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Author Topic: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.  (Read 1906 times)

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Online Old Greenhorn

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Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« on: November 25, 2021, 11:12:41 AM »
SO the mill owner I am operating for broached the subject of getting an RS-2 resaw attachment for the LT50Wide. He says he gets inquiries for lap siding on a regular basis. I did some research at the WM site, on youtube, and of course found some good reading here on the forum. In that process I came across the shingle lap siding Jig that WM also offers. Having no experience with these, I read everything I could find and watched the operation videos. The processes are very different. I believe each of these had advantages and limitations and their use is dependant on one's individual working arrangement and support equipment and personnel. I'd like to put down my thoughts here so that others can share what they have found or think regarding making a choice between the two. I should be clear and state we (I anyway) do not plan an immediate purchase because the workload is high enough and the season is coming to an end (I hope). Depending on the lead time we MAY place an order mid to late winter or early spring. But I don't want to add anything until we refine our lumber storage/drying issues first.
SO here is my simple comparisons:

Resaw (RS-2) Attachment
Pros:
You can move a LOT of material through it quickly
It will do straight re-sawing for many purposes
It has a variable taper angle
It can do unlimited lengths
It works like a true resaw, holding the material down for flat even cuts
Feeding smaller thickness stock is fairly easy


Cons:
The setup time is more extensive, you need to switch over the power feed cable and set the sawhead, it's a heavier unit.
You need to saw boards that are twice the thickness for tapered siding (plus kerf), then setup and resaw them. (I see a decent learning curve here getting the sizes correct.)
You need to have infeed and outfeed table to support longer stock
You need to purchase the single belt ($5k) if you want to also do shingles (we do not.....yet)
It is absolutely a 2 man minimum operation (maybe a 3rd for stacking)
It costs roughly twice as much as the other jig (this is not a big consideration for us, we want the best solution, not the cheapest)

Lap siding/ shingling attachment
Pros:
It can do either lap or shingles without buy optional parts.
It is lighter and setup is faster (no powered components)
It is designed to mill from cants, so one cant = many boards
Price (See above comment)
Less failure points (motors, belts, etc)
It could work on just about any mill, regardless of brand (maybe we could set it up on the LX-25 when we have that running)
One man operation
If you have cants in stock, you can be producing lumber rather quickly


Cons:
Cant handling takes longer rather than feeding off a stack.
It might take a little longer to produce a lift of boards, all in (I don't know this, just doing some math in my head. Opinions?)
Unknown how the accuset will work with this, might be a good learning curve (opinions please?)
It cuts at a 2° taper only as far as I can tell.
Shingle setup requires many small cants and in the video it appears they shift a bit when cutting (clamping system?)
If you forget to flip the lever between cuts, you made scrap (Toe Board Syndrome)
Limited to 12' cant length
It is NOT a resaw
I don't know, and can't find out how close you can mill to the bed, so there has to be some waste in the bottom board, yes?

That's all that comes to mind for now. I am just asking if we can have a discussion to flesh out any details or experience that could be helpful to us or others reading along. In fact to save some time, I will mention right now that if we need a chicken to make either of these work, we already have them on site. Also there will be no time to be eating grits whilst we are making lumber. :D
I know there are several good sawyers here with experience on these, just wondering if you have anymore to share besides what I have found in your other posts. I didn't read too much about the lap siding attachment, mostly I found the RS-2 to be more popular.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2021, 11:19:58 AM »
I have a RS2 and these days it lives on the 35. I would not want to make lap siding without it. Like anything else not every board in a log will give you quality siding. 

Having the RS2 I am able to grade saw logs as normal, set aside boards that will make good siding, run them through the edger to have square edges, then drop a whack through the resaw when we have enough.

I have done a little modification work to my resaw. It has 10' worth of skate roller on the infeed and outfeed and I added a tensioner to the down pressure roller. Those made a big difference in production and quality. I do plan to add an additional hold down roller for material after it passes the saw blade and I think that will help with quality even more.
Franklin buncher and skidder
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2021, 11:27:00 AM »
Thanks SS, you are one of those 'good sawyers' I was refering to. I had read some posts regrading you use of the RS-2 and knew about the in and outfeed tables you added (which is why I mentioned it).
 Your method for creating the rough stock makes a lot of sense and also adds to our need to have in-process storage for this material. How thick and wide do you cut your rough stock?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2021, 01:36:31 PM »
Rough heading to the edger 1" x about 8", then it comes out of the edger 1x7 1/4", gives me two pieces of 3/4" tapered down to 1/8" siding. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
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Offline PC-Urban-Sawyer

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2021, 01:53:44 PM »
You might want to try making an ARKY Resaw jig as shown on this page.

Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2021, 02:48:18 PM »
Thanks SS, that's pretty much what I expected. I assume you air dry for a time before edging?

Urban Sawyer, that's a pretty neat homebrew jig but we are looking to run production and pushing each board through is going to be a bit much. Also, I have more than enough work and don't need another build project. It is helpful though to see these other ideas.          

Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2021, 03:35:36 PM »
Nope, run them green, works a lot better in the resaw that way. The stuff will dry straight and flat on stickers. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2021, 04:26:22 PM »
Thanks SS, that's also helpful and makes sense. I just talked about it some more with Bill and he is leaning hard toward the resaw attachment, said he almost bought it 5 years ago, but got busy with other stuff and is thinking about it again. He was wondering if we would need a different blade for a better finish, maybe a resaw blade with varying pitch?
 From my perspective I am using it to push my agenda for covered drying racks. ;D I am certainly not opposed to 'enhanced capabilities' but it is more work and I want to be able to handle the stock and store it properly. We do have a number of cedar logs in the pile and I am wondering what the best 'value added' process is we could use those for. I'm still a thinkin' on it, but I think he has made his mind up. I am a little struck by the concept of the boss wanting to spend money on the equipment and the employee trying to get him to hold off. :D But we have always had an odd relationship that way. I'd rather see us build those racks and get the edger moved and setup closer to the mill rather than 1/4 mile away and up the hill.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2021, 05:49:07 PM »
I saw my siding out of SYP, run Turbo 7's on the saw and they work just fine.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2021, 08:30:30 PM »
You might want to get your unit ordered sooner rather than later, there's a 3-4 month wait time for delivery on the RS-2, so I ordered mine with the assumption it would be ready by the time I actually needed it. 
2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, '80's-era Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo. Coming soon: RS-2 resaw attachment.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2021, 09:13:10 PM »
OK, that's very good to know, I was not aware it was quite that long. When is yours due to arrive?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2021, 10:40:05 PM »
Wood-mizer never quoted me a delivery time, but my operator's seat took 3 months, so I'm using that as a metric. I checked my order confirmation and the RS2 order was logged 8/13/21. 
2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, '80's-era Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo. Coming soon: RS-2 resaw attachment.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2021, 07:39:47 AM »
When setting up the resaw, have some waste boards to use as test boards. 
We sometimes make planed lap siding after first planing both sides.  Makes very uniform siding too.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2021, 08:23:34 AM »
Lasershark, if your guess is correct, you should be seeing that in the next few weeks. I am not sure if there are different lead times for CA customers vs. US customers. Not sure where they actually make those, but I am guessing the main plant and for you it has to cross the border. That could cause a delay also, but I really have no idea. I am guessing these are not a high volume sales item. Probably MTO. So ordering in January may get us one in June, but I suppose it depends on component delays.

Cedarman. I could see us doing that if we had really nice material or a specific request. It would have to be worth the setup and handling time. I have a stack of red cedar lap siding in the shop that my son had leftover from a job and most of it is ripped down in width to provide them trim strips for the finishing work. It's planed/sanded one side and looks nice. I am saving it for some little outdoor project.

 One of the very few poor business decisions my friend made was back around 10-12 years ago when he got his LT40 he went crazy making lumber, big 2x material up to 12" wide and a lot of bigger dimensional stuff 6x, 8x, and 10x up to 20'+ long and made stickered stacks all over. I lot of it was used in his shop build but he expected the rest to sell quickly and there was no demand at that time for rough cut, air dried. None of his stack were covered and it is slowly turning to mush. The hardwood is holding up but suffering also. He was much younger then and in a hurry. He is still in a hurry, but a lot smarter now. He has the new LT50...and me, so it's a bit like starting over fresh. I am trying to prevent this from happening again, so I slowly apply the brakes until we get some covered storage worked out. Site selection seems to be the first point of debate we are going around on. It's a process.

 Running a sawmill operation as we all know, is a material handling problem, not a milling problem. He has the equipment well covered, but drying/storage is the Achilles heel at the moment. After that, we will need to add on some help and train up another sawyer. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline customsawyer

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2021, 08:28:23 AM »
I have a resaw attachment that I used to use on my LT70. I used it for resawing reclaimed lumber and it did fine. I never tried to make lap siding with it. I never thought it was that difficult to set up. The initial set up is the most difficult. After that you have plugins to go from sawing to resawing. I do make lap siding with my dedicated resaw now. I cut the boards at 1 1/8x8 this gives me ¼x¾ edges. I can do them green or dried. Most of my customers ask for it dried. I do not use my resaw anymore and don't know what all machines it will hook up to. My mill is a 2006 so use that for a reference but if anyone is interested in it let me know. If sold to anyone from this forum 5% will go to the forum.   
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2021, 08:40:04 AM »
AH, if you were closer, we might be talking on it, but that shipping is gonna cost. I figure that unit must weigh at around 500# or so?

 When I compared the setup times, I was thinking of the electrical changeover and the weight. That RS-2 has got to need a machine to mount it up, whereas I think the other attachment could be hefted on by 2 guys and with that one, the mill runs as normal. This is all speculation on my part, of course.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2021, 10:52:57 AM »
OG:
The following is based on my experience using an SLR to make shingles or shakes (I've heard them called both).  I've never attempted tapered siding with my SLR.
I made mine 5/32" at the thin end and 17/32" at the thick end.
I cut my blocks, using a chainsaw roughly 22-1/4" long.  Then I cleaned up the ends with my radial arm saw and sawed them to 22".
With accuset II you need to use 2 points.  I set one at 5/32" and the other at 17/32".  When you are sawing you need to alternate from one point to the other before raising the head after finishing a cut.
The bottom pieces (parts of the blocks or cants that can't be used to make shingles because of the clamping system and the SLR frame) are somewhere between 2 and 2-1/2".  To me that is a lot of loss.
Concerning your comment about 2°.  There are 6 small cams, one for each block or cant to be sawed for shingles, these small cams can be adjusted to get different angle tapers.  I played with mine using just one block or cant until I got what I liked and then adjusted all of them to that setting.  To get the cams all the same I ran a board through the planner until it was the right thickness and used it to set the other five.  It was a fell thing but it worked for me.
Hope I haven't bored you,
GAB

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2021, 11:19:05 AM »
WHOOPS! I posted the wrong reply to this post rather than the correct one. Fixing it now, sorry for anybody that read the provious dis-jointed reply about debarkers before I could edit this:
---------------------------
 No GAB, not boring at all, knowledge is power after all. As I said about we have little interest in shingle at this time (maybe down the road) but your explanation of how the attachment works was extremely useful to me. You've clearly confirmed what I had been guessing at. However, I did not understand this sentence in your reply "With accuset II you need to use 2 points.  I set one at 5/32" and the other at 17/32".  When you are sawing you need to alternate from one point to the other before raising the head after finishing a cut."
  Where are those 2 points measured from? You say 'alternate the points BEFORE raising the head' so I am guessing you mean flipping the handle on the attachment? If so, then that makes sense. If not, I need a little more 'splaining please. ;D
 Also your info on the scrap part is also enlightening (you are a fountain of knowledge). Now if you are making lap siding you could recut that bottom piece into a 2x8 of whatever, but with shingles I see a lot of 2x7x24" blocking pretty useless on a production level. So yeah, this is good info for the considering buyer. That RS-2 is looking better all the time.
 BTW, in the context of your reply, what does "SLR" stand for? Single Lens reflex? Straight line Rip? Sexy little resaw? Super long ratio? Some Lazy Reprobate? :D



Readers can ignore all below here, it was a dumb mistake but I leave it as confessional evidence.


Howard, glad you figured it out. Surprised the breaker didn't pop when the blade bound up. These WM debarkers have so many versions and revisions just for the LT50 alone that I can't keep them all straight. The one on your mill I think is very different than on the mill I run and I don't recall any set screws of which you speak. I will take a look next time though but I think I am running a very different animal. This is a 2017 and I believe there were 2 separate major revision upgrades since this was first built. Plus, it's a wide version.
Sure good to know though and good to pass along. These little things can drive a man to drink if your head isn't in the right place when they happen or if you don't look in exactly the right place at the right angle or misinterpret what you think you are seeing. If you are on a job and the sun is heading toward the horizon, and you want to get back on the road for your 2 hour drive home, and you still have 5 logs to go, things can get even worse. SO I am told anyway. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2021, 05:48:22 PM »
I have one of the older resaws. 6" x12"  I can load it and have it running in 15 mins. A quick plug swap. I use it quite often now. I load it withmy fork lift. I get customers calling me at least once a month to resaw something. 
It can turn out an amazing amount of lumber from 2" material. I find trying to resaw big cants larger than 2" means I have to lift them. 
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2021, 07:47:17 PM »
No GAB, not boring at all, knowledge is power after all. As I said about we have little interest in shingle at this time (maybe down the road) but your explanation of how the attachment works was extremely useful to me. You've clearly confirmed what I had been guessing at. However, I did not understand this sentence in your reply "With accuset II you need to use 2 points.  I set one at 5/32" and the other at 17/32".  When you are sawing you need to alternate from one point to the other before raising the head after finishing a cut."
 Where are those 2 points measured from? You say 'alternate the points BEFORE raising the head' so I am guessing you mean flipping the handle on the attachment? If so, then that makes sense. If not, I need a little more 'splaining please. ;D
 Also your info on the scrap part is also enlightening (you are a fountain of knowledge). Now if you are making lap siding you could recut that bottom piece into a 2x8 of whatever, but with shingles I see a lot of 2x7x24" blocking pretty useless on a production level. So yeah, this is good info for the considering buyer. That RS-2 is looking better all the time.
 BTW, in the context of your reply, what does "SLR" stand for? Single Lens reflex? Straight line Rip? Sexy little resaw? Super long ratio? Some Lazy Reprobate? :D

Readers can ignore all below here, it was a dumb mistake but I leave it as confessional evidence.
OG:
This is an attempt to answer your questions and additional comments;
When I said two points I meant two of the 16 accuset II set points.
I mounted my blocks or cants in the SLR and then took a very thin cut on the tallest one.  That becomes the top most point.  From this point you need to drop either of the two point or settings depending on where the handle on the SLR is.
You must alternate between the two settings to make shingles.  
The maximum length of the block or cant to be sawn is less than 24" because it needs some clearance to be able to move up and down as you move the SLR handle.  I know 22-1/4" works but 24" is too long.
So as you are sawing the up to six blocks change from the set point you are at, get to the end, bring the head back, flip the handle, hit the down lever to the next point, start sawing again and as you are sawing to the end change the set point, finish sawing that level, raise head return to start point, flip SLR lever, start sawing again ....  From there it is repeat, repaet, repeat.  If you mess up you will have thin boards of one of the two point settings.  OH CRAP!
You wrote "Also your info on the scrap part is also enlightening (you are a fountain of knowledge). Now if you are making lap siding you could recut that bottom piece into a 2x8 of whatever, but with shingles I see a lot of 2x7x24" blocking pretty useless on a production level. So yeah, this is good info for the considering buyer. That RS-2 is looking better all the time."
Yes you can end up with a 2"x8" but you will need to saw it out after you remoce the SLR unless you have a second mill to saw it on.
I made my shingle blocks as large as I could and still fit in the SLR.  Yes I still have some left over blocks and its probably been 10 years since I sawed shingles.  They are being used under trailer jacks, under the sawmill wheels to level the mill and other things.
SLR is the term used by WM.  I do not remember what it stood for.
OG wrote; "Readers can ignore all below here, it was a dumb mistake but I leave it as confessional evidence."
I am in no way a member of the cloth, but I suggest 2 Our Fathers and 4 Hail Marys and call it atonement if you still fell guilty double it.
GAB

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2021, 07:57:34 PM »
Thank you Fadder but right Pew, Wrong Church. I am Lutheran and we feel guilty all the time. ;D

Yeah, now everything you said makes sense now. I forgot about the presets in the accuset. I have never used them. I'd have to go back to the book on that to even find them. :D  Thanks for all the good dope.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2021, 08:16:25 PM »
You can come over to Monticello and borrow my lapsider if you want to try it.
Yes you have to use two set points so each cut you have to remember to hit the button to the other setting. And remember to throw the lever.
I only have had time to use it once. It took me a while to figure the right blade drops but it is simple and works well.
I forget the dimension of the uncut cant, I just cut it to a board. 
Two guy can put it on the mill. It only takes a minute.

 
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2021, 08:52:11 PM »
Rich, that is a very generous offer and regardless of whether I can take you up on it or not, I truly appreciate your offer of your time. Right now, as I said in the OP we are not doing an immediate purchase or decision. I don't want to do anything new until we have covered drying racks and storage.
 I think we are leaning toward that RS-2 when we do pull the trigger. The time spent jogging back, dropping into the cut, flipping the lever seems to me like time not having the blade in the cut. Yes, you can run it with one guy on the version you have, but the idea of getting it set once and just running material through non-stop is appealing as more efficient. Knowing the way our workflow and orders go, the orders will be a while between, but when they come, it will be many thousands of linear feet and the RS-2 will run them much faster.

 This thread was started so I could learn from the guys who know and it sure has done that. Hopefully some others will benefit also. WM is not open tomorrow, I should have called today just to check leadtime, but I will call them Monday to get a feel. It's a 7 hour round trip for us, maybe less if I leave at 4am. ;D AT any rate, I am digging in my heels until we have covered storage. I (we) need organized working space and room to handle this stuff. It's the one weak point, everything else is there to move a lot of wood products.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2021, 09:39:56 PM »
If you want to sell any volume of siding, the blanks really have to go through your edger, otherwise you will get customer complaints as that little dive in the cant really shows up when it's hung on a hosue.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2021, 08:32:22 AM »
OG:         
You wrote in reply #20; "I forgot about the presets in the accuset. I have never used them."
In some of your entries you talk about efficiency and then you say you have never used accuset, wow. 
You need to set the blade thickness to 1/8" and then set some of the 16 accuset points to frequently used lumber thicknesses, and do yourself a favor and make auto-up, auto-down and pattern the same for all three modes.
For example on my machine point 1 is 1" for all three modes and since the blade thickness is set at 1/8" when I pull the lever down the blade drops to 1-1/8" lower than the last cut.
Caution: if you set the bottom most entry for all 16 accuset points at less than 1" you are cruising for a blade scrapping episode.
Enjoy.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2021, 08:45:54 AM »
Complete mis-understanding here GAB, let me correct that. I use the accuset all the time for normal milling thicknesses, saw down, saw to cant, saw to bed or whatever on every log, It's a blessing and it's fast. I had thought you were referring to the fixed point settings that are buried somewhere in there, which I have never used. If I remember the manual, I believe you can put these at any height you want. I thought that's what you were talking about.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2021, 09:25:23 AM »
OG:
You are right when you said complete mis-understanding.
GAB
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2021, 12:58:12 PM »
It's really simple, here's the wordy explanation from the manual, but really, its just a matter of pushing the cancel/reference button to enter the presets.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2021, 04:59:08 PM »
Yup, got it now, all good. I like that accuset, but I am about due to adventure into it a little more to improve my skills. It just take time and I don't like to add a new level of knowledge until I have internalized those I already use. I still don't see a lot of use for those preset points, but someday there may be a need. I am just not there yet.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2021, 05:17:15 PM »
OG, I always try to push people to try that Arky jig. It costs nothing to put together and works so well that I just shake my head when I see people fighting cants and messing around with the WM lapsider jig. I used one of those once and found it painfully tedious. The thing with the Arky jig or the RS-2 is you can dry your boards and even 2 side them in a planer, then resaw them with the bevel. The Lapsider jig you'll pretty much be selling green siding. I did all of the bevel siding on our house with an Arky jig, it doesn't take very long for two people to go through a lot of linear feet with it. There would likely be 2 of you running a RS-2 as well, and I doubt the production would be any higher. Try it, if it works great and the market is there for a lot of product, buy the RS-2.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2021, 05:45:33 PM »
Well, just a short update my buddy/boss ordered the RS-2 today. He was given a 10-14 week delivery date. That puts it around the beginning of March. Stay tuned. ;D
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2021, 08:56:33 PM »
You could be set up and running an Arky Jig by lunch tomorrow🤷‍♂️
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2021, 09:17:29 PM »
As I said earlier, the arky jig is a nice design and will work well I think, but for ongoing production work, it doesn't fit our needs. I am not going to push every board through. I want (need) that power feed to grab the board and run it through while I am grabbing the next board. Getting going soon is the last thing I want. ;D I am digging my heels in and don't want to run any of this material until we have covered drying areas. The boss is coming around to my way of thinking on this and we had a conversation about how to make that happen just this evening. We'll do some plannig over the winter and get some holes in the ground as soon as we can in March. Just another task on the list.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2021, 10:40:25 PM »
Well the boss went ahead and ordered the RS2 a coupe of days ago much to my chagrin. Bu they said delivery would likely be in March. Well tonight we all had dinner together an he tells me he got a call back form WM and they have one in stock he can pick up anytime he is ready. Oy. I got enough to do already.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2021, 09:18:57 AM »
If presented with too much work, just ask him to prioritize. You want this done first, or this? 

I solved the tapered siding problem by not making tapered siding, I make a style that was used on the New World Dutch barns. You just use regular boards and kick the bottom board out with a starter strip. 

This example was 3/4"x8" boards.



 

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2021, 12:25:53 PM »
If presented with too much work, just ask him to prioritize. You want this done first, or this?

I solved the tapered siding problem by not making tapered siding, I make a style that was used on the New World Dutch barns. You just use regular boards and kick the bottom board out with a starter strip.

This example was 3/4"x8" boards.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I like that style as it is very common on old houses and out buildings in my area.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2021, 01:06:44 PM »
My house has exactly the same.  Boards were all 7/8” thick, no bevel, had a starter strip.  If I had to do it all over again, I would go with the starter strip with even thickness boards, no bevel.  

Done the same on my barn.  Here is DanG with Miss Scarlett. 



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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2021, 07:27:29 AM »
I'm not a big fan of the tapered boards but hate telling customers no. So when someone asks for something special I just put a price on it. A buddy once told me that you take the first letter of special S and draw a vertical line through it $.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2021, 08:59:30 AM »
I still don't see a lot of use for those preset points, but someday there may be a need. I am just not there yet.

I really like the preset points on Accuset II.  If you frequently saw 3 5/8 or 1 5/8 to get dimensional lumber, put those presets for dimensional lumber under, say number 2.  If you saw a lot of full cut lumber, put those measurements under number 3.  For live edged slabs and other frequently used thicknesses, like 2 3/8 or 3/4", those are under number 1.  I save number four for wider boards and have one stored at 16" under number four so that as I'm sawing the last board of a cant I can hit that preset, toggle up at the end of the cut. With the battery under the hydraulic box which will power the hydraulics even if the head is off of the power strip,enables unclamping and the ability to roll the last two boards back without going through the sawhead and the mill is at a good height to begin on the next log.  Sorry for a lengthy explanation of a simple process.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2021, 09:10:08 AM »
Nice suggestions on the full sized board options. I am a fan of this also because the boards are more robust and will likely last longer with poor maintenance.
 
 But to makes things clear, we are not adding this just so that we can make the siding for a project and the 'more work for me' I referred to was not the actual sawing of boards. What I was talking about was that we can't start making this material until we have the drying and storage figured out and ready to go. So this new workload backs up to milling all the lumber for construction of drying sheds, leveling up the ground, figuring out pads/posts/or skids and making all that happen and building the shed itself. Then some minor handling procedures and gear and possibly widening a section of road or two for access with full width lumber packs or stickered stacks. Figuring out the process of making the boards is (or should be) easy and we are all good at that. (Besides, I have all you guys backing me up. :))

 Yes, we will likely use some of these around the complex here and there, but this is a marketable product intended to satisfy the steady requests he gets for this material from customers. Bill is a business man and pretty good at it. Up until now he has been turning down lumber orders except for a very few special friends because he did not have time to make them himself. Now that he has 'roped me in' and has a sawyer he can toss orders to and know they will get done eventually he is looking to 'keep me busy' as he says. Lap siding brings 3-4 times the price of a regular board. He is also smart enough to keep me happy with a new do-dad from time to time, and spare parts I ask for, or anything else. It just takes time and I am just part-time, having my own work and clients to take care of. I am also limited in my physical ability to run that mill for hours and days straight. So the search for a part-time tailgunner is always present. When I have a helper I know my output is about 3-4 times what I do alone, mostly because I can work longer hours and push myself to make sure the helper gets a full days pay out of it.

While we are talking about this stuff, how do you folks figure out board footage on lap siding because it is no longer t x w x l /144 formula given that it is not rectangular? Does everyone just go to linear foot pricing? Still how does that relate to board footage which is how all costing is figured? Maybe that's another thread? Anybody have a typical price for their tapered siding in EWP or whatever is your common wood?

 Caveman, yes, I have used that same trick once or twice, it does save time jogging up and down to hit the mark and I continue to get batter at it. Where i need work is changing those set points, I just have not yet taken the time to get competent at it. We do all even sizes, so far, so I stick with that. Slabs are rare and usually one or two off, so I use a pencil if needed for calcs and double check everything as I go.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2021, 09:57:02 AM »
The usual convention is that if the boards are less than 1”, they get charged as 1”.  Using that convention, the siding is less than 1” even if not square, so if it were me, I would figure the surface area of the board divided by 1 to figure the “board feet”.  If all lengths and widths are the same, pricing by the piece or the linear foot may be more understandable to the customer.  

In any event, it is your call on how to figure it and on what to charge.  

As I have gained wisdom, customers that call me and want me to do something for them that requires me to use my equipment that I have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into, and if all they are worried about is how cheap I will do it for, I tell them, “Sorry, I don’t do that for people.”   



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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2021, 10:37:18 AM »
Well Danny, that strikes me as your usual good wisdom. I think we'd use linear foot pricing for the customer no doubt and I am fairly certain that is how we will go. However, any questions about that had more to do with internal costing analysis. Since we have to figure the cost of the inputs (logs, equipment, time) and then the value of the output material everything is figured by the output product by board footage (for us anyway, we are simple people). If you think about it when you make lap siding every time your run a board through the machine you double your money PLUS the added value of a 'shaped product'. Just splitting the board gives you two boards (twice the product), then you add cost for the value of that tapered board verses flat sawn.

 Normally I think we charge about $1.50/BF for 4/4 boards. so a 1x7x10' (just to keep the math simple) is $5.83. Now I take that same board and make lap siding and wind up with 2 pieces 10" long and with your formula that would be $11.66 for the same volume of wood (before you add the value/cost of making it into lap siding). If we figured $3.00/linear foot of lap siding (again, simple numbers) that comes out to $60.00 for those 20 linear feet from that single 4/4 board we started with. That strikes me as a lot for what the buyer gets in air dried product. SO I am trying to get a handle on where to draw the line. I guess I would have to sit down and figure out the effective coverage on a 10' x 20' wall and then work out the user costs to cover that wall and see if it makes sense. (BTW, how much reveal do you figure on a 7" wide board?)

 We need to get paid a fair price to make it worthwhile and pay for the equipment and labor, BUT we don't want to price it so high nobody buys it. I am just trying to figure that part of it out while the weather is colder. My son did a repair job early in 2020 (before the market blew up) and he had to buy a good quantity of white cedar lap siding. The price then was so high that the fella working the yard told my son "Hang on, that can't be right, let me check with the office before I put it on the ticket". I don't remember the price but it was crazy high. Obviously we aren't looking for those kinds of numbers (although we do have a pile of ERC logs) and we are not kiln drying the stuff, but there is a comparison at some level.

 I'm just an old guy trying to learn new stuff.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2021, 09:04:09 PM »
I've made bevel siding several ways.  Most of the time it is one of these two.



I prefer the one on the right with the step rabbet.  I think easier to install, especially single handed.  I also think its adds a lot of shear strength to a shed type building with only bevel siding.  Doubt it makes much difference on a house with osb.  I also think it stays together better if it cracks.

Most people seem to prefer it, even though it costs more.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2021, 03:15:12 AM »
The one on the right, that's the dolly varden style, very sophisticated. 

I'm also interested in wavy edge siding, seem that there's two ways to do it, single edge and double edge.

1) double edge - you want smallish logs, very regular and going for 4" or 6" boards, installed vertically.
2) Single edge - you want larger logs capable of producing a 3-sided cant up to 12", cut at 3/4"  installed horizontally. 



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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2021, 08:16:02 AM »
I must have a mental block but I am not understanding how wavy edged siding installed vertically would look. I don't believe I have ever seen such a thing. Do you have a photo?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2021, 09:44:17 AM »
Have seen it done "board and board" style

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2021, 02:55:29 AM »
I must have a mental block but I am not understanding how wavy edged siding installed vertically would look. I don't believe I have ever seen such a thing. Do you have a photo?
Mudafarmer is correct. It's actually hard to find such a photo and I can't recall where I learned that (probably this forum). Here's the best I can do:


 
2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, '80's-era Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo. Coming soon: RS-2 resaw attachment.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2022, 08:42:07 AM »
Well I am going to bring this back to life for a bit to ask another question about this RS2. Does anybody know what this weighs? We were talking about it last night and the storage issue as well and loading and unloading it on the mill. The idea came up to hang it directly over the mill bed. When not in use, you drop down a couple of hooks and use a pulley system to lift it up to the rafters then just tie it off.
 In our setup, this should put it plenty high above the mill but I am concerned about the weight load on the trusses. I have looked all over and cannot find the weight on this unit. It is not listed in the manual.  In fact, I don't see any overall sizes listed either now that I think about it. We are not sure which truck to bring when we pick it up.

 So anyone know the weight and length?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2022, 09:57:33 AM »
I am going to say 300 ish lbs. I can toss it around, but it's not easy to do. Of course @wdh has a theory as to that.  :D. Length is just a tad bit more than the loader arms as I use those to hoist it onto the mill. 
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2022, 10:04:47 AM »
I know it is easy to spend others money; but the WM dedicated HR resaw paid me back about as quickly as any machine I ever bought. Amazing capacity for short money.



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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2022, 10:06:45 AM »
I am going to say 300 ish lbs. I can toss it around, but it's not easy to do. Of course @wdh has a theory as to that.  :D.
It helps when your arms are longer than your legs ;D.
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2022, 12:06:13 PM »
Thanks SS. I have to think about how I feel having that hang over my head about 12' up. ;D It sounds like we should be able to fetch this home with a 6' pickup bed with the tailgate down I suppose. If we took a bigger truck, I am afraid Bill might fill it with with other stuff he finds at WM. :D We'll pick a slow work period or lousy weather day and run up to fetch it. It's a 7 hour round trip for us.

Stavebuyer the dedicated re-saws I do not believe will make tapered siding and that is our intent here. Should this develop further, it might turn into something different. Right now there are a lot of requests for tapered siding and this drove the decision. We have a long way to go yet in setting up the facilities with limited labor hours available, so it's baby steps.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2022, 02:37:23 PM »
Thanks SS. I have to think about how I feel having that hang over my head about 12' up. ;D It sounds like we should be able to fetch this home with a 6' pickup bed with the tailgate down I suppose. If we took a bigger truck, I am afraid Bill might fill it with with other stuff he finds at WM. :D We'll pick a slow work period or lousy weather day and run up to fetch it. It's a 7 hour round trip for us.

Stavebuyer the dedicated re-saws I do not believe will make tapered siding and that is our intent here. Should this develop further, it might turn into something different. Right now there are a lot of requests for tapered siding and this drove the decision. We have a long way to go yet in setting up the facilities with limited labor hours available, so it's baby steps.
Kind of a moot point for you guys since you already made a purchase; but for others benefit the WM HR series stand-alone Resaws will tilt to make tapered siding and the 16" capacity between guides makes it possible to do things like reclaim boards from slabs that most compact resaws can't.


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