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Rafting ax HEAD source.

Started by Old Greenhorn, October 15, 2019, 09:16:23 PM

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Old Greenhorn

 So as I get older and 'more fragile' I am trying to refine my gear to work more efficiently. Along that vein I have an ax that I carry in my belt for felling work, it's an oddball I really love, my dad made the setup for himself and the handle is about 16 inches but the head is nearly 3 pounds. It's a good wedge ax and a great cutting ax (sharper than an ex-wife's tongue). Most of the time it serves me well, but.. For the bigger driving work I have a full ax on the Mule that I can use, but it's too big to carry in a pocket sheath. So I was looking into a rafting ax size, 28" handle, 3 pound head (plus or minus). That would fit in the pouch. Besides, I don't have anything with a rafting handle, which is what I think is best for driving wedges.
 Did I mention that I probably own 'around' 25 axes? 
 Anyway, I bought some stuff from Madsen's last week and they had a good price on rafting handles, so I ordered a 28" and didn't think twice that I would have a head for it. It seems like every time I am cleaning and moving stuff I find 3 or 4 heads that need handles, some good, some not so much. My Dad used to buy any ax head he found in a yard sake for under 2 bucks. I got them all over. 
 Problem is, I can't FIND any of them.
 The only decent head I found was a bit too big (the eye was too long) for the handle. I have no rafting heads. I do know that I have one somewhere I have been saving for years. I reconditioned it, polished it, then put a sheath on it and put it on the shelf until I found a proper handle. Now I can't find it. ;D
 OK, I thought, lets just see what I can buy. New ones are gonna be expensive, so I looked on ebay for used. HOLLY COW! I should not be surprised at what passes for "vintage", "good shape", "ready to go", "excellent condition", but GEEZ! Some of these things have pieces broken out of the side of the eye, some have the toe ground back an inch and a half further than the heel, some have spread eyes, chips off the heel, wow. I don't see anything worth putting time into. 
 Then I tried searching for new ones. I really don't want to spend 50 bucks for a head, but am looking for something around 3 pounds to go on that handle. For some reason all google shows me is advertising garbage now, mostly amazon. Apparently everything and nothing is a 'rafting ax'. So now I am down to the catalog stuff. Does anybody have any leads? I'd really like to find an old one that is not too abused and doesn't have the toe ground off so that I have to take the bit back past the temper edge. But you can't buy those out of a catalog. 
 I just want to buy a decent head. Anybody have sources?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Skeans1


Old Greenhorn

a council head seems a broad description to me (maybe I need a better education). A rafting ax is easiest recognized by the chamfers (miter cuts) going up each side toward the heel. I don't know any other style that has those. They were added to the design to minimize chipping from driving rafting hooks on log rafts.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

BargeMonkey

 Post a picture of what exactly your looking for, I'm friends with an auctioneer who literally has an old grand union building full of stuff, fair amount of tools and always finding stuff. 

Old Greenhorn

I'll look for one. Good luck on the drive today. It may not get bad up northeast until the overnight. Or are you going tomorrow?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

OK, I found one that shows the detail I am looking for. It may seem like a nit, but the chamfers you see leading up to the back face are designed to minimize or slow mushrooming, chipping and flaking. These axes were designed to drive in the iron or soft steel spike-eyes used to tie log rafts together as well as trim bumps and branches. Often times they had a hardened poll and I would prefer that, but for plastic wedges I am not too worried about that.



 

These were made by many of the major players including Collins and Plumb. I am pretty sure what they make today does not have a hardened poll, but who knows. Some of these designs do not have flat chamfers, they have radii that lead up the same way. That's just a design difference, it's still the same thing.
 I am looking for something where the shape of the blade, eye, and poll have not been too far comprised that I can't get them back. Also in the 3# range.Most of what I find somebody put to a bench grinder and took a 1/2" or more off the toe. By the time I bring the rest of the edge back to meet it, I am past the cutting edge and into soft steel.
 Anyway, it's a long shot, and I am in no hurry at all. Just looking for one that is laying around somewhere and deserves a better life. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

Well, for now we can back burner this. I am not giving up and I really would like to get one of these but for now I found another head. I KNEW I had it somewhere and it only took 20 minutes to fit and hang the head. It's a bit over 3 pounds and fits and feels great on the handle. I like the rafting handle because it swings better for driving wedges. At 28" it's not too long to put in a pocket scabbard. But my scabbard is too small by 3/4", so now I need to get a bigger one.  ;D



 

This is not the rafting head I wanted (and still will seek), but it does have a story, and I love axes with a story. The head is marked EVANSVILLE and I am not really familiar with the brand, I will do some looking later unless somebody here can fill me in.



 

The story behind this ax is that as a kid I watched my Dad restore many axes and make them work like new. The one I carry now is one such ax and this one will take it's place and that one goes back in the rack. Anyway, I think I was about 14 when I found this ax head in an auction and talked him into giving me 50 cents to buy it and fix it for my own. It was in rough shape and I worked on it quite a bit (for a 14 year old kid). It took a while. When we looked at the size handle it should have had (36") I realized it was a bit much for me to swing and control at that point. Also I was to earn the money for the handle. So I never happened to get it finished. But I made a cover sheath with a scrap of leather and it stayed with me through growth, marriage, kids and a couple of houses. Every time I came across it I thought I should finish it. Tonight was the night. It had a little surface rust and yes it has some surface scars that I will not sand out. But no burrs, all smoothed off. I need to do a little more polishing and then put a proper edge on it. So it is not complete yet, but not far off. I am pretty happy I found that head, it's a good one. I love my axes.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

BargeMonkey

 I've got a double bit axe over in my storage container if your looking for one of those, bought it for my 1st wife at an auction, she wanted to hang it on the wall. Somehow it was out ? I dont know how many of you guys have a woman who constantly rearranges everything ? 😂 And sitting by the closet, anyway some things happen and i chase her out of the shower naked one morning, she runs for the bed and turns the corner by the closet, LOPS her PINKY TOE OFF on the corner of this axe, i mean it's not hanging by a thread of skin 😂 explain that one in the E/R.... 

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: BargeMonkey on October 16, 2019, 09:24:09 PM
I've got a double bit axe over in my storage container if your looking for one of those, bought it for my 1st wife at an auction, she wanted to hang it on the wall. Somehow it was out ? I dont know how many of you guys have a woman who constantly rearranges everything ? 😂 And sitting by the closet, anyway some things happen and i chase her out of the shower naked one morning, she runs for the bed and turns the corner by the closet, LOPS her PINKY TOE OFF on the corner of this axe, i mean it's not hanging by a thread of skin 😂 explain that one in the E/R....
Barge, I have no idea how to ...... I mean um, I got nothing..... I just can't .. um. Yeah. :-[
Well, hey, if you or anyone is looking to get rid on an ax, I collect 'em, fix 'em, and hang 'em or use 'em. Sometimes I give them away to a happy recipient. But if it has um, should I say, sentimental value, I wouldn't want to, you know, well, sort of get in the middle of that.
(Oh, and yeah, I can see how that could go downhill in the E/R. ;D)

(And I thought my new ax had a story.)
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 16, 2019, 06:40:40 AM
I'll look for one. Good luck on the drive today. It may not get bad up northeast until the overnight. Or are you going tomorrow?
I put it off today half waiting on the weather and because I did have the parts to fix my other loader. I can buy another loader tomorrow, see how it goes for a couple days, as much as I should upgrade with going back on the boat why ? It only takes 10gal of hydraulic oil a week, run it. 😂 

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 16, 2019, 09:32:22 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on October 16, 2019, 09:24:09 PM
I've got a double bit axe over in my storage container if your looking for one of those, bought it for my 1st wife at an auction, she wanted to hang it on the wall. Somehow it was out ? I dont know how many of you guys have a woman who constantly rearranges everything ? 😂 And sitting by the closet, anyway some things happen and i chase her out of the shower naked one morning, she runs for the bed and turns the corner by the closet, LOPS her PINKY TOE OFF on the corner of this axe, i mean it's not hanging by a thread of skin 😂 explain that one in the E/R....
Barge, I have no idea how to ...... I mean um, I got nothing..... I just can't .. um. Yeah. :-[
Well, hey, if you or anyone is looking to get rid on an ax, I collect 'em, fix 'em, and hang 'em or use 'em. Sometimes I give them away to a happy recipient. But if it has um, should I say, sentimental value, I wouldn't want to, you know, well, sort of get in the middle of that.
(Oh, and yeah, I can see how that could go downhill in the E/R. ;D)

(And I thought my new ax had a story.)
I will talk to Tony, my auctioneer buddy and tell him to keep the better looking stuff, you wouldnt believe the stuff that's found sometimes. He pulls me out all the old chainsaws and 2 man saws, I can find alot of stuff sometimes. 

doc henderson

well @BargeMonkey isn't that a pain in the ax. and @Old Greenhorn the shorter handle will keep the door from hitting you in the ax on your way out... :).  I am sure I can think of a few more if you ax me real nice... :D  night gents
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: BargeMonkey on October 16, 2019, 09:43:45 PM

I will talk to Tony, my auctioneer buddy and tell him to keep the better looking stuff, you wouldnt believe the stuff that's found sometimes. He pulls me out all the old chainsaws and 2 man saws, I can find alot of stuff sometimes.
OH, I would believe it. Yeah, certainly get me on his list for ax heads, adzes, froes, draw knives, any of that good old stuff that nobody fixes when the handles break. It's good winter fun, or Sunday afternoon distractions.
 Of course, if he happens across a 390xp that is in serious need of a rebuild and you don't want it, I might be interested in that too. ;D
 Good luck with the loader today. I think it is still raining by you, rain done here but windy. A few trees down last night. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: doc henderson on October 16, 2019, 10:25:37 PM
well @BargeMonkey isn't that a pain in the ax. and @Old Greenhorn the shorter handle will keep the door from hitting you in the ax on your way out... :).  I am sure I can think of a few more if you ax me real nice... :D  night gents
Doc, my brain isn't capable of matching wits on this level. At least yet let the whole subject of severed toes and ex-wives slide right on by. :D
 I'll let you remain as the PUNdent King while I go back to processing Barge's story about that ax. There are so many conflicting and competing issues....
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Skeans1

@Old Greenhorn 
How roached of a 385/390 are you looking for?

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: Skeans1 on October 17, 2019, 09:53:22 AM
@Old Greenhorn
How roached of a 385/390 are you looking for?
Whatever I can get for really cheap and then over time make a working machine out of it. It would be a 'take your time and have some fun' project.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

BargeMonkey


Old Greenhorn

I dunno, that seems like the right message to me. ;D ;D :D :D 8)

I took that new one and put an edge on it tonight. Went out in the rain and gave a few good whacks on a log and OH MAN!. I forgot how nice it feels to swing a decent ax into some solid wood and lift out a nice raft of a chip. That was a lot nicer than I expected and the edge could still use a little work, but it is just for driving wedges and incidental cutting, still this cuts really nice.
 After that I put and edge on a real junk ax from a yard sale, that one cuts good too, but it is more like a boy's ax. Maybe for the grandson's in a couple of years? Could use a fresher handle.

 Before I found the head I finally used I had grabbed another one. WHen I went to put it back tonight I realized it is a Collins Old Timer. The head is in really good shape and the edge just needs a little extra TLC but all the original shape is there with only surface finish defects. If you are not familiar, this head is close to 4 pounds (I didn't weigh it) and shaped a lot like today's racing axes but without the fancy flutes for chip release. A really nice heavy ax and I would date it between the 30's and 50's. Next time I have an open Sunday afternoon, I think this will be my sit down job.
 I get this 'ax thing' going every couple of years. I guess it's back again. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

BargeMonkey

 The college is looking to hire someone to run the woodsmans program, they also need a "maple syrup" instructor. 😂 
 I will get the dates but I think I can get extra tickets to the competion @ the college if you wanted, in the spring sometime. 

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: BargeMonkey on October 17, 2019, 09:28:08 PM
The college is looking to hire someone to run the woodsmans program, they also need a "maple syrup" instructor. 😂
I will get the dates but I think I can get extra tickets to the competion @ the college if you wanted, in the spring sometime.
Paul Smith's? That's a little high end for me. ;D I don't think I know enough of the 'other stuff' to fill the role and I am getting kind of old, don't you think? Might be fun to catch the competition if the timing is right.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 17, 2019, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on October 17, 2019, 09:28:08 PM
The college is looking to hire someone to run the woodsmans program, they also need a "maple syrup" instructor. 😂
I will get the dates but I think I can get extra tickets to the competion @ the college if you wanted, in the spring sometime.
Paul Smith's? That's a little high end for me. ;D I don't think I know enough of the 'other stuff' to fill the role and I am getting kind of old, don't you think? Might be fun to catch the competition if the timing is right.
The Suny college by me, about 25mins from the store. 

Old Greenhorn

Well Barge that is more than generous of you to mention it to me. I had to hesitate before replying. Sounds a bit like a dream job actually. However I am certain that even though I am currently and adjunct instructor for the community college in my county I would not have all the 'things' they want on my resume'. Besides the long commute I would wonder if I could serve them with what they need. With all the skilled folks you have up your way, I bet they find someone with a good bit to offer.
 It's funny, I teach classes a few times a year in Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing, today's design skills, so to speak. The student base includes everyone from entry level up to degreed engineers with years of experience. This class was designed by a bunch of long timers in the local area to teach the things that a machinist, inspector, estimator, and engineer should have in order to do their jobs. Sadly, it is poorly, if at all covered in engineering schools these days. The class covers both theory and has a lot of hands on work so the student really understands what is going and and WHY. It is very popular and gets great reviews by students every time we run it. In spite of that, when the college needs a 'for credit' class in the same subject, they hire an instructor that has a teaching degree to teach it. Rarely has this instructor ever worked in the industry. The class has no hands on work, is all theory and the students leave with a grade, but no skills or understanding. In fact i took those classes to figure out why the students were leaving without any practical skills they could bring to the job. From that we developed this series of classes. Several local companies are requiring their people to take it in order to move up now. Yet I am not qualified to teach a 'for credit' course. Such is the state of our educational system these days. (sorry, got on a rant. I am done now.)

 I am sure your local college can find a guy or gal with the chops and skills to set up a great program, the question is, can they put up with the other stuff that goes along with it?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Texas Ranger

My friend passed and his widow asked me to help go through and move his stuff.  While going though his possibles I found this Norlumo voyagers ax.  I believe it was carried by three generations of his family on many deer and elk trips to Colorado and other locations.  The good Lord alone knows how much butchering was done with it.  I have it as a memorial to a good man and his ancestors.

 

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Walnut Beast


Old Greenhorn

Classic Hudson Bay head on what looks like about a 14" handle. The perfect work tool and that one is a beauty.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

moodnacreek

Find an ax head a little bigger and grind it down to what you want. Saw out some hickory quarter sawn handle blanks and get them drying.

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: moodnacreek on May 13, 2022, 09:07:20 PM
Find an ax head a little bigger and grind it down to what you want. Saw out some hickory quarter sawn handle blanks and get them drying.
That's a quick way to make a piece of useless metal with a lot of labor on top. A properly made ax will have a piece of tool steel welded in the front for the cutting edge (bit) and putting a grinder on that will take the life out of it or even make it go away because you can only guess where it is and how deep it goes. Putting it on a grinding wheel is a quick way to remove any ability to get a good temper in that edge. If I pick up an axe head and it shows signs of having seen a grinder I either put it back down or evaluate if it would be a good looking doorstop.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

moodnacreek

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on May 13, 2022, 09:25:55 PM
Quote from: moodnacreek on May 13, 2022, 09:07:20 PM
Find an ax head a little bigger and grind it down to what you want. Saw out some hickory quarter sawn handle blanks and get them drying.
That's a quick way to make a piece of useless metal with a lot of labor on top. A properly made ax will have a piece of tool steel welded in the front for the cutting edge (bit) and putting a grinder on that will take the life out of it or even make it go away because you can only guess where it is and how deep it goes. Putting it on a grinding wheel is a quick way to remove any ability to get a good temper in that edge. If I pick up an axe head and it shows signs of having seen a grinder I either put it back down or evaluate if it would be a good looking doorstop.
Your right and your wrong. They where ground to shape when they where made. You could weld in a piece of saw [knife] steel for a cutting edge but you are back to grinding again. There is a process , perhaps wet grinding.

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