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Author Topic: Opinion on damaged white oak.  (Read 3461 times)

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Offline ohiowoodchuck

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2022, 09:23:57 PM »
It was installed in the 50ís and there rebuilding it as we speak. I signed a new agreement and got paid very well. Thereís no access in the easement from the road to the transmission line just thru the property. I kept them from using my driveway and personal bridge to my house by letting them go in on the end of my property. They have a check for me already for the ground the cleared putting in the access road. I held out for as long as I could but I donít have the money to fight a large corporation with a net profit of 54 billion a year. 
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Offline TN King

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2022, 10:16:17 PM »
Getting paid very well is a good thing.
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2022, 10:23:32 PM »
Thanks Doc, any idea on the grade of the logs.
In the two trees shown in the two videos, there appears to be no clear faces. Grade stoppers in every face, best I can tell from your video.
A veneer log or No.1 sawlog, three clear faces usually needed. Two clear faces likely at best No. 2 sawlog, and one clear face at best a No. 3 log which is close to a cull log which has no clear faces. Used to be, back in my day that a No. 3 log didn't pay its way through the mill. That is if the mill is sawing for grade and grading is by the NHLA grading rules.
The market may be different now, and unfortunately we don't have the eye and experience of Danny (aka WDH). Might get some tie logs cut from these two trees, and might get some takers from the pallet log buyers.
Maybe stavebuyer has a keener eye for the stave bolts in these two trees. I don't see it, and again back in the day, stave buyers would cut the trees, knock a few of the best looking blocks and then split them to see the grain direction. Most often the split blocks would be left on the ground to rot. That was what I found on my property after Hiram, Walker, & sons went through the white oak sold by the previous owner. I ended up with a lot of down white oak trees in the 25-35" dbh with maybe 10% of the wood taken for staves.

Demand a good payment, and call their bluff. Maybe they will pay rather than fight the claim. But the loss in aesthetics likely will be your best bet, not what the sale value of either tree is based on the log grade. Wish you well. Sorry about the trees.

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https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/PB1772.pdf

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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2022, 09:20:50 AM »
I'm not seeing any quality in those trees.  Things are very regional, so what applies in my area may not apply in yours.  That patchy bark tells me there is a good chance of glass worm, which negates all veneer value.  I'm also seeing cat faces which lowers the value of any logs.  At best, I would make them a #2, but that even seems to be pushing it.  The lower log would probably yield a decent 8' log, but I'm still seeing tie material. 

As for aesthetic value, when you get into a wooded situation, that value drops by 90% when you get it away from a homesite.  I've used the aesthetic approach in court, and there is a way of doing it.  It goes by the square inch value, and is adjusted accordingly by the setting.  A single tree in a woodlot would be a tough sell in court.  I've only used it in an urban situation.

The damage on tree #2 is small, and won't appreciably effect the timber value in the future.  It will heal over and leave a slight scar which will come off during the slabbing of the log.  The damage on #1 is pretty sizeable and will probably cause rot problems in the future.  But, it is low enough on the tree to not effect the current value of the tree. 

If I'm working for the utility company, I'd offer to take tree #1 down.  You can do with it what you want.  You're made whole because you haven't lost anything.  If you try future growth, you'll end up having to figure the amount of growth over a given period.  How far out will you take it?  Tree #2 I would offer nothing. 

If I'm working for the landowner, I would give the same advice.  In court, I would come up with a valuation of the tree using stumpage prices in the area.  I think you might be able to get that.  I'm looking at about 250 bf Doyle in the tree.  If current stumpage is $500/Mbf, the valuation would be $125.  

The utility company would probably just pay you for that tree and avoid going to court.  If you try to ask for too much, they'll bring in their foresters and the court will rely on their professional opinion vs yours. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline ohiowoodchuck

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2022, 09:35:57 AM »
What would you value tree #2 at. They have agreed to pay for both. Iím not trying to give them a inflated number or lie about anything. Iím just trying to be reasonable nor am I trying to sell a tie log as a veneer. Iím not looking to value the loss over time just the standing value today. 
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Online doc henderson

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2022, 10:02:06 AM »
this has been a good exercise.  thanks everyone.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2022, 10:14:16 AM »
The value is in the current stumpage value in your area.  I can't give a dollar figure on that.  This might help you: https://woodlandstewards.osu.edu/sites/woodlands/files/imce/Ohio%20Timber%20Price%20Report%20Fall%2021%20-%20Spring%2022.pdf

I wouldn't go with the highest price in the stumpage.  As you can see, blocking logs are $400-500/Mbf, so don't expect that much more than that for stumpage, assuming the butt log has good quality.  Stumpage value = log value - logging cost. 

No matter what you get, you'll still have the trees.
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Offline ohiowoodchuck

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Re: Opinion on damaged white oak.
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2022, 10:55:49 AM »
Yes it has and I appreciate everyone who has commented. It is a very educational lesson also. 
Education is the best defense against the media.


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