Feller buncher, How strong?

shelby78 · October 30, 2021, 08:06:31 PM

Long story short I own a tree service and have a 250 tree dead ash job to price for the city. I do a lot of the city's work. I normally shut down in the winter as I have no interest in residential tree work when it's cold. But......

This job need to be done in the winter. Basically a fence line behind residential. There is also a drainage ditch and possible heavy snow making getting my bucket truck in impossible...

Would it even be practical to buy a feller buncher to work within 150ft of houses. Trees will be up to say 24 inch diameter and 50-70ft tall. how strong is one of these units?

I would have no issue dropping 100k on something if it could work.. things like how much control would you have on a larger tree with a 15 degree or so lean?

Behind the row I would cut is a big open field. This is a 2.5 km stretch of trees...

Southside · October 30, 2021, 08:44:31 PM

The only way to do this job is in a buncher, and yes a machine set up for that size timber will be just fine. You will actually have more issues with the tops breaking out 20' or higher on you than the machine not being able to handle the tree. I will not fell EAB killed ash without my fellerbuncer.

BargeMonkey · October 30, 2021, 09:38:53 PM

I try not to make a habit of it but I've done it alot with my buncher. Depends what size machine and what head your looking at.

Woodfarmer · October 30, 2021, 09:41:31 PM

Are they too far gone to be hand felled?

mike_belben · October 30, 2021, 09:53:59 PM

ive seen pretty impressive urban/city tree removal vids done by rubber tired excavators ("drotts") with hydraulic shearing grapples where big bushy city trees had to by dismantled limb by limb due to being hemmed in by powerlines, traffic lights and so forth. the treeline type of trees with limbs that go across 3 lanes. it was very controlled.

a buncher severs and grabs a whole tree and then you find out if it can handle the tree or not. an excavator shear can dismantle in quantities it can definitely manage, whittling a big one down into a single stem in segments while remaining stationary, and have a lot more dexterity. youll have to look at the quality of the trees and conditions of the site to decide what you really need.

shelby78 · October 31, 2021, 07:08:27 AM

I am going to walk the site today and have recently done ash trees in a few yards on the same stretch this year. I know the job but haven't walked it to really think about doing it..

The trees are not too far gone to hand fell. We only really got hit with eab on a large scale this spring. This year I have done a lot of ash tree and 99 percent are still very strong. I'm talking roping 40ft tops over houses strong and shockloading the stem.. our little town doesn't mess around when it comes to trees..

One issue is setting ropes in 250 tree tress if you were going to pull them. I don't want climb trees in the winter and barely wanna climb them now lol. Then if it's a lot of snow where do I find traction to pull? Some trees will also lean more than practical to pull into the field or even sideway.

There are lots of different machines I am contemplating like cranes with a grapple saw but I also don't want to take 250 trees apart in pieces. I do that all summer.

I'll throw some pics up later so everyone can see better.

Riwaka · October 31, 2021, 07:19:24 AM

The Sennebogen 718E unit is being used to take down the insect damaged urban/ roadside trees.
The 718E is over us$500K new. There are 728e also doing tree work.
There is a range of chain saw grapple heads to use.
Rob Frost - Sennebogen
Sennebogen 718 Customer Review - Rob Frost - YouTube

There are videos of people using hot disc heads on rubber tire and track feller bunchers in urban environments. (Even though there are 'Keep Clear 300 feet' stickers on them) A loose saw tooth from a hot saw can go half a mile/ 2500 ft plus etc.
The saw chain heads if there is a 'chain shot' situation is like a 9mm bullet so the cab windows on feller bunchers/ feller harvesters have to be 'rated' to prevent penetration.

Probably go and see the Wajax (tigercat) and Caterpillar. There are bar saw fixed felling heads(quadco/ rosin etc) lighter than the TC5185. An old (but renovated) 822 FB with a bar saw head could probably still tip down those trees. (Cost would be closer to your budget) An 855/870 (870 is 2x the lift of a 822) etc to lift and place.
Skidder (with tire chains) with winch to pull trees.

X-ray your machine saw chains for using in an urban environment? Replace regularly.

Hot saw feller buncher is usually cut and grab together (Quadco has the intermittent disc saw - grab then cut) and a barsaw head is grab then cut.

mike_belben · October 31, 2021, 09:25:01 AM

I think you need to be asking yourself which direction are you headed in after this. A feller buncher is a one trick pony. Residential tree customer wants a culvert or retaining wall or septic or foundation dug, thats an excavator job. Unless youre headed toward logging a fellerbuncher wont get a ton more use after this where adigger can be a whole other division to your services. If its a rubber tire excavator with a grapple shear you could probably get pruning contracts with the same city and take her right down the road, no trailering.

Maybe see what else the city has for work before you decide. Ryans makes custom barsaw/grapple attachments but a mechanical shear doesnt take any extra plumbing. A roto tilt would really improve dexterity however.

ehp · October 31, 2021, 11:19:47 AM

do you have to reach across the ditch to get to the trees or can you drive the machine on the same side as the trees , rent or hire a machine makes the most sense to me as 250 trees will not take very long to do

barbender · October 31, 2021, 12:41:48 PM

Strictly speaking to what would work best, I think a fixed head bar saw, track based machine would work best in this situation, like what @BargeMonkey has. That job doesn't sound big enough to even have a hotsaw head figured out before you had it done. I would just try to hire a machine and operator to come in and lay it down, if any are available in your area.

Riwaka · October 31, 2021, 04:06:59 PM

Since the trees are probably not very deteriorated.
Excavator (with cab protection) with a rotobec rpa grapple.
Use excavator assisted felling with a chainsaw. Find excavator operator with the right formal qualifications.

Rotobec RPA Power Attachment and Grapple Saw in Action for Land Clearing - YouTube

Maine logger88 · October 31, 2021, 04:34:56 PM

Barbender I agree maybe I'm a slow learner but it took me a lot more than 250 trees to get the hang of a hotsaw. It took me a week to get remotely proficient with it and a lot longer than that to get pretty decent at it. I'd hire someone with a hotsaw to come in for a day and throw them all on the ground for you

BargeMonkey · October 31, 2021, 10:52:17 PM

Hotsaw you wanna be pretty quick and your COMMITTED 😆🤦‍♂️ a dangle head like a Ryan's / Bell's isn't the type of control your looking for. I have had great luck with my barsaw head and done alot of hazardous work, made 6 digits on that job in 14 days doing it all alone so I wasn't paying prevailing wage😆.

It's all fun and games till your in the cab screaming NO NO NO like a little girl as one gets away from you and wipe the power out 😆🤦‍♂️ and join the
Big blue flash club in the process

barbender · October 31, 2021, 11:52:15 PM

That machine has sure put a lot of wood on the ground for you👍🏻👍🏻

Brooks1984 · November 01, 2021, 05:34:17 AM

I would not recommend buying a buncher and try to learn how to run it on a job like that. If you are looking to rent a machine with operator my old boss rents his out and is from Brockville Ontario.

nativewolf · November 01, 2021, 06:53:58 AM

Quote from: Brooks1984 on November 01, 2021, 05:34:17 AM
I would not recommend buying a buncher and try to learn how to run it on a job like that. If you are looking to rent a machine with operator my old boss rents his out and is from Brockville Ontario.

Winner winner chicken dinner. What a great forum.

shelby78 · November 02, 2021, 06:13:29 AM

Thanks for all the info. I was originally contemplating a hot saw but realize now a bar saw would be way better in the long run. Basically I have always wanted a buncher and this was a way to get one for free so to speak. I have no need for one but just want one.

I took the quad out to look at the job on the weekend and a lot of it isn't as bad as I thought. The bad sections are worse than I thought lol... some trees are behind phone/data lines that are climbers only..

I don't even think I'm going to bid this job.. I normally never work the winter unless a trees on a house, car or kid. Chipping brush/climbing in the snow/cold is no fun either..

I was going to bid this stupid high to get more toys but the cons outweigh the pro's. After 22 years of residential tree work I value being warm and dry more than extra money.. luckily I can make Enough in 8 months to coast thru winter so I don't have to bid it. It's nice to have the option to bid though.