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Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.

Started by Old Greenhorn, November 25, 2021, 11:12:41 AM

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Old Greenhorn

Complete mis-understanding here GAB, let me correct that. I use the accuset all the time for normal milling thicknesses, saw down, saw to cant, saw to bed or whatever on every log, It's a blessing and it's fast. I had thought you were referring to the fixed point settings that are buried somewhere in there, which I have never used. If I remember the manual, I believe you can put these at any height you want. I thought that's what you were talking about.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

GAB

OG:
You are right when you said complete mis-understanding.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Lasershark

It's really simple, here's the wordy explanation from the manual, but really, its just a matter of pushing the cancel/reference button to enter the presets.

2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo.  RS-2 resaw attachment.

Old Greenhorn

Yup, got it now, all good. I like that accuset, but I am about due to adventure into it a little more to improve my skills. It just take time and I don't like to add a new level of knowledge until I have internalized those I already use. I still don't see a lot of use for those preset points, but someday there may be a need. I am just not there yet.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

barbender

OG, I always try to push people to try that Arky jig. It costs nothing to put together and works so well that I just shake my head when I see people fighting cants and messing around with the WM lapsider jig. I used one of those once and found it painfully tedious. The thing with the Arky jig or the RS-2 is you can dry your boards and even 2 side them in a planer, then resaw them with the bevel. The Lapsider jig you'll pretty much be selling green siding. I did all of the bevel siding on our house with an Arky jig, it doesn't take very long for two people to go through a lot of linear feet with it. There would likely be 2 of you running a RS-2 as well, and I doubt the production would be any higher. Try it, if it works great and the market is there for a lot of product, buy the RS-2.
Too many irons in the fire

Old Greenhorn

Well, just a short update my buddy/boss ordered the RS-2 today. He was given a 10-14 week delivery date. That puts it around the beginning of March. Stay tuned. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

barbender

You could be set up and running an Arky Jig by lunch tomorrow🤷‍♂️
Too many irons in the fire

Old Greenhorn

As I said earlier, the arky jig is a nice design and will work well I think, but for ongoing production work, it doesn't fit our needs. I am not going to push every board through. I want (need) that power feed to grab the board and run it through while I am grabbing the next board. Getting going soon is the last thing I want. ;D I am digging my heels in and don't want to run any of this material until we have covered drying areas. The boss is coming around to my way of thinking on this and we had a conversation about how to make that happen just this evening. We'll do some plannig over the winter and get some holes in the ground as soon as we can in March. Just another task on the list.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

Well the boss went ahead and ordered the RS2 a coupe of days ago much to my chagrin. Bu they said delivery would likely be in March. Well tonight we all had dinner together an he tells me he got a call back form WM and they have one in stock he can pick up anytime he is ready. Oy. I got enough to do already.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Dave Shepard

If presented with too much work, just ask him to prioritize. You want this done first, or this? 

I solved the tapered siding problem by not making tapered siding, I make a style that was used on the New World Dutch barns. You just use regular boards and kick the bottom board out with a starter strip. 

This example was 3/4"x8" boards.



 

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

KenMac

Quote from: Dave Shepard on December 11, 2021, 09:18:57 AM
If presented with too much work, just ask him to prioritize. You want this done first, or this?

I solved the tapered siding problem by not making tapered siding, I make a style that was used on the New World Dutch barns. You just use regular boards and kick the bottom board out with a starter strip.

This example was 3/4"x8" boards.




I like that style as it is very common on old houses and out buildings in my area.
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

WDH

My house has exactly the same.  Boards were all 7/8" thick, no bevel, had a starter strip.  If I had to do it all over again, I would go with the starter strip with even thickness boards, no bevel.  

Done the same on my barn.  Here is DanG with Miss Scarlett. 



Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

customsawyer

I'm not a big fan of the tapered boards but hate telling customers no. So when someone asks for something special I just put a price on it. A buddy once told me that you take the first letter of special S and draw a vertical line through it $.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

caveman

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on November 27, 2021, 04:59:08 PMI still don't see a lot of use for those preset points, but someday there may be a need. I am just not there yet.

I really like the preset points on Accuset II.  If you frequently saw 3 5/8 or 1 5/8 to get dimensional lumber, put those presets for dimensional lumber under, say number 2.  If you saw a lot of full cut lumber, put those measurements under number 3.  For live edged slabs and other frequently used thicknesses, like 2 3/8 or 3/4", those are under number 1.  I save number four for wider boards and have one stored at 16" under number four so that as I'm sawing the last board of a cant I can hit that preset, toggle up at the end of the cut. With the battery under the hydraulic box which will power the hydraulics even if the head is off of the power strip,enables unclamping and the ability to roll the last two boards back without going through the sawhead and the mill is at a good height to begin on the next log.  Sorry for a lengthy explanation of a simple process.
Caveman

Old Greenhorn

Nice suggestions on the full sized board options. I am a fan of this also because the boards are more robust and will likely last longer with poor maintenance.
 
 But to makes things clear, we are not adding this just so that we can make the siding for a project and the 'more work for me' I referred to was not the actual sawing of boards. What I was talking about was that we can't start making this material until we have the drying and storage figured out and ready to go. So this new workload backs up to milling all the lumber for construction of drying sheds, leveling up the ground, figuring out pads/posts/or skids and making all that happen and building the shed itself. Then some minor handling procedures and gear and possibly widening a section of road or two for access with full width lumber packs or stickered stacks. Figuring out the process of making the boards is (or should be) easy and we are all good at that. (Besides, I have all you guys backing me up. :))

 Yes, we will likely use some of these around the complex here and there, but this is a marketable product intended to satisfy the steady requests he gets for this material from customers. Bill is a business man and pretty good at it. Up until now he has been turning down lumber orders except for a very few special friends because he did not have time to make them himself. Now that he has 'roped me in' and has a sawyer he can toss orders to and know they will get done eventually he is looking to 'keep me busy' as he says. Lap siding brings 3-4 times the price of a regular board. He is also smart enough to keep me happy with a new do-dad from time to time, and spare parts I ask for, or anything else. It just takes time and I am just part-time, having my own work and clients to take care of. I am also limited in my physical ability to run that mill for hours and days straight. So the search for a part-time tailgunner is always present. When I have a helper I know my output is about 3-4 times what I do alone, mostly because I can work longer hours and push myself to make sure the helper gets a full days pay out of it.

While we are talking about this stuff, how do you folks figure out board footage on lap siding because it is no longer t x w x l /144 formula given that it is not rectangular? Does everyone just go to linear foot pricing? Still how does that relate to board footage which is how all costing is figured? Maybe that's another thread? Anybody have a typical price for their tapered siding in EWP or whatever is your common wood?

 Caveman, yes, I have used that same trick once or twice, it does save time jogging up and down to hit the mark and I continue to get batter at it. Where i need work is changing those set points, I just have not yet taken the time to get competent at it. We do all even sizes, so far, so I stick with that. Slabs are rare and usually one or two off, so I use a pencil if needed for calcs and double check everything as I go.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WDH

The usual convention is that if the boards are less than 1", they get charged as 1".  Using that convention, the siding is less than 1" even if not square, so if it were me, I would figure the surface area of the board divided by 1 to figure the "board feet".  If all lengths and widths are the same, pricing by the piece or the linear foot may be more understandable to the customer.  

In any event, it is your call on how to figure it and on what to charge.  

As I have gained wisdom, customers that call me and want me to do something for them that requires me to use my equipment that I have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into, and if all they are worried about is how cheap I will do it for, I tell them, "Sorry, I don't do that for people."   



Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Old Greenhorn

Well Danny, that strikes me as your usual good wisdom. I think we'd use linear foot pricing for the customer no doubt and I am fairly certain that is how we will go. However, any questions about that had more to do with internal costing analysis. Since we have to figure the cost of the inputs (logs, equipment, time) and then the value of the output material everything is figured by the output product by board footage (for us anyway, we are simple people). If you think about it when you make lap siding every time your run a board through the machine you double your money PLUS the added value of a 'shaped product'. Just splitting the board gives you two boards (twice the product), then you add cost for the value of that tapered board verses flat sawn.

 Normally I think we charge about $1.50/BF for 4/4 boards. so a 1x7x10' (just to keep the math simple) is $5.83. Now I take that same board and make lap siding and wind up with 2 pieces 10" long and with your formula that would be $11.66 for the same volume of wood (before you add the value/cost of making it into lap siding). If we figured $3.00/linear foot of lap siding (again, simple numbers) that comes out to $60.00 for those 20 linear feet from that single 4/4 board we started with. That strikes me as a lot for what the buyer gets in air dried product. SO I am trying to get a handle on where to draw the line. I guess I would have to sit down and figure out the effective coverage on a 10' x 20' wall and then work out the user costs to cover that wall and see if it makes sense. (BTW, how much reveal do you figure on a 7" wide board?)

 We need to get paid a fair price to make it worthwhile and pay for the equipment and labor, BUT we don't want to price it so high nobody buys it. I am just trying to figure that part of it out while the weather is colder. My son did a repair job early in 2020 (before the market blew up) and he had to buy a good quantity of white cedar lap siding. The price then was so high that the fella working the yard told my son "Hang on, that can't be right, let me check with the office before I put it on the ticket". I don't remember the price but it was crazy high. Obviously we aren't looking for those kinds of numbers (although we do have a pile of ERC logs) and we are not kiln drying the stuff, but there is a comparison at some level.

 I'm just an old guy trying to learn new stuff.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Larry

I've made bevel siding several ways.  Most of the time it is one of these two.



I prefer the one on the right with the step rabbet.  I think easier to install, especially single handed.  I also think its adds a lot of shear strength to a shed type building with only bevel siding.  Doubt it makes much difference on a house with osb.  I also think it stays together better if it cracks.

Most people seem to prefer it, even though it costs more.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Lasershark

The one on the right, that's the dolly varden style, very sophisticated. 

I'm also interested in wavy edge siding, seem that there's two ways to do it, single edge and double edge.

1) double edge - you want smallish logs, very regular and going for 4" or 6" boards, installed vertically.
2) Single edge - you want larger logs capable of producing a 3-sided cant up to 12", cut at 3/4"  installed horizontally. 



2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo.  RS-2 resaw attachment.

Old Greenhorn

I must have a mental block but I am not understanding how wavy edged siding installed vertically would look. I don't believe I have ever seen such a thing. Do you have a photo?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

mudfarmer


Lasershark

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on December 14, 2021, 08:16:02 AM
I must have a mental block but I am not understanding how wavy edged siding installed vertically would look. I don't believe I have ever seen such a thing. Do you have a photo?
Mudafarmer is correct. It's actually hard to find such a photo and I can't recall where I learned that (probably this forum). Here's the best I can do:


 
2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo.  RS-2 resaw attachment.

Old Greenhorn

Well I am going to bring this back to life for a bit to ask another question about this RS2. Does anybody know what this weighs? We were talking about it last night and the storage issue as well and loading and unloading it on the mill. The idea came up to hang it directly over the mill bed. When not in use, you drop down a couple of hooks and use a pulley system to lift it up to the rafters then just tie it off.
 In our setup, this should put it plenty high above the mill but I am concerned about the weight load on the trusses. I have looked all over and cannot find the weight on this unit. It is not listed in the manual.  In fact, I don't see any overall sizes listed either now that I think about it. We are not sure which truck to bring when we pick it up.

 So anyone know the weight and length?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Southside

I am going to say 300 ish lbs. I can toss it around, but it's not easy to do. Of course @wdh has a theory as to that.  :D. Length is just a tad bit more than the loader arms as I use those to hoist it onto the mill. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

stavebuyer

I know it is easy to spend others money; but the WM dedicated HR resaw paid me back about as quickly as any machine I ever bought. Amazing capacity for short money.



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