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pine tree slowly dying

Started by doc henderson, September 10, 2020, 09:55:23 PM

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doc henderson

was over having a beer with my buddy Jim.  and he reminded me that he has a tree that has been half brown and getting worse over two years.  



 


 


 


 


 


 

I can add more pics if you need.  what kind of tree, what is wrong, and is there something to do about it.  thanks!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Southside

Too many elliptical orbits around that big nuclear blob called Sol - it's happening to all of us.  ;D
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Clark

The easy and very general answer which provides no real causes is you have a pine (Ponderosa?) tree growing in an area that has no native pine trees. Trees planted outside their native range tend to have a shorter life span. 

How's that for a non-answer? In unrelated news, I'm thinking I should run for office.  ;)

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Texas Ranger

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Nebraska

Nematode disease that took out our Scotch pines  here 10 years ago looks like that.

Texas Ranger

If it is scotch pine, they do not fare well in Missouri over the years.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

doc henderson

It is a landscape tree.  not sure of the species.  it has been brown for a few years.  I think nematode is fast, like brown to dead in a month or so?
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

zinc oxide

Is there a natural gas line near there?

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Texas Ranger

Doc, the years money maker for the Forestry Club at the U of Mo was selling Scotch Pine Christmas trees.  We had a stand on school land that we cut from, and replanted.  After a certain age they trees were no longer right for Christmas trees.  The older ones displayed the symptoms you describe.  Those would be cut to replant the area.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

square1

is there something to do about it? 
 smiley_chop

Texas Ranger

Quote from: square1 on October 24, 2020, 08:27:43 AM
is there something to do about it?

I always thought they were planted off site and age did not sit well with them.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

doc henderson

I finally got some closer pics of the tree for ID and poss.  diagnosis.  any further thoughts.



 

 

 

found this in the tree, double needles.



 

 


 
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Wudman

The egg mass on the needle is from a praying mantis.  It has nothing to do with the condition of the tree, but if you keep it, you can hatch an army of beneficial insects.

Its lower limbs were pruned in the not too distant past, causing a significant injury to the tree.  I would fare to guess that this injury opened a path for some type of fungal infection.  That infection is now blocking the transport of nutrients and water.

Wudman   
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Texas Ranger

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

doc henderson

thanks Tex.  I do not know, but I have those in my yard.  and it does look similar.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WDH

It is a long 2-needle-to-the-fascile pine with a small ovoid cone.  It is a yellow pine.  It is not ponderosa, lodgepole, jack, shortleaf, or any other native 2 needle pine that I know of.  Might be a furriner.  Maybe I am just xenophobic. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Southside

And Mr Big words is back!!!   ;D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

You can certainly rule out Scots pine, there have been a few planted around up here on old Christmas tree farms. Most get abandoned and the insects do a number on them. They are the crookedest looking pine around and the needles are darker green than our native jack pine. They do tend to seed in on fields that they have been planted on. They would probably remind you more of a Virginia pine, jack pine, or lodgepole pine, except probably the crookedest in the lot. :D Like a jack pine at least, a lower limb will often try to get dominance in the crown when open grown.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

farmfromkansas

My son bought a house on the edge of Hope KS, which has several pine trees, and they are all dying.  My thought is the droughts we have had in KS has contributed to their demise.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

kantuckid

Quote from: WDH on November 11, 2020, 08:53:28 PM
It is a long 2-needle-to-the-fascile pine with a small ovoid cone.  It is a yellow pine.  It is not ponderosa, lodgepole, jack, shortleaf, or any other native 2 needle pine that I know of.  Might be a furriner.  Maybe I am just xenophobic.
It is definitely not what's called in my area of KY, these various names: jack pine, black pine, field pine or bad names not in a tree book. I have cut a bunch of them sold for pine posts. 
 I agree with the above quote as not much about the picture matches the ones I name here with local names all for the same tree. Locals here sometimes miss-name Virginia pines as SYP's, even some logger will do that. SYP is not very common near me and found in spots.
I planted 3,000 Virginia pines and same amount of EWP, both were stock from sate tree farm and genetically selected for growth and size but otherwise same as wild trees. Virginias always have a blacker bark than our Local Jack pines. 
Having lived in KS my 1st 30 years I would have called the tree in this thread a Scotch pine as there are no true pins wild grown there in my experience but scotch pines used to be grown/sold for a Christmas tree in KS. 
Don't I wish we had Lodgepole pines here in KY, they'd go into my cabin.  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Al_Smith

You have to remember by and large a pine is a mountain tree .A landscape type tree usually will never be as robust .Kind of like Lombardy  poplar that can get huge in the Pacific north west but seldom live more than 20 years in this area of the country ..Colorado blue spruce, I have a few but I've seen them on the slopes in Colorado and these will never grow that long or large .
White pines are native to portions of Ohio mainly the east and south east ,never here in the north west .

ppine

It is a long needled pine.  That rules out Scotch pine and cones are not right.
Ponderosa can have 2 and 3 needles per fascicle.  It was commonly planted as a wind break tree in the Midwest for decades.

No obvious signs of pathogen or insect invasion.  Could be a water issue.  Is it planted in a wet spot?  Seems to be dying from the bottom up.

Native trees grow where they compete best not where they grow best.  Moving a native tree species out of its natural range is no big deal for the tree as long as they get some water, growing space and nutrients. 

Native conifers often do best on well drained soils.  Does this site have clay in it?
Forester

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