
There's no longer any "Minnesota Nice" in this state.
And as someone told me this morning, many people in the state are hoping that soon some mental institution will tell us they have taken Governor Mark Dayton back to the institution where he belongs. The rest of the people don't seem to have figgured things out or still don't care.
And just yesterday in Gov. Dayton's trip around the state, some public offical was imploring the Gov. to save their Jobz Program because the money was providing many jobs and they would not be able to compete with other cities in Iowa for new businesses. If I had been there, I would have asked the guy just where he thought the money should come from to pay for his local job program. ???
Tomorrow starts the third week of this madness and there is no end in sight. :( :( :(
There is hope...
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/politics/mn-shutdown-dayton-agrees-republican-budget-july-14-2011
Doug, you beat me to it. I just read this story and now it will end. Here is a quote from our governor if you can understand it.
"I believe this is the best option for Minnesota," a weary-sounding Dayton said after his announcement in a speech at the University of Minnesota. "I know in my soul that I am doing what I believe."
??? ???
Oh well, it's over! 8)
That guy is a serious fruitcake.
?? WHERE'S JESSE ?? i love a good fight! minnesota gov. against wisconsin gov...... who do you pick??? !! MINNESOTA, GOTTA LOVE HER FOR ALL HER GLORY !!