Skid Steer vs Tractor

[Fairchance]

I am looking to buy a piece of equipment to load logs onto my bandmill. How much advatage does a skid steer have over a tractor? A skid steer was recommended due to the roll cage/safety aspect of the design. What do you guys think?

[brdmkr]

I like my tractor with FEL.  I can't say whether it is as good as a skidsteer for loading logs, but implements for it are much cheaper and it is 'more general' in that I can break a garden, bushhog, etc with it.

[Bibbyman]

Just my 2¢ ... I'm not a fan of either.   

While I've never owned a skidsteer,  I've been around a number of them.  Seems like there always somewhere between on their nose or on their tail.   The ones with tires tend to plow up a lot of ground.  I don't like the idea of climbing in and out over or under the load.

Farm tractors with a front end loader are an adaption.  The machine is not weighted enough to handle heavy loads.  Often the front axle and tires are not designed for constant use with heavy loads.  Look at a standard farm tractor and then look at an industrial tractor that is the basis of a backhoe.

A lot of people use skidsteers and farm tractors but a rough terrain forklift, wheel loader, or backhoe/industrial tractor would better fill the need.

[WH_Conley]

I have used a farm tractor for years. Not the best option. I feel it was better than anything else at the time.

[DanG]

Whatever will pick up a log and set it on the mill is good.  For my money, a forklift is the best option for that task.  If you shop wisely, you can get a forklift and a farm tractor with loader for what you would spend on a good skidsteer.

[Dave Shepard]

You can also buy a tractor with a ROPS/FOPS structure. It really depends on what your lifting needs are, and what else you might use the machine for. I like my Kubota, as it is an industrial backhoe loader, but I can also take the hoe off and use three point hitch. It can do more things than the skid loader. Run a mower, winch, box scraper, plow etc. Skid loaders are great for very specialized purposes. The tracked machines lift a lot, but are much more expensive to own and maintain. Both types of skid loader tear heck out of most any non-paved surface. Visibility and egress of skid loaders is also compromised. I lean toward a well ballasted tractor, or as Bibby suggested, a rough-terrain lift of some sort. A material handler is also a good choice, but less versatile than some options.

I use a 644 Lull and a Samsung 150 (3 yard class) payloader at work. Both have their ups and downs.

This is my Kubota. Will lift a 3,000 log, or a stack of lumber about a ton.

[cheyenne]

I have both a skid steer & tractor plus a backhoe & excavator. I prefer loading logs on the mill with the skidsteer with forks, But it is a ground breaker. Unless you take the bucket off a tractor or backhoe and replace it with forks your sight line will be vastly impaired. I also find the controls on the skidsteer are a lot more precise. I admit a tractor is a more versitle machine as is a backhoe or excavator. Now you fall into the toy trap. I gotta get me one of them.......Cheyenne

[Bibbyman]

Years ago when we were looking to buy a loader,  we saw a small, articulated wheel loader made by JCB that had 3 point hitch and PTO.  You could mount a backhoe, trencher, or any farm implement.   Looked to me to be a real all around vehicle.  'Corse, they were not giving them away.

[ahlkey]

I agree with Bibbyman that neither a skidster or tractor is best for high production loading to the sawmill.  I have both and while you can make them work they are not designed to do the job well.  I have a small log loader trailer with grapple that does great job around the sawmill.  It is primarily used in the woodlot as a forwarder but also works excellent with my truck with a portable hydraulic power unit.   It is hard to imagine anything better as I can turn the log 180 degrees or set the log on the sawmill bed with little or no direct impact.  It is also good at picking up the slabs or anything else required around the woodlot.

[htpd43]

You can also buy a tractor with a ROPS/FOPS structure. It really depends on what your lifting needs are, and what else you might use the machine for. I like my Kubota, as it is an industrial backhoe loader, but I can also take the hoe off and use three point hitch. It can do more things than the skid loader. Run a mower, winch, box scraper, plow etc. Skid loaders are great for very specialized purposes. The tracked machines lift a lot, but are much more expensive to own and maintain. Both types of skid loader tear heck out of most any non-paved surface. Visibility and egress of skid loaders is also compromised. I lean toward a well ballasted tractor, or as Bibby suggested, a rough-terrain lift of some sort. A material handler is also a good choice, but less versatile than some options.

I use a 644 Lull and a Samsung 150 (3 yard class) payloader at work. Both have their ups and downs.

This is my Kubota. Will lift a 3,000 log, or a stack of lumber about a ton.

i agree. i use a Kubota L35 - i believe it's considered a compact construction model.  they are tough machines.

[gemniii]

I am looking to buy a piece of equipment to load logs onto my bandmill. How much advatage does a skid steer have over a tractor? A skid steer was recommended due to the roll cage/safety aspect of the design. What do you guys think?

To answer your q - SS or Tractor to load logs -
SS with a forklift attachment.
But it's pretty single purpose.  If all you want to do is load logs get a forklift.

[sgschwend]

It doesn't take long before the operator starts climbing out of the skid steer with a load, such as when you remove part of a cant.  Not fun and not safe.

By the time you get a tractor big enough to pick up a large log the tractor is so big you need a lot of room to make turns.  Making you want to go back to the skid steer. 

I have used the two you mentioned and also a mini excavator but ended up purchasing an all terrain fork lift.  Good size but still able to take it out on jobs.  The forklift has load tilt and load offset which you won't obtain with the others.

I value mine as much as the sawmill for making my operation go.

[ladylake]

  Between a skidsteer and a tractor I'd take the skidsteer by far. Way easyier to get around, you can see the forks, works great in a tight wood, can change attachments real fast.  The down side, they tear up dirt and when moving bundles of lumber it's hard to see the end of the pile sometimes.    Steve

[Cedarman]

The very best for a log yard is an articulated wheel load with log clamps.  You can move logs, unload trucks safely, move lumber and is nicest to the log yard.

Next is ATV forklift.  They will lift twice as much as a SS or tractor.  Nice on yard, but usually just have forks with no clamp.  Best for moving stacks of lumber.  Will work with logs, but you have to have a good eye for center of gravity of the logs.

Then comes SS.  Most versatile in log yard.  Only good for 2 to 3000 # loads.  Hard on yards.  Tracked varieties expensive to maintain, but in wet conditions worth their weight in gold.  Always lover boom to get in or out.  Keeps you agile.

Most versatile over all as far as add ons.  More prone to tip sideways with off balanced logs.  Takes 40 acre farm to turn around.  Get one with 4 wheel drive if possible.  Terrible backing up hills with a load.  Harder to know where fork tips are.

[mike_van]

Tractor by a mile - Just what I'm used to - I can load logs all day, never tear up the sod. Easier to get on/off of than in/out of.     A zillion 3 poit hitch attachments out there.  With a 3 point winch & chains, you can go just about anywhere & pull out anything that grows near me.

[ladylake]

Tractor by a mile - Just what I'm used to - I can load logs all day, never tear up the sod. Easier to get on/off of than in/out of.     A zillion 3 poit hitch attachments out there.  With a 3 point winch & chains, you can go just about anywhere & pull out anything that grows near me.

  Sounds like you don't have a skidsteer.     Steve

[bandmiller2]

Simple if you have a big operation get an articulated loader with forks,medium get a skid steer,smaller use your tractor.Cramped quarters its hard to beat a skid steer,but it seems your always overloading them.Last week I was moving a heavy 'whack' of stuck boards if I leaned forward in the seat it would tip foward,lean back four wheels on tera.As long as you keep your loads low with a skid your quite safe.My own mill I use an old farm tractor with forks, Hydraulic relief set so rear wheels won't come off the ground, only lift on level ground. Frank C.

[Banjo picker]

I am looking to buy a piece of equipment to load logs onto my bandmill. How much advatage does a skid steer have over a tractor? A skid steer was recommended due to the roll cage/safety aspect of the design. What do you guys think?

I would venture that although you said "load logs onto my bandmill" you will be doing a lot more than that.  I use a Kubota  70 hp tractor with fel and I do ok, BUT it ain't the best choise if work the mill is all you are gona do with it.  Unloading trucks is dangerous with tractor or ss.  I am talking log trucks not 16 ft flat trailers.  I have a Prentice 210 C for that.  But without the knuckle boom I would go with Bibbys sugestion of a rough terian lift with teliscopic boom.  Look in his gallery.  With one of those you could unload a good size log and still be far enough away that if something messed up s you don't get killed .  jmo   Tim

[Handy Andy]

  I have both a farm tractor w/ fel, and a skid steer, and use the skid steer for loading logs. Thing about the tractor, you are way in the back and can't see well.  You are right there on the skid steer, and don't break things if you are careful.  If you were really bent on having a tractor, those NH bi directional machines look great.  They are 4 wheel drive, have a 3 point hitch, and you turn the seat around and put forks on it and you have a fork lift.  They are a heavy farm tractor and you can see almost like a skidsteer when operating in that mode.

[Bibbyman]

 



We love our Terex telescopic boom loader so much, we bought a second one.  Call it "his and hers" - we use the larger for handling logs and the smaller for about everything else.  Both have forks and we have a bucket and grapple.





Even the "little one" will lift and move a lot of weight.





And place it a long way off.

[ladylake]

 Bibby    Send one of those up here, I'll try it out for 10 years or so and give my opinion then.   Nice machines.    Steve

[Magicman]

I can't touch Bibby's Terex's.

Skidsteers are not "turf friendly".  Some of the newer ones that I've seen have an "unlocked" mode.  They surely can handle a load in tight quarters.

I use a JD 1530 with a modified hay loader on the rear.  Looks like a forklift, only in the back.  Works well but guess what, with a heavy log, the front end comes up.... :(

For heavy's, I use an old '65 Oliver backhoe e/w 4wd.  It will pick up more than the WM can saw.  Any front loader needs to be 4wd.

Thankfully, I don't have to use either except with my own logs.



   

[pineywoods]

I had to make the same decision, tractor or skidsteer. Couldn't afford both. What it all comes to is this---skidsteer is unbeatable for some things, not worth a Dang for lots of others. A tractor with loader is not the very best for anything around a mill, but it's good enough for anything you might need. Then there's the cost consideration. Skidsteers are expensive to buy and maintain. You can easily wind up with more money in material handling equipment than you have in the mill. Tractors-- get one that's big enough... Big used tractors are cheaper than small ones. Big old industrial backhoes can be had cheaper than a small farm tractor. One other item not mentioned here was a tie-breaker for me. In most places, tractors are road legal as long as they have flashing yellow lights. I use an M series industrial Kubota, front loader with forks, home-made winch and trailer hitch on the back. Take tractor and 16 ft trailer to woods, use tractor to skid out logs, same tractor to load logs on trailer, same tractor as tow vehicle for trip back to the mill. Not the best for anything, but good enough at everything.   

[woodsteach]

I'd vote for the skidsteer if it is a small 1-2 man operation.
For those of you who don't like climbing in and out I do understand but climbing on and off a tractor I don't think is much easier.  My next skidsteer will probably be the JCB with a side door, but the mrs says that will be a few years. :D

woodsteach

ps what is wrong with using 2 of the 4 tires on a skidsteer? ;) ;)
I've got to get a phone with a camera to take some OOPS pix.

[jander3]

I had the same issue a few years back.  I went with an old tractor and loader ($3000) in lieu of the 10-15K for a used skid steer.  Right decision for me based on price and flexiblity. 

[mike_van]

 
[/quote]

  Sounds like you don't have a skidsteer.     Steve
[/quote]                                                                                                                   On a list of "I gotta have" equipment, a skidsteer would be last, just not something I need.  The few I've used I found really hard to get in & out of, and that was before the 2 back operations.  The IH on the other hand, step on, step off.  Noisey, they gotta be hot cooped up in there in the summer too. How do you see to back up? They can't be easy to work on, a lotta stuff crammed into a small area.  So, all you skid steer buyers out there, the guy bidding against you won't be me!  :D 8)

[Magicman]

Big old industrial backhoes can be had cheaper than a small farm tractor.   

Good point.  I could/should have mentioned that that old Oliver, shown above, cost me $3800.  One new rear tire, a transfer case seal, and brakes was an additional $500.  It has a 78 HP Waukesha diesel engine.  I don't even know what it's limits are.

[ladylake]

 

  Sounds like you don't have a skidsteer.     Steve
[/quote]                                                                                                                   On a list of "I gotta have" equipment, a skidsteer would be last, just not something I need.  The few I've used I found really hard to get in & out of, and that was before the 2 back operations.  The IH on the other hand, step on, step off.  Noisey, they gotta be hot cooped up in there in the summer too. How do you see to back up? They can't be easy to work on, a lotta stuff crammed into a small area.  So, all you skid steer buyers out there, the guy bidding against you won't be me!  :D 8)
[/quote]

  I have both, the tractor doesn't see much use.  You cant see to back up or much to the side either, look behind before you get in then just turn around.  They're not to hot with the door off and I wear ear muffs all the time, I have a 1070 Case that's a lot louder. I have a Case 75xt  skidsteer , with the cab up it's not bad to work on.    Steve

[sgschwend]

Here is mine, all terrain FWD with lock, automatic, power sterring, Cummins 4BT.

[mike_van]

Steve G - I like that one - 

[Magicman]

Steve, that looks like one BAD machine..... ;D

[ladylake]

Here is mine, all terrain FWD with lock, automatic, power sterring, Cummins 4BT.

  Looks like a nice machine, how much can it lift?   Does anyone use one of those miltary surplus machines that looks kind of like a Terex? There's one around 20 miles from, should stop in and check it over.   Steve , give us some details on your sawmill, hp, log size, band, etc.  Looks nice to me.   Steve

[sgschwend]

I purchased the forklift in a military surplus auction out at Georgia.  Web site was equipment liquidators, there were 26 being sold at the same time (I would guess prices ran from $3K to $5K).  New they are about $40K.  It needed a ring gear and starter, not too much effort to get it going, as you can see I had planned on painting it but never seem to find the time.  It has a rated lift of 4000 pounds able to lift any log that would fit on my mill.

The mill is Mighty Mite (made in the Portland Oregon area).  It has a 3 cylinder Perkins engine, a 36" diameter log capacity (28" wide cut) and the mill is setup to cut logs up to 24' in length.  It uses 19" diameter machined wheels,  a 166" long blade that can be as wide as 1.5" (I normally use 1 3/8 saws, but have a few 1.5" for evaluation).  It is fully hydraulics with two log turners and also a adjustable height fence that acts much like a table saw fence.  The set works are also hydraulic with no computer, just a scale.

There is a short video of the mill cutting on my web page, it was showing a technique that reduces the number of cuts through the bark.

[ladylake]

 Steve  Took a look at your video,  how do you know when the log is square?  I like to turn 180 after opening the 1st face which results in cutting through a little less bark than 90 and sure seems faster when cutting dimension lumber  I like those chain turners, sure wish I had 2 on my mill instaed of 1 and that might happen one of these days.  Your running a 3 cylinder  Perkins, how many hp?  My 3 cylinder Isusu is rated at 28 hp but seems like 50 compared to the 27 hp Kohler that came with the mill. You would really like a good working setworks, for sure on shorter logs as you don't have to bring the head back near you, just clear the end of the loig and saw . That's a good price on that loader, my skidsteer was $15000 ,   Steve

[sgschwend]

The fence is square to the table, by setting it up but below the saw the fence/mill table makes a nice big right angle.  I can look down the log and see when the log is square.  Or if I am rotating the log into the fence the fence will set the right angle. 

I have done the 180 degree rotation too, mostly with big beams.  Which reduces the bark cutting in half.  Which is a substantial saw blade saving. 

As to Hp, don't know, user's handbook does not list it.  I believe it is a 33 Kw which converts to 44 hp.

[Warren]

Over the years, have managed to collect a 60 hp tractor with fel, 8k lb offroad forklift and skid steer.  Paid $5K or less for each piece of equipment by shopping hard and waiting for deals.  Have added to each machine over the years, time and money permitting...

Currently, the only sawmill work the tractor does is skid logs out of the woods.  The offroad forklift is only used to move logs and bundles that weigh more than 2,500 lbs.  Skid steer does everything else, 90-95% of work.

Knowing what I know now, for my operation, if I had to go with only one material handling unit for everything, it would be a tracked skid steer with the greatest lift capacity I could afford...  I would avoid the "HUGE" logs, and build bundles that were manageable with that unit.

-w-

[mike_van]

One last thought & I'll zip it -  :D  To move your tractor any reasonable distance, you can just drive it. Pull the sawmill if you're portable. 28 mph out of mine.  The skid steer though, you'll want a pretty good trailer, I can't imagine driving one 5 miles down the highway.  My job this spring was 30 + cord of locust,  just about a mile from home. I took the tractor & a 4 wheel running gear everyday - came home by noon with a good load on the wagon. 

[solidwoods]

Depends on what other jobs you need done.

How about a trailer with a knuckle boom on it.
Those can also move stacks of lumber, just use a spreader bar/beam and chains.
It also bridges the gap of "how can I pickup/transport that free set of logs".
A pin on scoop bucket can also be built to scoop sawdust etc.

Or a knuckle boom truck with trailer is nice, you may get more knuckle boom per $.

Tree svc's use truckle like a Ford 9000 dump with a behind cab knuckle boom.  That would be a good multi use log fetcher.  Easy to work on low tech and still plenty of parts available.

Skid steers can be a little techy to work on and it's built very compact which can make some jobs harder, parts/pro shop time ain't cheap either.  Tracks and no flat tires are big $.

You could also factor how many other job tools you'd like  ie. 3pt hitch implements,  bucket,  back hoe.

I use an old Ford backhoe called Cracker and an old knuckle boom truck called Big Yellow.
jim

[DGK]

 



I haven't tried using the grapple to load logs directly on the mill but it does move the logs around the yard very easily. My logs are small so having them lined up on a deck and then using the hydraulic log loader works well.

[okmulch]

I love my Cat 287c skid steer.It is a rubber tracked loader. It has an air ride seat. A pressurized cab, so it is quiet and dust proof. Air condition and heater. Of course I am driving it for many hours a day and so comfort was a must , and the more comfort the more the price. This 287c has better viewing then the older models. Just by turning my head side to side with the boom up just a little I can most of the tracks and arae around the loader. It also comes with a large rear view mirror so you do not have to turn around backwards to see behind.
This is just my opinon , because I know most people are not in the skidsteers all day like I am so some luxury might not be worth it.

[spencerhenry]

to those who say a tractor is more versatile, obviously you dont know much about skid steers. every attachment that is available for a tractor is available for a skid steer and a whole lot more. tractors using pto to run attachments have the issue of shear bolts, and changing out a pto attachment is far more effort than a skid steer attachment.  people keep saying there are higher cost of maintenance with tracked machines, i own a tracked machine and cant for the life of me figure out where those costs would be.
i used to own a gehl dl6h-42 a 42 foot reach forklift, i had a fork carriage that had 5 foot forks, that were 5'6" apart, excellent for moving lumber, fair for moving logs, with the bucket on it, a great sawdust/ snow removal tool. i owned it for my framing contracting business. a great machine, but even with 4 wheel steer, it takes a lot of space. i sold the forklift, and just before that, i bought a Mustang 2109 skidsteer with removable rubber track units. it weighs 13,200 with the tracks on it, it will pick up almost 6000 pounds, visibility is great, with 115 hp there arent many attachments i cant run. it is far more versatile than any tractor i have owned. the tracks offer excellent traction, the stability is also excellent. i only have a few attachments right now, but i use it more than any one machine i have ever had and just yesterday i asked myself why i didnt buy one sooner. i have forks, a 90" snow bucket, 7' snowblower, and a 10' snow plow. how many hobby farmer tractors can push a 10' snowplow? by the way i live at 8600' in the colorado mountains and get LOTS of snow, sometimes as much as 350" in a season.
the only thing i dont like about a skidsteer is the lack of ground clearance. if operated right, the damage to the ground is also minimal, you just can pivot the machine all the time, but the maneuverability of a skidsteer is second to none if you need it.

[gunman63]

I'd vote for a skid steer anytime, wouldnt  trade mine for a tractor or forklift, works great for about anything, needs hardly any room to turn around if need be, plows snow  faster than any pickup or tractor  in most  yards,  great visabilty  in front, just need to remember whats behind u, or turn around, ground is  froze 6 months of the year up here so no tearing it up, Should  have bought one years ago, not 5  years ago. and as far as up keep, not any more so than anyting else  take care of it , dont abuse it.

[DanG]

Yeah they have all sorts of attachments for skidsteer machines, but they are expensive.  I've never seen any attachments on the used market they way you find farm tractor implements.  Never have seen or heard of a hay baler or a disk harrow for one, either.  A whole bunch of us have farm land as well as a sawmill, and already have the tractor.  I'll take the combo of a tractor and a forklift over the skidsteer, any day.  If you shop carefully, you can get both for less money, too.

[cilley]

Hello everyone........what one needs, wants and can afford are always the things that determine what we end up with for a piece of equipment........in my case money was the one thing that determined what i bought..........i found a nice 62 ford 4000 with loader......it had only 1150 hrs on it and was well maintained........2 owners and the last one was a tractor mechanic........i had a set of forks made to fit the bucket.......i use this to load my log deck.......works great and can lift anything that i want put on the mill......i also can use it to haul my cord wood trailer..........and i will use it to plow the yard this winter..........for $4500 it works for me........alan

[stonebroke]

47 years old and only 1150 hours. Lets see that is 24.4 hours a year. About a half hour a week. Bet it sat in the shed a whole lot.

Stonebroke

[beenthere]

cilley
I'll bet the Ford is handy to have around.

I got rid of my skidsteer. Too slow, couldn't pull/operate a brush mower or plow, or skid a log, or give me a smooth ride. A few things it would do just fine. Lettin me get quickly/easily on and off wasn't one of the plus's. 

[Handy Andy]

  I saw a forklift today that would do a job around a mill.  Think the # was 586 Case.  Looked at the forks and how they are attached, and appeared to be a shame they didn't have a 3 point hitch attaching the forks to the machine so you could change the forks for a bucket.  That would be a versatile machine if built that way.  It appeared to actually be a tractor with the controls turned around and forks on the back, so the drive wheels carry the load.

[ErikC]

  The worst thing I used on the ground for loading the mill was a cat 933 track loader, with backhoe. That tore up the site pretty good : Skid steers seem a lot quicker than the backhoe, but the ones I used were a little on the light side. So the backhoe wins for me. I would have liked the skidsteer pretty well if they were a bigger model though.





ps I think I could put the biggest log that skidsteer will carry in the forks and then pick up the whole thing and carry it off with the backhoe, for big logs you need a big machine.

[bandmiller2]

Good stuff cheap,most of us cannot afford or justify the best and most efficient loader for the mill.Solid frame loaders like the old houghs or Michigans can be had reasonable.Yes I know their awkward and take an acre to turn.Take the bucket off and install forks and have a machine you won't overload.Every mill should have a log brow/deck to hold logs as its not good form to place logs on the mill with a machine.Had an old Michigan at my first mill even the largest logs were childs play and FWD, snow ment nothing.Don't be afrade of a big loader with a gas engine their even cheaper than diesel and are better for starts and stops.Frank C.

[Bibbyman]

I am looking to buy a piece of equipment to load logs onto my bandmill. How much advatage does a skid steer have over a tractor? A skid steer was recommended due to the roll cage/safety aspect of the design. What do you guys think?

Back to the original question.  Another idea..

I went back to your old posts and noted you bought a Cook's MP-32 manual mill.  Instead of a tractor or skid steer,  maybe another option would be to upgrade to an hydraulic mill?

[chevytaHOE5674]

Are you only ever going to use it to load logs onto the mill? Or possible use it for other things?

I have both a skid steer, backhoe, and a few farm tractors. I can not possible imagine how the skid steer is as versatile as a tractor with a FEL. The tractor can load and move logs, as well as get them out of the woods. The tractor can also plow and disc fields, make hay, push or blow snow, mow, etc. And as mentioned 3pt attachments for a tractor are relatively cheap and abundant.

A big skid steer would be perfect for loading logs and other bucket related tasks, and then marginal/ no use at other tasks.

It just comes down to what you want out of a machine. IMO

[gunman63]

just a partical list of skidsteer attachments
forks   many different kinds
dirt buckets   many differnt kinds
snow plow
snow blower
tele booms
tree shears
post augers
backhoes
brush hogs
concrete hammers
grapples
rock buckets
root buckets
landscape rakes
landscape levelers
log spliters
bales spears
brooms
stump grinders
receiver plate
tree spades
wood chippers
wood processors
concrete buckets
post drivers
dozer blades
roller packers
roter tillers
and i know i missed some.

[chevytaHOE5674]

just a partical list of skidsteer attachments

brush hogs

Last i priced one it was like 4k for a good 60" brush hog for a skid steer, I paid like 1500 for a 72" for a tractor 3pt... Thats a huge price difference.

[nas]

Back to the original question...
If I were looking for a machine specifically for loading logs on my mill, and I had an area to do it on that was hard packed all year, I would get the skid steer.  If there was mud to deal with, or I was going to use it for log skidding or wagon pulling, I would get the tractor.  As for the safety issue, both are safe if used within their limits. 

Gunman63
Yes there are a lot of attachments for skid steers, but they usually cost 2-3x what the equivalent 3ph attachment costs. 

Nick

[gunman63]

yes  i will agree cost attachements are usually higher but need to compare apples to apples when comparing prices,  ive seen them for $1500 for a tractor mount,  but no where as heavy built as the skid steer. loook at post hole augers, no comparsion on tractor mount to  skidsteer,, cost isnt much difference on them, skidsteer style is self leveling, easy to move side to side front to back, way better than a tractor. but what it comes down to is what the one spending the money  thinks is better. I just have learned  that just cause its cheaper doesnt mean its better to buy

[nas]

but what it comes down to is what the one spending the money  thinks is better. I just have learned  that just cause its cheaper doesnt mean its better to buy

I agree 100%, BUT... if I had to choose between a tractor or a skid steer for general use around my mill and woodlot it would definitely be a tractor.

Nick

[Fairchance]

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Ironwood]

Gunman, I wonder what that list would cost?  $$$$$

Never met a forklift I didn't like. Have a small tractor and FEL, and,.....uhmmmm several forklifts. I do ALOT of material handling and on/off, forklifts are the way to go for me. I have many in the 20-40 year old range. All resonably priced and generally dependable. If I had ton of construction style work to do perhaps a SS, but I just rent them when needed or better yet find a HUNGRY construction guy with equipment and hire him!!!

Here are a few of the lifts, I generally keep them well maintained and painted up. I have two others not shown. All differing sizes and capacities. 3000-4500-6000-8000-14,000. If one breaks I always have a backup  :D I will likely sell a couple when the market improves, as I upgraded a bit during he last downturn :


It seems to be tha case that you can always find inexpensive GOOD lifts around if you keep your ear to the ground. I perfer Cats/Towmotor, Yale, Clark and newer imports (more $$$), but all good. I tend to like shuttle shift and pneumatics w/ common engines (Continentals, Chrysler 6's, w/ propane). Avoid older lifts w/ carbs as the Ethanol has begun to haunt them, or convert yourself to propane. One of mine is a diesel which I tend NOt to like as it is cold blooded. 


Ironwood

[Don K]

This thread almost sounds like an elementary school "my daddy is stronger than your daddy" Each person has their own preferences. Most people as stated had a life before sawmilling and Most people own acreage whether it be woodlot and/or pasture/cropland. They most likely owned a tractor before hand and used it in a bunch of ways. Technically skidsteers were developed for the industrial/construction field. Just recently have they been adapted for forestry type uses. Nobody in their right mind would buy a tractor and put a mulching head on it, though I have seen them at Moultrie. The tractor is not built for that.

The man's original question was to get a comparison about abilities of skidsteers and tractors. I'm sure out all these responses he can get a few valid ideas. I'm sure his decision will ultimately come down to: how much money can I afford to spend, What will give me the most overall use in my personal application, What will be easier to service and maintain, how much room do I have and what materials will I be handling and how, etc.?

As for my personal use I have a tractor with a FEL. I have acreage to mow, plow, and plant, Logs to skid, trailers to pull, area big enough to maneuver in and the list goes on. I crank my tractor everyday for something. Yea, I drool when I see the new tracked skidsteers but I ain't gonna spend what they cost and let it stay parked for days at a time because I ain't sawing. Instead I might buy a pool, camper, atv's or something else my whole family can enjoy when free time shows up.

It's like buying cars and trucks, everybody has their favorite, but they all go down the road. ;D

Don

[Bibbyman]

I've never owned a forklift but it seems to me that while they'd have no problem with bundled lumber or stuff on a skid,  they'd be handicapped when trying to handle logs because of the limited reach and fork tilt. 

For example,  how would you reach into a pile of logs and tilt the forks down at an angle to "dig" out a log?  Also, once you pick a log up,  would you have enough tilt back to roll it back against the back of the forks?  Or tilt them down enough to roll the log off?  How do they work for unloading a log truck? (Unless you have one big enough and with a clamp to take the whole bunk of logs.)

I'm guessing you'd have to pretty much keep your logs on a single layer or take the one on the bottom, front edge of the pile. 

The forks on our Terex will tilt up about 15 and under more than 90.  Sometimes the 15 is not enough tilt back to always roll a log back against the back of the forks.   I've had times when I've not paid enough attention and only rolled back the forks a little and then went down a slight slope and have the log roll off.

How are they on uneven terrain?  Our Terexes have limited give in their suspension and will high center on a bump or dip that puts say 6" of travel on the suspension.  Looks like you center machine with enclosed cab has about the same axle setup.

[beenthere]

Don K
You summed that up pretty well. 

And there sure is a variety of information for the future reader who stumbles onto this thourough discussion.

[Ironwood]

My point is this, IF you need to move material, dollar for dollar a forklift will move the most # at the least cost IF it suits your land/ needs.

Ironwood

[Banjo picker]

I have one more observation to add and then i'll shut up...I use a tractor with fel....and one draw back that it has that I don't rember being mentioned is that you can't see where the forks are as good as I wished you could...seems there is a brace or something alll ways in my line of site...but I cant afford anything besides what i have...it is better that the forks on the backhoe .....though it wont pick up as much...Tim

[beenthere]

Now if some speed is what is needed, take a look at this promo video of a new model from JD.   

http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/high_speed_dozer/764_hsd_video.html

[stonebroke]

looks like a CNH Quadra Trac. built to pull scrapers on ground with no rocks. Wonder what the tracks cost and how often you have to replace them?

Stonebroke

[Ironwood]

Bibby,

Some forklifts do roll forward and back better than others. I have run mine on fairly uneven terrain and even my hayfields and occasionally the woods even. I always buy ones which tilt  for/aft well. That is an important issue I had not mentioned. As far as "digging" a log out, yes, you need to stage well and I suppose have alittle more room to organize them than you might w/ your reach and all, but sacrificing a few more acres is worth the cheaper price to me. We all have addressed our "trade offs".

Ironwood

[backwoods sawyer]

I've never owned a forklift but it seems to me that while they'd have no problem with bundled lumber or stuff on a skid,  they'd be handicapped when trying to handle logs because of the limited reach and fork tilt. 

For example,  how would you reach into a pile of logs and tilt the forks down at an angle to "dig" out a log?  Also, once you pick a log up,  would you have enough tilt back to roll it back against the back of the forks?  Or tilt them down enough to roll the log off?  How do they work for unloading a log truck? (Unless you have one big enough and with a clamp to take the whole bunk of logs.)

I'm guessing you'd have to pretty much keep your logs on a single layer or take the one on the bottom, front edge of the pile. 

If all you have is a forklift, you will find that there is more then one way to skin a cat.
I am very limited on log storage space, and maneuvering space so a forklift was my choice. I have a deep ditch along the driveway that I dump logs into it is lined with smaller logs to keep the good logs out of the dirt. As far as unloading trucks it has the lift to get the logs over the sides and has the carrying capacity to handle several at a time, sure it is not a t-rex but it does the job nicely. The tight turning radius allows me to turn 90* in a narrow one lane road and place the logs where I want them as far as unloading tilt the forks forward and give a quick stop and you are ready for more. At the mill a couple of 4x4 stickers lets you get out from under the log. As far as digging the logs out 11,000 pounds gives you quiet a bit of push, and I stack my logs high. For the log that is on the bottom of the stack in the ditch just through a chain around it and lift it out, set it on the road, scoop it up, and off to the mill you go. For going down hill with a load a fork lift runs in reverse real good so the load is held tight to the mast, and there are no worries of loosing a log. I would like to have a nice flat log yard that went on as far as I could fill it, but I have to work with what I have. A tractor big enough to handle logs with a front end loader would be to long for my needs. A skid steer would be maneuverable enough but would not be able to stack lumber in large units as high as the forklift will. Again I am very limited on lumber storage as well. To go along with the forklift one of these mini excavators would be on my short list.

[Don K]

Pretty neat excavator. I've never seen one with a fel on it just a dozer blade.

Don

[petefrom bearswamp]

i only have  a tractor , Kubota 8540 with fel, forks and winch.
suits me!!.

[Raider Bill]

Pete, is that Bear swamp near Groton NY?

[Ironwood]

Winch is for the SWAMP?  ;D

Ironwood

[jcbrotz]

What the H!!! were you trying to pick up??

On that note I have both a tc30 New Holland love it but its a compact I could and have sold a few New Hollands to a few people due to what I put it thru I haven't knock on wood broke a thing. Then I gots me a Cat 262b talk about liften power I love it would not trade the skid steer for anything.

That being said it all depends on how far and how much you want to do with it. It will always be a pissing match one way or the other.

Just my 2¢ ... I'm not a fan of either.   

While I've never owned a skidsteer,  I've been around a number of them.  Seems like there always somewhere between on their nose or on their tail.   The ones with tires tend to plow up a lot of ground.  I don't like the idea of climbing in and out over or under the load.

Farm tractors with a front end loader are an adaption.  The machine is not weighted enough to handle heavy loads.  Often the front axle and tires are not designed for constant use with heavy loads.  Look at a standard farm tractor and then look at an industrial tractor that is the basis of a backhoe.

A lot of people use skidsteers and farm tractors but a rough terrain forklift, wheel loader, or backhoe/industrial tractor would better fill the need.

[beenthere]

jcbrotz
For the explanation of that pic, you need to go to the "okmulch" post here.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39019.msg561619.html#msg561619

Bibbyman 'borrowed' that pic for emphasis to his point.

[Bibbyman]

Welcome to the Forum jcbrotz.

Well,  I think this a good topic that covered a wide range of ideas and opinions and maybe a few facts.

The fact is,  if a machine was made to do one job perfectly,  it would do other jobs only so-so.  If a machine was made to do everything, it'd look like a five ton Swiss Army knife and would be cumbersome at every task. 

If I had a big mill that did 10-20 times as much material handling,  I'd have wheel loaders and forklifts. 

If I had one small mill for my personal use,  I'd probably use what I had the best I could.  And I've been there and done that.

[backwoods sawyer]

If I had one small mill for my personal use,  I'd probably use what I had the best I could.  And I've been there and done that.

When it comes right down to it the old puck up will skid log right to the mill. If you have enough room, when you fill up the area around the mill you can move it and start new stacks of lumber and edgings, thereby eliminating the need for any new equipment except for a good selection of pee-vees.

[jcbrotz]

Thanks for the welcome, I just stumbled across this site. Looks like a great place to learn, i've only been sawing for 5 years or so current mill is a woodmizer lt 40 with a 33hp kubota love it. I look forward to contributing when I can and learning from you guys.

[spencerhenry]

to you guys that say a skid steer is only so-so for skidding, you have obviously never used one or been around one in the woods. equipped with a skidding grapple, it will out pull a cable skidder by 3 to 1. if the skids are long, the advantage becomes less.  a skidsteer can easily bunch logs very effectively for a grapple skidder to come and haul off. i have a cable skidder, and a grapple skidder, but on the job my buddy has a skidsteer with a fecon skidding grapple. he can out skid either of my machines as long as the skids arent real long (over a quarter mile). there are places where a skidsteer isnt much good for skidding, like really rocky or steep areas, or if the snow gets over about 2.5 feet, or if someone has left all their stumps high. it sounds like most of you guys cut trees on relatively flat level ground, and are not cutting volume. i would put my skidsteer up against just about any farm tractor any day, both in the woods, and in the mill yard.

[Bibbyman]

 



Graple skider or....





Skid steer with graple?

[spencerhenry]

i have made my point. most people dont even know what a skidding grapple for a skidsteer is. ryans make them, fecon, and some others. it is a clamshell type grapple on a rotator. you can skid by driving backwards, or you can pick the entire log up and drive forward, or you can stack logs by lifting it from the end, with the skidsteer's ability to pivot, you can move logs fast get around in tight quarters.

a skidding grapple is NOT a grapple bucket or rake.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Because driving backwards hauling tree length wood in a skid steer is easy?? My neck would hurt after about 5 minutes of "skidding" with a skid steer.

[brooksmill]

Looks like Bibbyman has the right piece of equipment but I couldn't justify that for my little operation.  I have a Kubota 30 hp tractor and just purchased a used Cat 242 skid steer.  There's no comparison.  The skid steer is by far the best.  Can turn on a dime and has the capacity to lift large logs without the rearend getting light.  I have a set of forks on it.  My 2 cents worth.

[Don K]

Show me somebody that seriously skids over 3 trees a day with a skidsteer and I'll show you somebody who needs a chiropractor unless he is skidding across a ballfield and doesn't have to look back.

There ain't no way you can convince me that a skidsteer with a 24" 16 foot log pulling backwards in the woods can outpull a tractor. The tractor will pull two to one at least. ;)  If you can more power to you, I know I wouldn't want to do it. All the limitations you listed scratches it off the list for me. :

Don

[spencerhenry]

i make a living cutting and skidding timber. we have moved more wood with a skidsteer than most guys with their tractors will move in a lifetime. last winter we did 189 acres of select cut, removing 50% of the trees. the skidder only did the stuff that was too steep to drive, not too steep for the skidsteer, but too steep for the skidder. most of the trees were in the 30 to 40 foot long and 10 to 14" butts. green ponderosa in 1 foot of snow or more. the skidsteer was used in the woods to bunch for the skidder, and when within a couple of hundred yards of the deck, to skid to the deck. the skidsteer could easily handle 3 or 4 trees at a time depending on size sometimes 5 or 6. but at the deck the skidsteer could stack neatly and fast. then when not skidding the skidsteer was using a fecon and mulching slash, try that with a tractor. i know from personal experience that a skidsteer in the woods will out skid a cable skidder in on short skids. like i said before, if the ground is really rocky, or  really steep the advantage goes away.
i am not talking about a home-owner skidsteer. i am talking about machines that weigh in the neighborhood of 10,000#. steel over tire tracks in the winter and summer. my skidsteer with my the rubber tracks on it weighs 13,200 with no attachment, and has 115hp. i use a bobcat 90" snowbucket with road base, a full bucket and the machine is no where near tipping. a skidsteer is also far more stable than a tractor for side hill work.

as far as driving backwards, have you heard of a mirror? it is not very hard to travel FAST while skidding. most of the pictures i have seen on here of people in their mill yards or woods, shows flat ground. i live in the ROCKY mountains, on my 35 acres the elevation varies from 8200' to 8500', there are very few places i cant get my skidsteer. high stumps, big rocks, or rockfields are a problem. i know where i grew up in the midwest we had NO rocks, and elevation change on 160 acres was under 30', that is perfect skidsteer country.

[spencerhenry]

how about 150 trees a day? done it in up to 2' of snow

[chevytaHOE5674]

My question is... if a skid steer can pull more than a skidder, then why isn't everybody using one?

Backing up even with a mirror is tough over 1/4+ miles of twists, turns, and hills. I've also never seen a skidsteer than can move at the same speeds as a skidder loaded or unloaded (which means more turns with a skidder in any given time). Most I've seen a skid steer do is close to 10mph, and slower while turning, many skidders are capable of 15-20 mph and can maintain speed while turning, as can a farm tractor. Also most skid steers have ~8" of ground clearance where a skidder has 15-20" and a tractor has close to that. 



I can agree that around a mill a big skid steer can be effective, but in the woods when compared to a tractor or skidder I don't see it, not around here at least.

[beenthere]

I guess some will use skid steers and some will use tractors.  8) 8)

[Don K]

Spencer, you got any pictures. I for one would like to see some. I think it would be rather interesting.

Don

[backwoods sawyer]

Hey Spencer, I am familiar with your area, back in the 80's I spent some time up around Glenwood springs doing some seismograph work both with the truck thumpers and helicopters. I can see how the maneuverability of the skid steer in that type of terrain would be a big plus over the cumbersome skidder. Then again a machine like what you are operating would cost more then my whole milling operation, making it a mute point for me to dream about adding it to my operation, where a much smaller used skid steer or used tractor may fit into the budget with a little more ease.

[spencerhenry]

hope you've got rollover protection on that yard tractor if you are turning at 20mph!

i own 2 skidders and a skidsteer. there is no way in hell that you are ever skidding at 20mph in any of them. a skidder with a turn of logs is more like a fast walk, unless of course you are skidding in your proverbial ball field. any speed beyond a fast walk makes it hard just to stay in the seat, and that is in my 34,000# skidder, not to mention the abuse you are putting on the machine. i think the theoretical speed of my skidder is around 16 to 18 mph. theoretical, and actual are often far from the same thing. have you ever tried to drive an articulated machine at 20 miles an hour?

my point several posts ago was disputing the comments made that skidsteers were not worth anything in the woods. while that may be true in some instances, it is by no means true across the board. there are times when a skidsteer is a BETTER machine for the job. but all that aside, the original thread was about a tractor or a skidsteer around the mill. there is absolutely no way that anyone who has ever used both could come away with the opinion that a tractor is more versatile. the sheer number and variety of attachments for a skidsteer proclaims it to be more versatile. the only advantage i see to a tractor in the mill yard, is the clearance, but why do you need clearance in the mill yard? i recently sold a telescopic forklift, would lift 7000#, reach 27 feet in front of the front tires, and 42' high. great for moving lumber, ok for moving logs, ok with the bucket for moving firewood or sawdust, and not bad at snow removal, but talk about a dedicated machine, you dont take it into the woods, you dont mow grass with it, you dont dig holes with it. unless your mill yard is several acres, it is too big,
i have owned and run lots of machines. just last year, i bought my first skidsteer after seeing how effective they could be in the woods. now i wonder why i didnt buy one sooner. and by the way, they arent all that expensive. i paid $19,000 for my mustang 2109, it is a 2005 and had just under 1100 hrs, 115hp perkins, cab with heat and AC, lights, and good tires, i just wish i had a stereo in it.

it annoys me when people who have no experience with something profess to know everything. just because a guy you know, that knows a guy, whose brother once had a skidsteer, and he said they suck, doesnt mean that it is so.
i have owned a small farm tractor, 2 extending boom forklifts(and run almost every brand out there), still own 2 skidders (one dual arch grapple, one cable), log loader, sawmill, edger, dumptruck, army 6x6, and have lots of hours in excavators of all sizes, some dozer time(but i suck), ran snowcats at Aspen one season. those are things i know about, but i wont begin to tell you about what a feller buncher can and cant do.

[ladylake]

I agee, in the woods you can get in and out of places a tractor never could. I have both, the tractor sits in the yard most of the time.   Steve

[chevytaHOE5674]

hope you've got rollover protection on that farm tractor if you are turning at 20mph!

I do, same protection as a skidder.

As for speed, the return trip from the landing to the woods is where is helps. I can run 15-20 mph and stay in the seat as I make good roads and smooth them out. Actually I road my skidder quiet often getting from job to job.

it annoys me when people who have no experience with something profess to know everything. just because a guy you know, that knows a guy, whose brother once had a skidsteer, and he said they suck, doesnt mean that it is so.

I have multiple farm tractor, a skidder, a skidsteer, etc. Had all three in the woods, and around here the skidsteer is way out of its element in the woods IME.

[zopi]

This was a funny thread...

Looks like I may have picked up a compact (and old) skid steer with a cracked head..Perkins engine..shouldn't be too hard to find one...and the price is right...this little bugger won't be moving many logs, but for cleaning up slabs and moving little whacks o lumber..cleaning up sawdust piles and about anything else around the yard..ought to be the bomb..

Spent part of yesterday moving snow with a hydraulic rotary broom on a Cat skidsteer...that'll spoil ya...nice machine...

[jwoods]

depends on how you outfit the tractor





Joe

[379hammerdown]

This is my new tractor, and it's been working out perfect so far! Logs that are just TOO big for the front end loader get picked up with the boom pole w/ tongs and skidded parallel to the mill. I then I drop it and roll it using the front end loader onto the mill's loaders. Most logs are able to be picked up using the front end loader no problem. The one on the loader is 12' long and 22" diameter top pine log. Much easier on my back too!!!

Mine is a Mahindra 4025 (The 4wd is model 4035) with skid steer front end on the loader, with a bucket and Pallet forks.

[kderby]

I am four years into owning a 6000# Wiggins rough terrain forklift.  It has done everything I have asked of it.  Recently I have been renting a neighbors skid steer.  The only advantages the skid steer has are portability (easy to trailer) and the bucket for cleaning up sawdust.

The forklift has a lifting capacity that is heavier, taller and safer.  Hopping on and off the forklift to adjust bunks is easy.  The side shift helps make a trailer load of lumber nicer and faster.  In the winter I chain up the forklift and keep going.  (I do not have to deal with bottomless mud)

Someday I will buy a skid steer or backhoe for added choices.  I also have an 8000# rough terrain forklift at a second location.  It is too much machine for what I need.  I truly love my 6000# Wiggins purchased from a rental fleet for $6,800.  If I only had one location where I worked, that forklift would be all I needed.

[ladylake]

Graple skider or....





Skid steer with graple?

  Which one would get around better in a tight woods where you didn't want to destroy all of the trees?

[woodpeckerlips]

Ladylake,
Everyone has a opinion. I'm here in Virginia, where its hilly. I have a large skid steer with forks, grapple,and bucket. My skid steer has tracks 18" wide. I can go anywhere needed. Can navagate the tightest places. Can climb steep hills with the graple full of logs. I can make quick work of all the tops and brush with the grapple. Then when done, I can grade every thing out beutifully with the bucket. I have a tractor front end loader. When loaded trying to climb hills and such, it takes the weight off the back wheels. Skid steer has low center of gravity. (I) feels safer in bad spots with my skid steer. Now if your in a much larger prodution situation. There is no substitute for a skidder, huge rubber tire crapple loader ect. My opinion, they don't make anything for a tractor that can't be put on a skid steer. It's the most versitile piece out there.  The rest are good for just 1 or2 things. Get a skidsteer,(80hp+) with hyd hook up and your ready to auger holes, plow snow, trench ditches, backhoe a hole, bush hog difficult places, harley rake your yard, post drive, ect, ect. I even have a attachment to set trusses. As long as you have the skidsteer, you can always rent the attachment you need! Like a stump grinder, the list is endless.  I use mine at my cicle mill when cutting and everywhere else when building, grading and here lately a lot of snow removal.