Cantilever system versus 4 post system

SDM · July 09, 2007, 08:50:33 AM

Hi everyone,

I own a tree service in Georgia and have access to a large supply hardwood, pine, and many other valuable species. I have been looking to purchase a portable band mill. 'm a little confused about the stability of the cantilever system of the Woodmizer. Is the Baker or Timberking 4 post system better? I can't decide on which model is best. Thanks

jpgreen · July 09, 2007, 09:11:52 AM

In one word... NO. ;D

The wobbley unstable cantilever story is smoke screen hype by the envious guys... :D

Robert Long · July 09, 2007, 09:25:14 AM

SDM

Go to the nearest wood/timber show or exhibition and look at the different mills and their options and ask questions. You will see all kinds of points you never considered.

Robert

woodbowl · July 09, 2007, 09:29:49 AM

jpgreen, the only reason you say that is because you own a woodmizer. ;D

SDM, I own an LT40 woodmizer and have made my complete living with it for years. I admit, I have been considering something else. I think I would like to move up to an LT70. ;)

ronwood · July 09, 2007, 09:29:49 AM

SDM

Welcome to the forum. Both systems have their advantages and cut good wood. Good maintenace and sharp blades is required for either design. I would suggest you take a look at any sawmill in person and see haow it cuts.

Ron

jpgreen · July 09, 2007, 09:45:59 AM

Oh yeah sure... LT70- now there's a wobbler.. :

:D

pineywoods · July 09, 2007, 09:55:15 AM

I agree with JP. If you are gonna be sawing knotty limby yard logs, the cantilever system has a BIG advantage. Yes, then CAN make lousy lumber, but as Tom has so well pointed out on this forum, bad lumber is an OPERATOR problem, not equipment. Actually there is a third option called a swinger type mill. Ask lots of questions, there are plenty of guys on here who will gladly help. I admit to being a dyed-in-the-wool woodmizer fan for many reasons, not all of them technical. .

flip · July 09, 2007, 10:23:34 AM

99.9% of that is the operator, maintenance and routine adjustments. They wouldn't sell so many if they "sagged". I got a 4 poster and I have to adjust from time to time. Run one of each before you buy.

DanG · July 09, 2007, 11:07:04 AM

Welcome, SDM. There are a couple of other members in the Macon area with small mills. I'm sure they will chime in when they see this.

I'm a circle mill guy, but I've observed a whole bunch of bandmills and played around with a couple of them. From what I've seen, they will all cut good lumber, and will all cut bad lumber. Every one of them have features that enhance and other features that detract. What one guy might see as a huge advantage may not be a big deal to the next guy. For example, the cantilevered head on the Woodmizer is NOT a problem, but I see it as a slight, rather than huge advantage. I wouldn't buy the mill based solely on that feature, but somebody else might. Also, one might find they like one maker's big mill and another's midsized mill, and yet another's small mill.

There are a few things you can do that will help you make up your mind. First, do a whole bunch of reading on this Forum. There is probably more info about sawing here than anywhere else in the world. Second, if you can hold off until October, go to the Sunbelt Expo in Moultrie and see dozens of mills in action. Third, visit as many mills as you can find and watch them in actual production. There is a big difference in one underequipped guy sawing whatever he has available, and a show environment where there are several helpers and some near perfect logs already staged.

ely · July 09, 2007, 12:21:41 PM

one thing for sure you could not have asked a better group of folks. i have used both designs and have no problems with either. welcome to the site and thanks to jeff for making it all happen.

WDH · July 09, 2007, 01:03:46 PM

Welcome SDM. I am just down the road near Perry. I would advise you to size the mill according to the frequency that you will using it. I only cut hardwood for my own use, so my little manual woodmizer LT 15 is just right. If you cut most every day, or maybe weekly, then one of the hydraulic mills might be a better choice to ease the log handling and to get increased thru-put.

As well as the type of mill, I would advise you to develop a business plan that considers up-front cost, potential markets, expected production, support equipment, lumber handling/stacking/storage, etc. If the numbers don't work out on paper, they usually do not work out in real life.

MikeH · July 09, 2007, 07:32:46 PM

I have a cantileverd one that works great for custom sawing. I can pull up to a job and be sawing in five minutes flat, if we didn't talk about weather/lumber first. Plus in the very rare case :D they have a crooked logs or limbs not cut very short you can stick them out the open side. May not matter very much if you get good logs and are stationary but for portabilty.... Woodmizer Rocks ;)

Bibbyman · July 09, 2007, 07:58:46 PM

Welcome to the Forum SDM.

Not much I can add to the already great testimony. I guess I don't have to be the "first responder" anymore. ;)

Dodgy Loner · July 09, 2007, 08:19:22 PM

To expand on what MikeH said, the reason the cantilevered design is so quick to set up is because there is only one rail to level. With a four-post design, both rails must be perfectly parallel to each other or you'll end up with twisted lumber. But for a stationary setup, that might not be a big deal, because you'll only have to set it up once.

SDM · July 09, 2007, 08:37:22 PM

Thanks so much everyone. I heard that this was a great place for information and advice and they were right! I went to the Sawlex in SC back in May. I had been looking at Woodmizer prior so I really spent a lot of time talking with those guys. They seem to have great customer service which is important to me. Last month I went to Atlanta for a wood expo and talked with the guys from Baker. There wasn't any demos at this show, but I learned more about Baker than I had known. It seemed like a very durable machine and I liked the fact that their set works didn't ride with the cutting head , however, I was concerned with customer service and no local dealer(closest is in Missouri). I really would like to make a decision soon as so much of really great wood is going to waste. It's killing me to throw it out. Thanks again for all of your input.

Shawn Montgomery
Montgomery Inc. Tree Service

thecfarm · July 09, 2007, 08:49:23 PM

Welcome to the forum,SDM.Do A LOT of looking before buying.You really need to see them work and try to work a few yourself.I have a 2 post sawmill.Mine is built by a small machine shop here in Maine.Does a wonderful job.Lots of past posts on differant types of saws.Try to get hyds if you plan on using it to make some money.They really speed things up and saves your back.

Dan_Shade · July 09, 2007, 08:57:08 PM

Shawn, does it make more sense for you to hire a guy to come in and saw up your logs after you get a stack?

a lot of it would depend on how much time you want to spend sawing lumber instead of doing tree work.

Bibbyman · July 09, 2007, 10:32:11 PM

Quote from: SDM on July 09, 2007, 08:37:22 PM
....I liked the fact that their set works didn't ride with the cutting head ,

Shawn Montgomery
Montgomery Inc. Tree Service

Wood-Mizer is also available with a "remote statioin" called Command Control. On the LT40 series its attached to the mill.

On the LT70 series, its mounted on a stand that can be placed anywhere around the mill that the cable will allow. Most opt to set it at the tail end of the mill.

Dan_Shade · July 10, 2007, 06:04:26 AM

what mill is that in the second picture, Bibby? it looks like it has dual axles...

Haytrader · July 10, 2007, 06:49:15 AM

Dan,

It is the 70 Bibbyman was referring to, I do believe.

SDM,

I don't think you mentioned what support equipment you have and if you have the cash for a mill or if this would be on borrowed money. A good manual mill can be had for close to $6000 and will saw just as good as one of the more expensive saws. But, you need a tractor or skid steer to load and turn the big ones. If you already have somes means to load the logs, then a manual mill might be the answer. Then if you don't want to saw for a while you don't have much investment sitting there.

But...........if dough is not an issue, go with bells and whistles. And don't forget to look at the swingers, as someone already mentioned.

Bibbyman · July 10, 2007, 08:22:59 AM

That's an LT80. There is only one like it in the USA and the last time I seen it it was in the bone yard at WM in Indy. It'll saw up to 27' long. They're available in Europe as the LT70L but not here.

Three loading arms, 7 bed rails, two axles and a few other feathres.

jpgreen · July 10, 2007, 09:52:27 AM

If it's not avialble here it must have something to do with DOT.. :

Dave Shepard · July 10, 2007, 11:34:16 AM

Bibbyman, the next time you are talking to your friends in Indy, tell them they can store that "junker" in my boneyard. ;)

Dave

Bibbyman · July 10, 2007, 12:42:39 PM

Quote from: jpgreen on July 10, 2007, 09:52:27 AM
If it's not avialble here it must have something to do with DOT.. :

I don't thinks so. I think its something else. They'll sell you a standard LT70 (or LT40) and a 6', 12' or 24' extension.

sgtmaconga · July 10, 2007, 05:44:33 PM

I'm in macon and have a timberking 1220. small but it cuts great. email me and we can get together and let you play with mine. i don't beleve the wobble story but i have made bad cuts like the guys have said. every time it was a dull blade.

learning as i go.

Richard