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HM126 band blade set and maybe switch to circle mill

Started by mitchstockdale, July 24, 2019, 12:52:42 PM

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mitchstockdale

I have been struggling horribly with wavy cuts on my HM126... I have spent tons of time diligently going through the set up trying to weed out the problem to no avail.   It has the 9.5hp kohler engine and runs 144" blades.  I have varied the blade tension, checked the bandwheel bearings, levelled the bed, ensured the guide blokcs are properly set.  Still got a case of the wavies.  

I just got off the phone with the fella who sharpens my blades and he told me he usually sets them for 28 to 30thou and by time he grinds them they end up being around 25 to 28 thou.  I then told him I am running a 9.5hp engine and he said "oh..maybe they should be set less... maybe around 22 thou" (my fault i never communicated my set up to him)  .  Not sure if this could be an issue but wanted to ask for some opinions on the matter since I have seen quite a few post on blade set but couldn't seem to find anything that fit my specific parameters. 

Also been thinking of trading up amidst this frustration and found a Mobile Dimension Saw portable mill for sale locally and have been thinking this might be a better choice for me to get out of the manual bandmill game and do more sawing than tinkering.

thoughts and comments?

thanks Mitch

nativewolf

Wish I could find a nice one down here.  I'd love to have a mighty mite or mobile dimension to saw fencing.  If you are doing dimensional lumber it seems like a great way to quickly put out some wood, provided you have some equipment.
Liking Walnut

Crusarius

What material are you cutting? I can cut hardwoods smooth as silk but I am always fighting to get good cuts on softwood. The blade wanders terribly. I have 22hp and 158" blade.

RAYAR

Hi Mitch, another NB'er here.

Are you possibly getting pitch build up on your blade, especially on one side? If pitch build up accumulates higher than the set of the teeth, then that will cause deflection and waviness and also require more power to pull your blade through the cut. Running a thinner kerf will take a little less power but it will also take less build up on the blade to deflect it, especially with build up more on one side.

Ray
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

mitchstockdale

Quote from: Crusarius on July 24, 2019, 01:27:25 PM
What material are you cutting? I can cut hardwoods smooth as silk but I am always fighting to get good cuts on softwood. The blade wanders terribly. I have 22hp and 158" blade.
Crusarius,

I am cutting fairly big white an red spruce, fairly clear logs, some logs have knots...i do notice i am guaranteed to get a wave right after a knot. I have been peeling bark off down to the wood on the "blade in" side of the log.

Quote from: RAYAR on July 24, 2019, 01:29:33 PM
Hi Mitch, another NB'er here.

Are you possibly getting pitch build up on your blade, especially on one side? If pitch build up accumulates higher than the set of the teeth, then that will cause deflection and waviness and also require more power to pull your blade through the cut. Running a thinner kerf will take a little less power but it will also take less build up on the blade to deflect it, especially with build up more on one side.

Ray
Hey Ray,  not much for pitch build up i keep my eye on things and always run a good amount of water..i think the blade options for my mill are fairly limited




Crusarius

Same boat I am in. I put a sharp blade on the mill and it made a world of difference. I definitely had pitch buildup on my last blade. So the new one cut so much nicer. I need to get a lube tank.

mitchstockdale

Quote from: Crusarius on July 24, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
Same boat I am in. I put a sharp blade on the mill and it made a world of difference. I definitely had pitch buildup on my last blade. So the new one cut so much nicer. I need to get a lube tank.
last time i cut i needed some stagging planks and cut about 7  2x12 out of one log the blade was starting to get dull before i started but i wanted to push it to see what would happen and the waves arent horrible but still in my mind there shouldnt be any deviation it should be straight 

btulloh

The 9.5 hp closes off a few options but we have quite a few in spite of that.

What make and degree bands are you running?

I started with a box of 10 degr lennox I ordered with the mill. Switched to 7 degr kasco and got much better results on almost everything. I won't even use the 10's anymore unless it's an extreme emergency. People have great results with Timberwolf but I haven't tried them.

As long as I do everything right I get really straight cuts. My biggest mistake is pushing a blade too long. I don't get the bd ft I'd like before the blade needs changing but that's just the way it is. If I keep a sharp blade on and keep the pitch off the blade and wheels I make straight cuts.
HM126

Crusarius

If I had my own sharpener I would definitely change my earlier than I do.

Southside

Even before I got to your statement I figured you had to be sawing spruce given your description and location.  You really can't push a dull band and expect good results, especially when sawing spruce.  It might help to go to a 7° or maybe even a 4° band.  Even with our high HP mills a dull band will cause issues.  I have not tried it yet but Kasco has a 4/40 band, it is a wildcat as it starts as a 7/40 and is ground down to a 4/40 and works very well in our yellow pine, the 4° makes it even easier to pull, so although it may be non-traditional to think of using a 4° for a softwood it might help with your Spruce issue.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

mitchstockdale

Quote from: btulloh on July 24, 2019, 02:20:32 PM
The 9.5 hp closes off a few options but we have quite a few in spite of that.

What make and degree bands are you running?

I started with a box of 10 degr lennox I ordered with the mill. Switched to 7 degr kasco and got much better results on almost everything. I won't even use the 10's anymore unless it's an extreme emergency. People have great results with Timberwolf but I haven't tried them.

As long as I do everything right I get really straight cuts. My biggest mistake is pushing a blade too long. I don't get the bd ft I'd like before the blade needs changing but that's just the way it is. If I keep a sharp blade on and keep the pitch off the blade and wheels I make straight cuts.
Yeah i am running the lennox 144" 10deg  that i ordered with my mill.  I will see if i can find some of those Kasco 7 deg blades here in Canada.

mitchstockdale

Quote from: Southside on July 24, 2019, 02:43:12 PM
Even before I got to your statement I figured you had to be sawing spruce given your description and location.  You really can't push a dull band and expect good results, especially when sawing spruce.  It might help to go to a 7° or maybe even a 4° band.  Even with our high HP mills a dull band will cause issues.  I have not tried it yet but Kasco has a 4/40 band, it is a wildcat as it starts as a 7/40 and is ground down to a 4/40 and works very well in our yellow pine, the 4° makes it even easier to pull, so although it may be non-traditional to think of using a 4° for a softwood it might help with your Spruce issue.  
Thanks for the input, if i gleaned anything from your post it sounds almost as if what i am dealing with is just the nature of the beast with cutting spruce and my current set up.

btulloh

So true about the nature of the species being sawed. That's just one of the many things I learned along the way and still learning. Some of it I learned the hard way and some I learned from the people here.

I learned I don't like hickory. More than once. I don't even care to make firewood with it. Plenty of people here make beautiful stuff out of hickory though. They are welcome to all my hickory logs.
HM126

RAYAR

I also started out with Lennox 10 degree blades. I'm currently awaiting on delivery of Kasco Woodmaxx 7 degree blades. Mine are a custom length and are being made up in Mexico, then delivered to the head office/depot in St. Louis, then forwarded to the Montreal office/depot and sent on to me from there.

I'm also soon to be upgrading my engine from a 13HP manual to a 15HP electric start. I currently have the new engine.
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

ladylake


 Forget the 7° go right to 4°, I get the best results in ugly knotty spruce using a 4°  3/4 pitch with a shallow gullet (more blade body)  with a heavy set.  I wont even try to saw spruce with a 10° blade.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

RAYAR

A blade that has dulled more on one edge than the other due to possibly contacting more abrasive on that edge will tend to veer away from that duller edge. The harder you push a dull blade, the more it will deflect.
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

mitchstockdale

Quote from: RAYAR on July 24, 2019, 03:41:14 PM
I also started out with Lennox 10 degree blades. I'm currently awaiting on delivery of Kasco Woodmaxx 7 degree blades. Mine are a custom length and are being made up in Mexico, then delivered to the head office/depot in St. Louis, then forwarded to the Montreal office/depot and sent on to me from there.

I'm also soon to be upgrading my engine from a 13HP manual to a 15HP electric start. I currently have the new engine.
How did you order those Kasco's and what was the price tag like...being Canadian Im sure you can share in my frustration of how difficult and expensive it is to get something from the US

mitchstockdale

Quote from: ladylake on July 24, 2019, 03:41:51 PM

Forget the 7° go right to 4°, I get the best results in ugly knotty spruce using a 4°  3/4 pitch with a shallow gullet (more blade body)  with a heavy set.  I wont even try to saw spruce with a 10° blade.   Steve
Who makes a 4 deg?..Just a quick look through the Kasco Site and blades that meet the spec for my mill are only available in 10deg

btulloh

Kasco makes them for your mill. They're not listed on the website but they are a standard item.
HM126

btulloh

HM126

John Bartley

I started with 10' blades and quickly resharpened them at 7'.   For anything spruce or pine etc, I set at 28 to 30 thousandth's.  With a sharp blade your 9hp should be fine with an extra 7 thousandth's of set each side.

My experience in knotty pine / spruce::

sharp and set low (21-22) = cuts fast with waves
sharp and set high (28-30) = cuts fast and straight
dull and set low (21-22) = cuts slow with waves
dull and set high (28-30) = cuts slow and straight.

NOTE 1 :: the sharper the tooth, the bigger the chips and less pitch/sawdust buildup.
NOTE 2 :: I always runs more lube when in pitchy wood - it's cheap and it works to keep the bands clean
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

ladylake


 Yes Kasco makes 4° blades , If you can try and get them with a heavy set.  I buy mine at 10° but sharpen them to 4° and set them heavy for spruce.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

RAYAR

Quote from: mitchstockdale on July 24, 2019, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: RAYAR on July 24, 2019, 03:41:14 PM
I also started out with Lennox 10 degree blades. I'm currently awaiting on delivery of Kasco Woodmaxx 7 degree blades. Mine are a custom length and are being made up in Mexico, then delivered to the head office/depot in St. Louis, then forwarded to the Montreal office/depot and sent on to me from there.
How did you order those Kasco's and what was the price tag like...being Canadian Im sure you can share in my frustration of how difficult and expensive it is to get something from the US

The Kasco's I ordered through the Montreal office. Approximately $28 each delivered. Minimum order is 15.

The Lennox ones I ordered last summer were from the NW part of the province, I think maybe St. Leonard. Price was comparable. The fella has a saw sharpening business on the side of his regular job.
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

RAYAR

What part or area of the province are you in Mitch?
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

mitchstockdale

Quote from: John Bartley on July 24, 2019, 04:10:35 PM
I started with 10' blades and quickly resharpened them at 7'.   For anything spruce or pine etc, I set at 28 to 30 thousandth's.  With a sharp blade your 9hp should be fine with an extra 7 thousandth's of set each side.

My experience in knotty pine / spruce::

sharp and set low (21-22) = cuts fast with waves
sharp and set high (28-30) = cuts fast and straight
dull and set low (21-22) = cuts slow with waves
dull and set high (28-30) = cuts slow and straight.

NOTE 1 :: the sharper the tooth, the bigger the chips and less pitch/sawdust buildup.
NOTE 2 :: I always runs more lube when in pitchy wood - it's cheap and it works to keep the bands clean
good info thanks a lot

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