Chainsaw chains: Opinions of skip chain.

[Lewis Brander]

Just was wondering of your opinion of semi-skip, full skip vs full compliment chain. When would you use semi-skip, full skip vs full compliment chain. I hear that some preferr to use semi-skip once the bar lenght reaches the 30" length and to full skip after bars reach the 50" or so length. Does semi-skip put less strain, say on a smaller saw with a longer bar? Just was wondering what your different opinions are on these chains and applications. Hope I'm not opening up a can of worms. I was thinking on getting some semi-skip chain to use on one of my old chainsaws a PM Rocket, that has a 27" bar, uses 1/2" pitch, .063 gauge, chipper chain. The saw is only 5.5 ci, has 4 HP at 4,000 rpm, but has a Gilmer belt reduction system of 3.1/1 ratio. The old chain is shot and can get a decent price of a 68 dl of 1/2" chipper chain. So was wondering what you thought. Thanks. Lewis.

[Dean Hylton]

Hey how's that Homelite doing?

[Lewis Brander]

Hello Dean. The old 5-20 Homelite is runnig just fine. The parts fit just fine. I managed to get a loop of 1/2"pitch, 52 DL, .063 gauge,  Oregon Chipper chain for her, brand new for $19.65 off ebay. I ran her at my brothers and after readjusting the carb a bit, you couldn't stop her. She's somewhat big. heavy and somewhat slow, but cut 20" stuff without a problem. I have a fellow who is sending me some decals for her. Once I get them, I plan on painting her up this winter. If I can remember I'll send you a couple of pics, once she's done. Any way I want to thank you again for your help. Lewis.

[Lewis Brander]

Hello to all. Have gotten a few emails with some advice on skip chain. Gusee I'll see if I can get the regular Full house chain to use. Thanks. Lewis.

[rebocardo]

I like using the full skip chain on my Husky 365 with a 28 inch bar. You notice the difference once you are cutting a 20+ inch hardwood tree. It really flies compared to full comp. I noticed no real difference between safety chain and full comp.

The full skip does not bog down the longer bar and it sure makes filing much faster. I usually use the safety chain to drop the tree and then the full skip to cut it up or to make table rounds on the bigger trees.

[Kevin]

If the full length of the bar is buried in wood full skip is better .
Full skip is more prone to kick back when preforming tasks such as limbing.
You can't bore cut with safety chain.

[mrcaptainbob]

Uh.not knowing, but interested in the terminology. Skip, full skip...what does that mean? Where Can I get info on this kind of stuff to learn? I've had my chainsaw for about 25 years, but know little more than the basics.......Thanks...

[Kevin]

This should help ...
http://www.cdcstihl.net/stihlpost/spring2001/chain.html

[mrcaptainbob]

That's some good info, Kevin. Thanks.

[IndyIan]

Hi Kevin,
Does full skip work when you have a certain minimum number of teeth in the wood?  Also I have found that you can bore softwood with safety chain(with the ramps), just not really well...  
Ian

[rebocardo]

> Full skip is more prone to kick back when preforming
> tasks such as limbing.

For sure, I use safety chain (usually) or full comp to limb the tree, but switch to the full skip to slice and dice the trunk or larger branches.

One thing that is pretty dangerous using full comp is doing an undercut on a trunk or limb. Especially if it is a small branch 14" or less because you can cut right through it before you realize it and jam the chain or bury the nose.

I was pretty scared to use full skip and avoided it for the longest time and bought safety and 72v chain until I had enough experience where I thought I could deal with potential kickback.

But, once you start doing over 30" trees you really need the full skip on the smaller saws because (like my Husky 365) they just can not pull a 28" chain through hardwood without bogging down, especially within a deep kerf.

I was amazed the first time I used it, that it could be so much faster with less teeth.

[Kevin]

 Ian;
Full skip was designed to clear the sawdust when the full length of the bar is buried in wood , if the sawdust isn't cleared the saw will labor.
More teeth will cut more wood, clearing the sawdust isn't a huge concern on small trees.
I primarily use full skip for milling.
Full skip would be good for cutting stumps on smaller trees where there's a root flare.

[jokers]

Obviously there is a length where full skip will become a necessity for chip clearance as Kevin stated, but most guys I know including myself don`t want to run skip on anything under 32" to 36". Full comp is faster unless the saw is underpowered. It`s also not practical to be swapping chains between felling, limbing, and bucking.

What I typically do on longer bars is keep the gullets as open as I can get them to accomodate the chips and periodically, and just for an instant, lift the bar out of the cut to clear the chips from the kerf. If you were watching you probably wouldn`t even notice except that you`d see a blast of chips fly out the back. Another thing you can do with a full comp chain for a long bar is grind or file the cutters back about 1/4 of the way right from the start and then hog the gullets out. It will give you alot more space to carry chips and you still have the benefit of all the cutters.

Oregon Vanguard is a safety chain that bores very well but the bent over depth guages are more work to lower as the need arises.

Russ

[Kevin]

I'm uncertain of the safety aspect with regard to Vanguard chain.
The depth gauges ride more wood when new but as the cutter is sharpened the overall width of the depth gauge becomes less also.
Less vibration possibly when new but safer?
Safety chain reacts on the bend radius on the bar nose to prevent kickback so if sufficient boring is possible with Vanguard how safe can it be?
I have only ever had one loop of Vanguard and the fact they have made several changes to the original design tells me I'm not the only one that didn't care to use the stuff.

[OneWithWood]

I have been using semi skip for falling and bucking and I am happy with the results.  I have definately noticed quicker cutting in larger diameter stuff.  The square filed chain has less vibration when sharp but dulls quickly if it cuts into anything other than wood.  I round file the square chain after it dulls because my eyesight and skills aren't matched to square filing. :
I am using a Stihl MS440 Mafnum with 20 and 25 inch bars.

[jokers]

I'm uncertain of the safety aspect with regard to Vanguard chain.
quote]

Hi Kevin, check it out here://www.oregonchain.com/lowkick.htm

I have no doubt that you`ve seen the info already but why try to explain it when the info is right there.

Russ

[Kevin]

The bumper ties and drive links are designed to force the cutting tooth out of the wood at the bar nose.
Vanguard doesn't have these.





http://www.blount.ca/info/faq.shtm#depthgauge

Here's the instructions on the Vanguard ...
http://www.oregonchain.ca/pdf/chain/72VFB_90.pdf

It would appear to me that as the cutter gets filed back the entire depth gauge is being reduced, maintaining the anti vib but increasing kick back somewhat.

 

[Lewis Brander]

Hello to all. Gald I came back to this thread. Was surprised to see all the good information that's listed. I have learned a bit more about chains. Thaks for all the replies. Lewis.

[rebocardo]

Thank You Kevin! That drawing of the circle makes it clear about how the links work. One picture is worth 1000 words in this case.

[BC_coops]

next to dull cutters, seems that probably the fastest way to slow down a chain is let the drive teeth bogg down in groove mung (bar oil + dust)

the skip chains would have fewer chipper teeth for the same number of drive teeth, and its the drive teeth which keep the bar groove clean.  Thus the longer grooves are getting more cleaning.  It's the clean groove (and sharp points) that lets the chain really sling, "fast and loose."  preventing accumulation of that unseen groove mung, especially for the narrow 050 groove on 3/8, might be an additional reason that skip chains work better on long bars.

[jokers]

Hey BC,

I don`t follow your logic that skip chains will clean a bar groove any better than full comp, they both have the same number of drive links for the same bar.

Skip chain is all about room for chip clearance at the teeth and in the kerf.

Kevin, I understand your point regarding Vanguard but I don`t have the answer. I think I know someone who does however and I`ll try to get that info.

Russ

[Kevin]

Russ;
I don't understand the sharpening method for the Vanguard.
Normally you file the cutter and take down the raker to maintain a constant depth.
The Oregon instructions have you filing the depth gauge on the wrong side opposite the working corner of the cutter, unless the side of the raker ahead of the cutting corner is already lower than the cutter.
I haven't seen the stuff in a while so I can't really say for sure.

[Al_Smith]

Howdy;I use full skip,on my larger oldies,with bars 36" and longer[ McCulloch sp 125 ,Homelite 2100s] ,works real good.Most likely,however,in the hardwoods,doesn't make much difference.