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Wooded land…cutting trees…residential land now?

Started by zurb23, January 23, 2023, 07:10:23 PM

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zurb23

Timber cutting or logging ...does that make unimproved land become residential?

I'm curious. I'm looking at getting unimproved (no utilities at all) land but it's mostly wooded. Some 3 acres, 10-15% of trees reside in it still. Does it make it residential officially? It's miles into corn fields, so it's not close to anything but at most a couple houses where land is at a minimum 25+ acres.

Also this is very general, I'm in indiana, what is best for land value as far as trees? What to keep, what I maybe log? I like cedar n evergreens for deer. What else? General answers are okay

TroyC

Don't know about Indiana, but in my neck of the woods residential has to be applied for. Sometimes all the lots around an area will get residential zoning so the zoning of remaining may be upgraded as to how the area is developing. Sounds like you may have something with agricultural zoning. Check with your local tax assessor and they will tell you the zoning classification.

Tom King

Trees can grow back.  Around here, all the newcomers think it's the worst thing in the world to see a forest "destroyed".  Trees are mainly a crop around here though.

beenthere

Likely assessed residential due to it being 3 acres. 
south central Wisconsin
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Ianab

Trees or lack of them doesn't change zoning classifications. That's more to do with permitted / restricted uses for the land. 

If it's "Residential" that usually means it's easy to get subdivided into house size lots, and agricultural or industrial uses are restricted. You can't keep hogs or build a factory, because it would annoy the other residents. 

Agricultural - farming type activities. You generally could set up a hog farm, milk cows , grow corn (or trees). It's difficult to subdivide for houses, as that would require changing the zoning to residential.  It also means that if you build on a small section in an"Agricultural" zone you don't get to complain about the neighbours hogs / tractors / sawmill etc. Of course people do build, and then complain about the farmer next door getting cows in to milk at 5am. Tough, that's permitted. 

You also have Industrial and Commercial Zoning with other permitted uses.
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Walnut Beast

It's more than likely ag. I'm curious about that little tract getting sold off of the larger parcel? Is there a road into it, off road access or going to be a easement to it. Is there tillable farm ground around it? Usually people don't like breaking up a large parcel with a little tract of land unless it's pretty valuable. The tract your talking about without seeing it. If it could be put in tillable ground by being fairly flat or not and just kept as is especially if uneven terrain or no tillable ground around it. Without seeing or knowing the details I would put a value of 4,000 to 7,500. Usually in tillable county the open area is worth way more than the wooded area. But on the flip side small parcels are going to bring more money because little ones like that are going to be limited

SwampDonkey

A few years back, in New Brunswick any land 10 acres or less was classified as a building lot. That made of lot a people angry when their 5 or 6 acre field was taxed as a building lot. Went from $20 a year to $400 a year with nothing sitting on it but grass land or a clear cut. Most have a road frontage and a power line going by it.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Walnut Beast

You also better double check with your local zoning on minimum acre parcels what you can and can't do. As for value on the land I will give you a example. The value on my ground is in the 11 to 13 k range with tillable and trees combined. But there is no way I would sell three acres for that. I just recently sold one acre for 44k that's based on small bare parcel land values. ( classified as ag) So don't be surprised if the guy wants way more than the land value for that little parcel. More than likely it will be worth  more than you paid for it in five years especially if it's within 10 to 20 miles of a larger town

rusticretreater

All counties have zoning laws and they can only be changed through an administrative process.  Zoning usually goes from high density to low density emanating out from a town or city, kinda like rings on a target.  There may be minimum lot size and laws that say you cant repeatedly subdivide past a certain point.  This keeps land tracts intact.  So a farmer with a large tract can subdivide a piece to give his children a piece or two but not cut it up into minimum size pieces that everyone will want to build a house on.

To have a large cornfield, it is certainly Agriculture zoned.  There are several layers of Ag zoning.

Check and see if the county has a GIS website.  You can find it by navigating through the county website or just google thecounty state gis.  It will have a search engine and you can enter the property tax id, address or owner and find the records.  It will give you an interactive map that will show you all sorts of info.  You can also look at all the properties around you.  There are also overlays that will show you elevation, easements, protected areas, etc.  Some can overlay aerial pictures over the plots as well.  You can also look up property tax records on the county website, usually under the county treasurer area.
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Ianab

Quote from: Walnut Beast on January 24, 2023, 01:52:38 AMt's more than likely ag. I'm curious about that little tract getting sold off of the larger parcel?


Things like that happen here if there was once a village that's gradually been abandoned over the years. So there will be small tracts of land that were once a school or dairy factory, long since demolished, but those couple of acres exist with their own title. Possibly bought cheap by an adjoining land owner etc. 

The local council has just had a "tidy up" of the land titles around Midhirst, which is a small village about 5 mins Nth of here. A larger township had been laid out in the original survey, and there were various "paper roads", and several blocks that were still owned by a guy that died ~100 year ago with no heirs. Those "lost" pieces of land had basically been claimed by locals and they would graze some sheep or a horse on them, but they had no official owner. But also no one was paying taxes for them either, the "owner" was long dead. Anyway, the tidy up meant they people could buy those adjoining sections or bits of paper road for a sensible price. Some have since been sold off and built on, and we have 10 more mail boxes for that part of the mail run.   But it was interesting to look at the GIS data online, compared to the overheard pictures. That open field was actually 6 building lots with their own title. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

SwampDonkey

That doesn't happen here because if taxes go unpaid for a certain period, not long, it gets seized by the government, public notice is sent out in the Gazzete and local papers and put up for public auction.

Some part of Newfoundand had people whose heirs 'squatted' on land they were not given title to. Had a house on it for years, never owned the parcel. Now the heirs are in trouble, they don't own the place, can't sell. Happened just up the road to. There was a tenant who was paying rent.  After while the rent payments stopped, the guy lost his wife and he later had a stroke. After he recovered he paid the owner a sum and wanted the place deeded over. Never happened. He died and the heirs found out he doesn't own it. Farmer owns land around this house and wanted the land and tear down the old place. Can't, the heirs don't own it. Government wants back taxes in order to buy it. It will just sit and fall down because farm land here is worth far less an acre. You'd have that tax money into it, plus demolition money for 1-1/2 acre of ground. They want $20,000 to tear down a house because the debris has to be taken offsite to be disposed. That's if you do it legal. Otherwise there's a local fella that would probably do it for $2000. I know a couple buildings he pushed/dumped over the gully/dump swamp up the road. Doesn't take 4 hrs to get rid of a house with heavy equipment.  :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ianab

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 24, 2023, 04:04:24 AM
That doesn't happen here because if taxes go unpaid for a certain period, not long, it gets seized by the government, public notice is sent out in the Gazzete and local papers and put up for public auction.
Technically it's the same here, just it had been put on the "too hard" pile for the last ~100 years. Because the land was bare, no services etc, it wasn't really costing the council anything. The value of the land historically was so low at the time it wasn't worth the paperwork. Last 20 years local building sections have increased maybe 20X, and that abandoned land was actually worth money. So they went through the paperwork to get it tided up.  
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

SwampDonkey

The government wants taxes, so that is a cost if they don't get it. Doesn't have to make economic sense sometimes. :D

Even old remote camp lots out in the boonies will probably revert back to the forest license holder anyway. The government and licensee knows, no one else is the wiser. A camp lot these days is probably over $600 tax, it's a lease.

I see a lot of new camps on waters that never were years ago. The waters, some are barren and others are no fishing allowed at all. Can't see the attraction, the roads are a mess, over grown, rocks and water holes. Got to wonder who these people are. Years ago was the time to have one for fishing, the creeks and lakes were over run with trout. Not now. I can only imagine that they are off road vehicle types, all those forestry roads to run on. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

stavebuyer

I bought 3 adjoining tracts from a farm division auction. No utilities, and 1.5 mile ROW private road easement. One tract is 4.1 acres and the others total 96. The 4.1 acres are taxed as a "lot" while the other acres get the ag rate. Taxes on the 4.1 acres are double what the 96 amount to. I should have had the tracts put back together. It would have paid the deed prep and recording fees several times already.

To answer your question, I would be shocked if cutting trees will alter your tax status. I would be more concerned that a small tract it may be taxed as residential even if it isn't. It would be here in KY.

peakbagger

New Hampshire (USA) has a "current use" law. If its raw land with no development there is a low base rate for the current use which is either farming or forestry as those uses do not require town services like education (the big one) or town services. The minimum is 10 acres to enroll a property in the program. The towns can only charge based on base rate for enrolled properties. The trade of for enrolling in the program is that if use changes like development, then the owner needs to pay the town a fee based on the taxes that would have been paid if it was not enrolled to take it out of the program. It makes holding large lots of undeveloped land affordable. On 86 acres of forest land I pay about $50 a year. Unlike neighboring states, no need to have forest management plan although there is slight "carrot" for doing one. It it is not enrolled, the town can assess it for future development value which normally is based on a premium for frontage based on the zoning minimum lot sizes with lower value. 

There is 10% tax on stumpage for non owner use (owner's first 10 MBF (20 cords) for personal use is exempt).

Cedarman

Not all counties in Indiana have zoning. My county is not zoned.  Many years ago the commissioners tried to get zoning.  The newspaper reported they had too many death threats and dropped the idea.
Check with your assessor.
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Walnut Beast

Zoning rules have been and do get bent all the time. Depends on if the zoning administrator is in charge and can put his stamp on it. Or if it has to go to the planning commission for a vote. There are things the zoning administrator wouldn't approve and the commission does. 

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