Mud

[Rhodemont]

We had some temps in the 20's last week so the ground started to freeze.  So, I cleaned up around the saw mill, got the chainsaws all ready to go, took the back hoe off the tractor and put the log winch on.  Of course we are now getting flooding rain and everything has thawed back to mud.  It could take a while to dry and/or freeze up enough to do some logging.  

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Rhodemont I feel your pain for certain.    I had to park the skidder when that job went to mud and its been raining every second or third day for weeks here.
  So I loaded up the tractor and arch and started another little job with better higher ground and was able to work that for  a few days but now thats going to mud so I parked the tractor. 
  So I went to the firewood lot and I've been splitting and stacking and making deliveries but now this morning I started making ruts out there and the truck is spinning tire even in 4wd so I'm done out there til the temps drop enough to stiffen the ground up.    It doesn't have to get that cold to hold up the truck and dump trailer or the tractors but its gotta get pretty cool for a few days before I'll be able to roll the skidder again.    Dec. march and April are the hardest months to make an honest buck around here.

[Southside]

From late April through mid November we had almost nothing for rain, 1/2" here and there, weeks between events. Now it's constant rain, and the ground was so dry it won't absorb it so it sat on top, instant mud, now it's saturated. 

Not sure I am in the right game. 

[DDW_OR]

gravel
1 1/2 inch

[Rhodemont]

I get a load of 3/4 inch gravel each year to patch up the ways to the barns and paddocks.  But a triaxle load delivered at currently $600(about 22 ton) does not get you far.

[Kodiakmac]

Holy mackerel!  $600 USD per load!  And I thought we were getting hosed up here in Canuckistan where it's running at $350 to $370 CAD for 20 tonnes plus or minus a bit.

Nice to know our rocks are a bargain! :D

[Rhodemont]

Bank run gravel is quite a bit less expensive than the process gravel.  The process gravel is much better footing for the horses, the process has a lot of bigger stones.  The bank run would be good for logging trails but most of my trails are mixed use.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

The rocks that we pick up from the gardens and fields are used to fill holes and low spots on my farm lanes and the wood yard and I buy cheap crushed sand stone every year but in the end the mud always returns especially when its this wet for weeks.
  I was relieved it was going to be cold enough to freeze the ground solid Sunday because I have two deliveries to make but now its snowing hard so I don't know.   I take it day to day and try not to let it get me down.    But its tough. 

[DDW_OR]

when they build roads, big rock for the base, then smaller on top

[stavebuyer]

The Geotextile road underlayment does wonders. I just bought a roll this morning. 12'6" Wx350'L was $467.50 at the local feed store. Put that down and some crushed limestone on top your mud days will be done.

[Ianab]

Nice to know our rocks are a bargain!

Usually related to how far they have to be hauled. Sometimes local farmers get lucky and there is old river gravel on their property. Dig it out and you are only out a couple of days machinery hire. Other places, there isn't a rock in sight. My last was all fine volcanic ash over some slippery mudstone. Rocks and gravel had to be hauled ~15 miles from a quarry nearer the Mt. I don't think there was a single rock on the whole 300 acres that hadn't been hauled in. 

Go around the other side of the Mt and the more recent lahars have left random rocks everywhere. They curse them in the same way we cursed the lack of rocks. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

when they build roads, big rock for the base, then smaller on top

They do. And that works for a while.  I live in a township with 39 miles of road of which 4 miles are paved the rest are gravel if your lucky and some are no winter maintenance dirt roads. The township does like I do. And thats the best they can with limited budget and man power.   When I'm repairing and rebuilding lanes in the wood lot and around the farm its fill in the holes with whatever I got and keep throwing whatever I can get real cheap on top of that.   Oh, and hope for dry cold weather. :D

[AndrewM]

In the north woods- they freeze down roads by plowing the insulating snow off them, let them sit for a couple days or so for the overnight lows to help the frost penetrate.

In the south, a lot of the poor quality hardwoods that don't have a market get felled and laid down as the base for the skid road (swamp logging). They are laid tree-length in the orientation of the road.

To build a permanent road in the swamp up north- the story goes of one township in the 1940's that cut and laid logs across the roadway- wider than the road to spread the weight- then overtopped with road base material.

In the railroad logging era- lots more hijinks ensured with trestles, log ties, etc. for the huge weight of the engines and cars. Not always successfully especially with spring break up (literally- break up of the rail lines with some sinking, others rising with waters flooding in).

[barbender]

There's a ton of roads up north with corduroy underneath them for a base. It is not a good long term solution other than for woods roads however. When the freeze thaw expansion takes place in the spring that stuff gets pretty lively and tends to frost jack up through the gravel. It will absolutely destroy asphalt.

[Resonator]

I saw on a construction job (and watched on you tube) guys do "soil stabilization". That's where they basically roto-till the poor soil, and then till in cement (or quick lime) powder in. They then spray water on and compact it with a sheeps foot roller, within hours what was mud can support tons of weight. I've thought about trying it (on a small scale) on some of the muddy spots on the trails in my woods.

[Patrick NC]

I get a load of 3/4 inch gravel each year to patch up the ways to the barns and paddocks.  But a triaxle load delivered at currently $600(about 22 ton) does not get you far.

Around here asphalt millings are a lot cheaper.  Usually about $250 for a quad axle load. 

[Patrick NC]

If you get some spread out smooth in the spring and spray it with a little diesel from a backpack sprayer the asphalt will melt together and give you an almost impervious base. Has to be above freezing though. 

[Rhodemont]

I had thought about used asphalt but never looked into it.  Just now pulled up several suppliers not too far away.  I am going to stop by one in the future before buying gravel.

[Walnut Beast]

I would use the asphalt as a base and rock on top. 

[beenthere]

Used motor oil on recycled asphalt works great too. 

[chet]

There's a ton of roads up north with corduroy underneath them for a base. It is not a good long term solution other than for woods roads however. When the freeze thaw expansion takes place in the spring that stuff gets pretty lively and tends to frost jack up through the gravel. It will absolutely destroy asphalt.

The county road that my brother UP here lives on has a corduroy base, and da wood always pokes up in da spring and makes a total mess of the blacktop. This last summer the county road comission finally got a permit from the DEQ ta finally put a 1 foot lift on the road and reblacktop it. They were not permitted to remove the corduroy.  :  So the road was good for at least one summer.  :D

[Andries]

That's Einstein's definition of being crackers: doing something over and over again, hoping for a different outcome each time. 🫣

[barbender]

 Buried timber in hard frost country is bad news for permanent roads. When I worked on a paving crew, we prepped and paved a lake home driveway. We got a call back the next summer for some repairs. I absolutely could not believe it when I got there. There were 2'-3' holes in the asphalt, where water was running through. And it was hollow underneath😬 

 Now, I personally did the prep work on that job and there wasn't a soft spot or any flexing in the base. Apparently what happened was the site contractor years previously had buried the trees in the driveway when they cleared the lot. That was a pretty popular technique with a lot of the local excavators, if I would've ever caught one in the act I would've slapped them. But by the time the discovery was made of what had been done, it was usually 5-10-15 years down the line and most of the time those clowns weren't even in business anymore. 

 It was always a sad day when a paved driveway busted up from long since buried wood, because it was a case where I had to tell the customer, "there's nothing I can do for it, and you're on your own". Our warranty was good for our work, but if the customer was unwittingly on a landfill that was outside of what we covered.

 On the flip side, we had a big box culvert on the State highway by our place, that the State decided needing updating when they redid the road. It was really old and sometimes these things fail seemingly out of nowhere, with thr loads they're bearing being so much glacier and more frequent than 50-80 years ago. The State was trying to be proactive, and I don't blame them for that.

 When they dug up the concrete box culvert, they found wood pilings underneath it and the decision was made to remove them. Well that turned into a can of worms! They found that they disturbed some really unstable soil, and they had a heck of a time getting pilings drove down far enough to restabilize it. It delayed the project by a couple of months. Unfortunately for us, we were the first place past the culvert, so our 8 mile distance to town became about 20😡

[chet]

The first tree job '1972'  I ever did was cutting a new road and utility R/W around part of a lake for a new high end subdivision. I was to leave everything as it hit the ground. When they built the road, they burried everthing I had cut along with all the stumps in the roadbed just as you said. As it turned out , I now live just around the corner from that road and travel it everyday.  :D  Even after all these years there is only one spot that is now sinking. When the rest lets go it won't be pretty.   :

[Resonator]

A state highway near me has load limits put on every spring. One of the old timer guys told me that they built it the same way, laying trees down in the swamp about 100 years ago. If they ever rebuilt it, it would cost in the millions. I've worked on road jobs in different states where they dig out the road, and then down FEET under the road, and bring in cubic tons of sand, pit run, gravel, or breaker rock, fill it in, compact it, and build it up. Then the state engineer inspector comes in and takes his tests. And if a section don't pass, guess what? Dig it up again. :D