1959 Cat #12 road grader questions

[justallan1]

Howdy, long time no posts.
I'm not sure if this is even in the right spot, but here goes.
I'm looking at buying a 1959 Caterpillar #12 road grader, but just can't find any specs on anything that age. The thing runs great, the clutch works fine, it's been converted from a pony motor to an electric start and starts at 30-35 degrees outside just fine. I don't know how long it had been sitting, but using a bit of ether it probably cranked for 5-10 seconds before firing. I did look for blow-by and at an idle it didn't do a thing, at running rpm's it gave just a tiny bit more evidence of a little, but not bad.
I know it has a leak around the steering box input shaft, but minimal. Please correct me if I am wrong, but should I be using hydraulic fluid in it. The rest of the grader is gear driven, but it has hoses going to the steering box.
I was told for engine oil that it should be 30 weight or 15-40, any input on that would be great.
When I went to look at it there were a couple trucks blocking it in, so I didn't get to drive it any. I've since talked to the owner that's out of state and he says to just move them wherever and drive it. Game on!
If anyone has any advice on things I should pay attention to, please feel free to say something.



 

 

[krusty]

I have an old D model Allis grader and love it. Different from a Cat obviously but they are simple to work on. The steering is power steering and you can expect leaks everywhere on old equipment. Mine uses hydraulic fluid. ACMOC has all the answers to Cat specific machines. I had to replace the drive chain on one side and was pretty simple to do as they stretch. Get a service manual and you will be set. Ebay has cheap ones if your not in a hurry.

[A-z farmer]

Cat told us to use straight 30 in everything but that was many years ago so I am sure the oil specs have changed .Good luck with your grader I might have a book for the engine I will check my archives.
Zeke

[justallan1]

Thanks guys.
I don't really know if it's a great deal or not, but the man wants $5,500 for it and it runs great.
My plan is when I drive it I'm going to set the bade down to catch the cement curb and see how much "oomph" it has left in it. Right now it's sitting pretty near the center of a town and they'd probably frown on me pushing any dirt around with it.
I'd buy it right now, but I really want to check the brakes as I've been told that you can spend a bucket of money on them real easy.

I'm getting this thing to try to make a few extra bucks. I work on an 80,000 acre ranch and we've needed one since before I came here. My boss got with the owners of the ranch and they've agreed to hire me to maintain the roads and pay hourly+fuel and fluids, plus it'll be during the regular workday.
It's pretty much a good deal all around if it can make it about 6-8 months. ;D :D

[Resonator]

Michael J Berg's YouTube channel has a few good videos about his dad's #12 grader. One in video particular (1952 Cat Motor Grader controls) goes over how the pto gear driven mechanisms work, and repairs he's done. Just looking at the pic., I would check the tires condition how much tread they have. Also check the cutting edge - moldboard for wear, and look for cracks and welds on the frame.

[moodnacreek]

If that's a D318 engine and I believe it is, they where great, one of the best diesels ever made. Too bad the pony is gone. The younger generation doesn't seem to understand. Granted it is more maintenance and it has a carburetor, mag and water pump. This stuff from Cat is expensive if you can get it. But I know that it can get cold in Montana and if that pony starts [and it will] well then let it run while you get breakfast and when you go back out mama will think in is fourth of July. I sawed for years with a D318, kept an extra pair of gloves on the manifold. I miss it.  Good luck with the grader.

[barbender]

The good ol' knucklebuster. If you don't know what that means, Allan, you'll figure it out soon enough😊 Glad to see you back on here, I was just wondering to myself the other day how things were up in Colstrip. I was born in Sheridan, btw.

[justallan1]

Michael J Berg's YouTube channel has a few good videos about his dad's #12 grader. One in video particular (1952 Cat Motor Grader controls) goes over how the pto gear driven mechanisms work, and repairs he's done. Just looking at the pic., I would check the tires condition how much tread they have. Also check the cutting edge - moldboard for wear, and look for cracks and welds on the frame.

The moldboard is in real good shape.
The thing will need tires on the rear for sure, the front tires are in great shape.
Looks like we're going to have 3 sunny days in a row, so hopefully I can get back down there and let it run for an hour to see what it acts like.
Thanks for the advice guys.

[Ed_K]

 I ran a 112 with that engine yrs ago, keep an eye on the radiator water ph. I had to change an injector a time or two due to the injector body rusting thru. Their easy to change but be careful loosening the steel injector lines. And buy yourself some jell filled gloves.

[florida]

The price seems high to me. I've looked at and priced graders for several years now and generally speaking one that age would run $4,000 or less. I've watched a lot of this guys videos since he recovers and repairs a lot of old heavy iron. He got an even older grader last year.

Caterpillar D2 #5J1113 Diesel Engine Assembly Ep.26: Reconditioning The Fuel Tower - YouTube

[tacks Y]

Cutting edge looks good in the picture. Check the brakes, I worked on one I think a 12 and I broke my porta power on it.  The drums are a real pain. I have a Huber Maintainer, mickey mouse compared to a real grader and 1 drum I can not get off. This old iron I always look in the radiator when running for bubbles, could be problems. 

[justallan1]

Cutting edge looks good in the picture. Check the brakes, I worked on one I think a 12 and I broke my porta power on it.  The drums are a real pain. I have a Huber Maintainer, mickey mouse compared to a real grader and 1 drum I can not get off. This old iron I always look in the radiator when running for bubbles, could be problems.

I did look in the radiator just while checking the fluids.
Thank you, I'll add that to my list.

[BargeMonkey]

 I hate to ask but since a couple of you guys know the older graders... anyone have an idea on this one ? 






 Piles of this stuff... I mean row after row after row. Found that sitting out back. Talked to a guy I know from western NY trying to find a home for it, even for parts, I hate to see it go for scrap if it could make another one run ? How many old cat D2d and D3s does someone want restore? I counted 6 complete, I know a couple where ran a few yrs ago 😂 

[Banjo picker]

I hope you have run one before....grader is the only thing I ever tried to run that I just couldn't get the hang of.  I could do that fancy grading...(up and down)...but the plain flat that everyone wants .... that was a problem.  I told my boss when he was wanting me to run the grader that I wasn't going to work there long enough to be a good grader man.  Banjo

[justallan1]

I hope you have run one before....grader is the only thing I ever tried to run that I just couldn't get the hang of.  I could do that fancy grading...(up and down)...but the plain flat that everyone wants .... that was a problem.  I told my boss when he was wanting me to run the grader that I wasn't going to work there long enough to be a good grader man.  Banjo

I've run them a little, but certainly not enough to say that I know what I'm doing at all. :D
Since I came to this ranch better than 11 years ago, I've been using a sloppy used up Rhino blade behind a Ford TW-25 tractor with a stiff clutch and no down pressure on the 3 point.
All this thing has to do is fill in the ruts on existing roads, so it should be like night and day compared to the Ford.

[justallan1]

Cutting edge looks good in the picture. Check the brakes, I worked on one I think a 12 and I broke my porta power on it.  The drums are a real pain. I have a Huber Maintainer, mickey mouse compared to a real grader and 1 drum I can not get off. This old iron I always look in the radiator when running for bubbles, could be problems.

I did look in the radiator just while checking the fluids.
Thank you, I'll add that to my list.

I got to thinking about this and decided I should have asked, what does bubbles in the radiator mean?

[donbj]

I got to thinking about this and decided I should have asked, what does bubbles in the radiator mean?

Leaking head gasket

[donbj]

Engine has to be running to see bubbles

[justallan1]

Engine has to be running to see bubbles

Thinking on it now, I think I did pop the cap off the radiator when it was running, looking for oil.
Either way, I'll check again.

[Oliver05262]

Eric: Tandem motor graders, the best I know. I may be wrong on the serial number prefixes and what I put down may not be all of them.
 4 cylinder either a 112 or a 212. Should be a tag on the engine block and one on the front frame with model # and serial #. They may not be the same due to engine swaps.
212 grader S/N will be preceeded by 1R or 1U maybe gasoline was a 2R--  and then the serial number.
112 grader S/N will be 2M or 3U
212 is smaller and lighter; the engine is smaller than the 112

6 cylinder grader is a #12 with a D318 or (early) D4600 engine. 112 is very similar, but a few things are different, mostly lighter due to less horsepower. Possibly late, late 12's had a D333 or even a 3306 engine
#12 prefix 9K, 8T
That one you show? How far west is it? I put a clutch in a 112 last summer. A great learning experience. Cat stuff is HEAVY.

[BargeMonkey]

Oliver, that machine and quite a few others are down by me, 12076 zipcode. My GF's father owned a large junkyard, passed away recently and she is just starting to go thru stuff. I dont want to see something scrapped that could possibly be saved or parts for a machine to rebuild. 

[D2 Cody]

Just, I have an 8T 12 now I am restoring and used to own another one I sold. My dad has been in the excavating business my whole life and bought the one I have now when I was young and told me and my little brother if we could learn to run it then he would let us run the nice stuff next lol. I have books for mine if you need anything specific I may be able to help. I am kind of a dummy on most stuff but do know my Caterpillar stuff and will help if I can. Good luck with the purchase. Also Barge do you have a number a guy can call to talk to someone about the D2s and 4s, if you want you can pm me. 

[justallan1]

Just, I have an 8T 12 now I am restoring and used to own another one I sold. My dad has been in the excavating business my whole life and bought the one I have now when I was young and told me and my little brother if we could learn to run it then he would let us run the nice stuff next lol. I have books for mine if you need anything specific I may be able to help. I am kind of a dummy on most stuff but do know my Caterpillar stuff and will help if I can. Good luck with the purchase. Also Barge do you have a number a guy can call to talk to someone about the D2s and 4s, if you want you can pm me.

Thank you Sir. Access to some books and knowledge would be a huge help.

[tacks Y]

Bubbles could be hole in liner or liner o-rings also.

[snowstorm]

there used to be a guy around here that had one. he was really good with it. 30 yrs ago he was showing everyone the bill for having cat rebuild the trans. it was 10k