Log Prices?

[ehp]

Land owner asked me to count the rings on some of these walnut cause she thinks her Father planted them , turns out most of these walnut planted themselves as most were 44 to 62 years old and her father planted close to 90 years ago  Land owner is 84 years old and her dad planted before she was born, There were a few bigger trees which I sure were the ones he planted but they all gotten rotten centers now , Trees grow fast here but die fast as well 

[SwampDonkey]

Not sure how long walnut live, but butternut doesn't live as long as some aspen. 70-80 years, where aspen can go 150 years. But most aspen here now is suckers and do well to get to 40. The last of my old growth aspen fell over not long ago and where 36-40" at breast height and nearly 100 feet. Fire origin from around 1905. That's a rough date as my grandmother was born in 1900 and the fire happened when she was quite young. I've never seen any old butternut bigger than 30", and very few that size. I remember the woods around here before the big clear cut craze began 40 years ago on woodlots.

[Tom K]

I know we are getting a little off topic, but this tree age conversation is interesting to me. 

Our little section of woods was pillaged about 20 years ago. The previous owner knew they were going to sell so took what they could and didn't care what they left. Just about anything with value was cut.

This is the first year I've cut anything of any size out of there. I cut a dead standing pignut hickory, 20" bdh & 100ish years old. I also cut a beech with the top blown out that was 22" dbh & 120ish years old. 

Part of the property adjacent to ours was planted to mixed hardwoods in around 1988. There max. tree size right now is around 10-12", granted they have not done any thinning which would is greatly needed. They mainly planted white oak, ash, walnut, and hard maple I believe.

[DavidDeBord]

In S. West Ohio,..... has the price for veneer grade Walnut fallen?

[nativewolf]

On walnut, nope.  It's getting to be the end of the high end walnut sales though.  So, if not selling in the next week or so better wait til October if you can at all manage.  

[nativewolf]

I know we are getting a little off topic, but this tree age conversation is interesting to me.

Our little section of woods was pillaged about 20 years ago. The previous owner knew they were going to sell so took what they could and didn't care what they left. Just about anything with value was cut.

This is the first year I've cut anything of any size out of there. I cut a dead standing pignut hickory, 20" bdh & 100ish years old. I also cut a beech with the top blown out that was 22" dbh & 120ish years old.

Part of the property adjacent to ours was planted to mixed hardwoods in around 1988. There max. tree size right now is around 10-12", granted they have not done any thinning which would is greatly needed. They mainly planted white oak, ash, walnut, and hard maple I believe.

your tree spacing was driving the DBH, hardwoods need wide spacing to achieve optimal DBH.   Beech is funny because it grows as a shade tolerant tree under fully mature hardwoods, and then explodes into fast growth when the dominant canopy dies out.  

[Freedy201]

too much nowadays if you ask me.

[mudfarmer]

too much nowadays if you ask me.

I guess you are a buyer?

[ehp]

Have not cut a walnut sense Monday morning cause of the clay and raining everyday but did send 8 loads total and it sold pretty well , Everything is showing prices are going to drop here soon and that includes white oak 

[ehp]

Finished yesterday as it finally got dry enough to skid he rest of the walnut , am suppose to do another small walnut cut here . So what is everyone else been hearing to do with the summer logging ?  Mills here donot want much or any lower grade logs like pallet . 

[ehp]

HM veneer price for me has been very good this winter  well everything veneer has been good , WO has been way better than I could ever think , they took stuff a year ago I could not sell for a number 1 sawlog 

[ehp]

Well , just finished 3 1/2 days of rain and its to start again tomorrow , you need a boat pretty much around here right now , it is very wet but the grass and lavf growth is not started so that will suck up a fair bit of water 

[nativewolf]

can anyone fill me in on Aspen pricing?  How fast does it grow?  Will a 20 year old Aspen be worth anything other than pulp?

[ehp]

Aspen here right now is pretty much a dirty word , It's on the very low end on log pricing and not many mills want it which I donot understand as most is made into trim which they get paid very good money for so they are making good coin on it . As far as logs it's pretty much same rules as other logs but the mill does like 10 ft 6inch or 16 ft 6 inch for length. It grows fast here but so does everything else  and we donot have a pulp market here at all, the biggest problem is we get from $250 to $400/1000 for it at the mill for logs , the land owner thinks its worth $165/1000 standing then you got to cut ,skid, truck to their mill so you loose money cutting it . Time you figure out your logging cost plus the rest you make more money walking past it which I do alot 

[mudfarmer]

About the same here, one small steady buyer with very low pricing. I pushed a bunch of it up into a pile to rot on last lot clearing job because it didn't pencil out to haul. Probably only the chip crews will cut much of it in this neck of the woods.

[ehp]

I have said it before  with logging cost this high and land owners wanting so much for their standing timber that the about breaking point is $700/1000 so any timber worth less than that you loose money cutting it and until things change that will be the outcome , there is getting fewer loggers in my area every month cause most cannot make any coin at the job , most cannot add 2 +2 and come up with the correct answer so once they break something huge on their equipment or not pay for the timber their logging days are numbered , If I'm going to go log knowing I'm going to loose coin I will sit at home and fight with the dog on what we watch on TV and not wear my equipment out . Logging these days you need to think and plan every move out or its not going to end up good for you

[SwampDonkey]

I burn aspen here for firewood, I don't sell pulp. Used to be a veneer market, but wasn't much more money than pulpwood. They make berry boxes here from aspen. I don't know of any other berry market using aspen boxes. Cheap and no end in site. They cut aspen up here every 30-40 years. It can grow up to 40" dbh here, but that's 90 years. You won't get the suckered aspen living that long or growing that big in these parts. That's why it's cut every 30 years or so. Aspen after a fire grows bigger and older around here.

[barbender]

If we didn't have aspen we wouldn't have a timber industry in northern MN. OSB, paper, and cellulosic fiber all use aspen for their main feed stock in our mills, and a lot of it goes for pallet production too. 

[beenthere]

Aspen plywood too. 

[ehp]

It's just like red pine that does not make poles , around here we can hardly cut it as its pays very low but 400 miles away they pay not to bad for it but the trucking will kill you 

[ehp]

And right now here there is no pallet market , they cannot sell the low grade lumber

[mudfarmer]

march 2023 white ash pallet $300/mbf

march 2024 white ash pallet $200/mbf

prime, select and #2 all went the other direction

[SwampDonkey]

Where do the pallets come from? Imported? With all the moving of goods, southern Ontario should have high demand for pallets. In my neck of the woods, bagged or box potatoes are stacked on pallets. And the truckers are real fussy on them, but they don't mind leaving their broken ones and take the good ones from ya without paying for them.  I couldn't count how many broken ones that was left that we had to replace with brand new ones. The Canadian truckers would make you stack aside their new ones, then put back on the truck. Never ran into that with American truckers. What was the point of hauling empty pallets around? 

[ehp]

One of my friends had a pallet making place and closed the doors as zero money to be made making pallets , At $300/1000 there is no way in this country you can make money making pallets and for real sure no logging crews can make money at $300/1000 cutting pallet timber , You have to pay for the standing timber, cut, skid , buck up and pile then truck to the mill and remember everything is falling by hand and skidded by smaller cable skidders , if your in a planted red pine or scotch pine place you can use machines to do the work but not out in the hardwoods. I watch very close on what jobs I take , I turned down 3 jobs just yesterday cause there was no way to make money , the timber standing price was just way to high and I'm to old to work loosing money on every tree . Here pretty much most jobs are on private ground and the gotv does not own or run the mills 

[ehp]

Give me walnut, real white oak, big white pine and good hard maple am I'm happy