hello to all I am building my own band mill and I have been gathering all my material
got most of it now .but what I need to know is witch side is best to drive my blade right or left standing behind it seems one should pull the blade through the cut not push all I need is my motor and I have everything. also I have a lift gate hydraulic pump 12 volt .and four foot cylinder for power up and down will use with pulleys to pull even think this will work? ill have to charge my batt I know but no cranking.
old hippe,welcome to the forum. I have a manual mill,and I push the head. I have to walk through my sawdust,but I like it that way because I have 2 logs that I put my logs onto and I would have to shovel around that. nothing in the way where I walk.
welcome aboard
Welcome OH,
I think drive side will depend on direction of rotation of your motor,
My LT 10 drove clockwise from the operation position behind the head
pushing it through a log
best DGD
Standing behind my Norwood, the driven wheel is the one on the left.
Welcome to FF Old Hippie!! 8)
Seems like you could turn the motor around to switch rotation. One thing I have noticed on most factory mills is that the blade pushes the logs torward the backstops. On my homemade mill the blade cutting edge travels left to right (looking at it from behind the carriage). The cool thing about building a mill is you can make it how you like it.
Lots of homemade mills on FF , do a search and look at some builds in photo galleries. We will be glad to help.
I can set it up however to me pulling the blade would be better than pushing .front
wheel drive car you know what I mean.
push the blade?
on a lot of mills the drive will pushes the blade not pulls on it I can put my log stops
either side so my log will still pull into the stops on some across the pond posts on other boards say most us mills are dumb they bind and brake more blades work the motors harder . I don't know just asking iam sure someone knows thanks for the imput
Now I think i know what you asked. Good question really. I have no idea how other mills are but mine teeth are pointing to the right as I am standing behind the motor.
Welcome to the forum Old Hippie.
On my mill if you are standing behind it the drive wheel is on the left pulling the band, which makes sense in my way of thinking.
Allan
Hippie...welcome to the FF. Try cutting a board with a long, narrow crosscut handsaw. it will have a tendency to bind on the push stroke. Cut the same board with a japanese hand saw which cuts on the pull stroke. No binding. Imagine the Havoc resulting from pushing a 12' + bandsaw blade that binds at 60 mph. No need to reinvent the wheel (so to speak ;) ). Don't be afraid to use proven designs. There is plenty of room to make improvements or tweak to your needs. Tell us a bit more about the specs of your build. If you can post pictures, please do.
Quote from: old hippie on May 03, 2013, 10:20:41 PM
on a lot of mills the drive will pushes the blade not pulls on it
How do you tell if the blade is being pushed or pulled by the driven wheel ? ???
Welcome to the forum , and that's all I can help with as I'm a circular guy!
ok standing behind the mill the blade teeth turn to the right on my briggs motor looking at the shaft it turns counter clock wise so if I mount it on the right side
that seems the drive side would pull the blade into the log and stops if it was on the left wheel it would push it through. what about my lift gate pump my ram is two way
but I would extend it down to one inch from my deck and it would be power up and gravity down with a small spool with pulleys and cable to work both sides even .will send lots of pics soon thanks
Ok, how about another way to look at it:
Take a normal shop bandsaw. You rest your work on the table and the band travels down toward the table. This keeps your work down. Now look at the drive mechanics. It is the lower wheel that is powered. It "pulls" the blade. Now rotate it 90 degrees and you have your bandmill. The drive wheel should be behind the log stops "pulling" the blade through the log.
You need to keep the tension on the blade where "pushing" from the other wheel can cause issues - speaking strictly from a theroretical point of view!
Good form to pull the saw through the wood.That would mean driving the left band wheel although it would probably work OK ether way.My best suggestion would be to look at several factory built mills and get ideas.Oh and welcome.If you take care and build it right you can build a bandmill that will do as good a job as factory,thats how those folks got started. Frank C.
Maybe confused again, but I am thinking that the blade should be pulled thru the cut, against the back stops of the mill, all said whatever works is all that counts, david
John and Bandmiller
You are correct; It would like trying to push a rope or chain
If the driven wheel is on the right side of the log, looking at the back of the mill, would it pull the band through the log, around the idler wheel and onto the top edge of itself ?
would the band know weather it is being pushed or pulled ? ???
The "rub" comes in when there is a bind. If the band is being "pushed" through the cut and it binds (hits a nail?) near the exit, an amount of play in the structure will allow the band "pulled" the long way around to potentially "grow". That is, the tension mechanism or the structure itself will allow the blade to continue (albeit a tiny fraction) around the dive wheel - "pushing" more blade into the log, potentially making it bend or kink. A rope does not push as well as it can pull!
Better to design to avoid than to design and hope to avoid an issue!
Old Hippie, first, welcome to the FF. Your question on which wheel to power really got me thinking. My first thought was that you should mount your engine on the pull side because it is easier to pull the blade through than to push it through. As other members chimed in with their comments, it made me think even more.
While I agree that a lot of the comments sound good, something was missing or being left out of the equation. I agree that a Japanese saw cuts better on the pull stroke, just as I agree that the blade should pull the log into the backstops. And as far as pushing or pulling a chain or rope, well it reminded me of an old joke.
A guy is walking down the road pulling a fifty foot chain behind him, he meets another guy that asks him, "Hey buddy, why you pulling that fifty foot chain?". To which he replies, " You ever try pushing a fifty foot chain".
The more I thought about it I came to the conclusion that others did, and that was how does the blade know if it is being pushed or pulled? In all the of the responses given, it still seemed like something was missing. As I was laying in bed last night still trying to solve this in my head, it came to me.
I'm sure by now I've lost some of you, and you have stopped reading and moved on to another post. Or as my Wife calls it' "Chuckerizing". As in the Peanuts cartoon when the teacher is talking on and on, and on, and all Charlie Brown hears is "Whaaaa Whaa Whaa Whaa Whaaaaa".
Just lost a few more.
Back to me laying in bed. I was under a lot of tension trying to solve the problem. Lots and lots of tension. Thats when it came to me. Tension, that is what makes the blade do its work. That was what was missing from the equation. That's why you can't push a chain. It isn't under any tension. But wait, I can push a chain under tension. I do it every time I start up my chain saw.
Think about this. A chain saw can be used either way, pulling or pushing the chain. Now some of you are asking "What has this guy been smoking". When I cut through a log with my chain saw, I am pulling the chain on the bottom of the bar against the saw. But wait there's more. When I want to undercut a log so it doesn't pinch my bar, I am cutting on the top of the bar pushing the chain through the log. It works equally as well. The only difference is I have nothing to keep the saw from pushing it out of the log but my own strength. But what if I put a stop on the end of the bar to catch it from running out of the log. It would cut just as well pushing as it does pulling. As long as the chain is tensioned enough, it makes no difference. The blade doesn't know or care, it just does its job under tension.
So there is the answer you were looking for. It makes no difference which wheel you power. Use other design features to dictate which side you mount your engine on. As long as you have have your backstops on the side that your blade exits the log, it will make the cut, as long as you have the blade under tension.
For those of you that stuck it out to the end, all I can say is,
Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?
(Crickets chirping.)
Re: Deepwoods
Not a good analogy. The chain is still being pulled under tension thru the log no matter if you cut down or up with the bar.
DanG, more sleepless nights ::)
Quote from: DeepWoods on May 06, 2013, 10:29:17 AM
Old Hippie, first, welcome to the FF. Your question on which wheel to power really got me thinking. My first thought was that you should mount your engine on the pull side because it is easier to pull the blade through than to push it through. As other members chimed in with their comments, it made me think even more.
While I agree that a lot of the comments sound good, something was missing or being left out of the equation. I agree that a Japanese saw cuts better on the pull stroke, just as I agree that the blade should pull the log into the backstops. And as far as pushing or pulling a chain or rope, well it reminded me of an old joke.
A guy is walking down the road pulling a fifty foot chain behind him, he meets another guy that asks him, "Hey buddy, why you pulling that fifty foot chain?". To which he replies, " You ever try pushing a fifty foot chain".
The more I thought about it I came to the conclusion that others did, and that was how does the blade know if it is being pushed or pulled? In all the of the responses given, it still seemed like something was missing. As I was laying in bed last night still trying to solve this in my head, it came to me.
I'm sure by now I've lost some of you, and you have stopped reading and moved on to another post. Or as my Wife calls it' "Chuckerizing". As in the Peanuts cartoon when the teacher is talking on and on, and on, and all Charlie Brown hears is "Whaaaa Whaa Whaa Whaa Whaaaaa".
Just lost a few more.
Back to me laying in bed. I was under a lot of tension trying to solve the problem. Lots and lots of tension. Thats when it came to me. Tension, that is what makes the blade do its work. That was what was missing from the equation. That's why you can't push a chain. It isn't under any tension. But wait, I can push a chain under tension. I do it every time I start up my chain saw.
Think about this. A chain saw can be used either way, pulling or pushing the chain. Now some of you are asking "What has this guy been smoking". When I cut through a log with my chain saw, I am pulling the chain on the bottom of the bar against the saw. But wait there's more. When I want to undercut a log so it doesn't pinch my bar, I am cutting on the top of the bar pushing the chain through the log. It works equally as well. The only difference is I have nothing to keep the saw from pushing it out of the log but my own strength. But what if I put a stop on the end of the bar to catch it from running out of the log. It would cut just as well pushing as it does pulling. As long as the chain is tensioned enough, it makes no difference. The blade doesn't know or care, it just does its job under tension.
So there is the answer you were looking for. It makes no difference which wheel you power. Use other design features to dictate which side you mount your engine on. As long as you have have your backstops on the side that your blade exits the log, it will make the cut, as long as you have the blade under tension.
For those of you that stuck it out to the end, all I can say is,
Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?
(Crickets chirping.)
I read your whole post......... Now I need a beer. It's five-o-clock somewhere, right? ;D
Hippie, It's taken the better part of my life to train myself not to overthink things.
The driven wheel on a bandmill needs to pull the band through the cut, that's why every manufacturer does it that way.
You'll want to be behind the sawhead as you mill. Closer to the controls, and you'll have a better view of whats going on.
If you're right handed, you'll probably want to be behind and on the left of the side of the head.
If you're building a twin rail mill, you have the option of putting the idler wheel on the operator side, I'd recomend doing so, since this directs the sawdust away from you.
I'd be very curious to know the logic of those "across the pond" that push their bands. Probably the same folks that gave us British automobile electrical systems. :D
Both the band and the chainsaw chain are circles. The pushing and pulling forces are equal. The tension provides the missing link with both and causes them to be rigid.
Neither can be compared with a crosscut saw, stick or anything else that has two ends. They can be either pulled or pushed in the truest terms but only because they are rigid. You can not push a chain or a rope simply because it is not rigid.
And I will sleep well tonight. :)
Quote from: Delawhere Jack on May 06, 2013, 05:06:50 PM
...
I'd be very curious to know the logic of those "across the pond" that push their bands. Probably the same folks that gave us British automobile electrical systems. :D
And driving on the left hand side of the road! :)
Herb
Quote from: Alyeska Pete on May 06, 2013, 11:23:52 AM
Re: Deepwoods
Not a good analogy. The chain is still being pulled under tension thru the log no matter if you cut down or up with the bar.
When you are using the top side of the bar on a chainsaw, you are pulling the chain around the idler wheel.
If the chain is a bit loose and you are cutting with the upper side, the chain will be loose from the upper side of the drive sprocket, and on forward to where the teeth are cutting wood, the rest of the chain will be tensioned.
That is also what is happening on a bandsaw if the motor is on the right side of the mill vs. the more common place at the left side, you are pulling the blade around the idler wheel.
On a dozer or an excavator with flat tracks, you can see this when you are reversing.
The track is tensioned on the upper side, and curls on the bottom.
On caterpillars with the elevated drive sprocket the track tensions behind the sprocket when going forward, and in front of the drive sprocket when reversing.
If the tracks were to be tightened enogh so there is no slack, it will not curl.
Not until the torque of the drive sprocket is enough to compress the spring for the idler wheel.
Same thing on a bandsaw blade.
Given that the sawblade is tensioned with often more than thousand pounds of force, and the high speed and low torque of the band wheels, for all practical purposes, i dont think it matters much which side the motor is.