Sawmill - Which to choose.

tpavlak · March 16, 2022, 01:26:55 PM

Hi all, first time post.

I live in SE Kansas or will, we are moving back to the family farm. I want a mill for my own use mostly. Not really worried about making money with it. We have lots to do for our selves, though I'm sure the time will come where I may sell some lumber/slabs whatever.

I have a chance to get a WoodMizer LT30 - 80s or 90 Model but its an older one for sure. Has a new 22hp Predator motor and power feed, on a trailer. seems nice and on very good working condition. Asking is 8500 - well its firm at 8500. While I understand todays market screams for folks to overprice everything...I feel that 8500 is pretty dang high for a 30 yr old mill. Especially when I can get say a Woodland Mills 30max or something for about 2k less.

Am I overthinking this? wen this is all voer and prices come back to earth will the WM hold its value? are these new mills worth their price tag?

Any thoughts would be helpful, thank you

TOm

Andries · March 16, 2022, 01:54:42 PM

Welcome to the Forum.
My LT30 was sold last fall via FB Marketplace.
It wasn't 30 minutes after I placed the ad that I got calls on it.
A guy in BC picked it up for $500 more than what your guy is asking for.
Plus, he shipped it three provinces West - trucking prices are high these days too.
You asked: Am I overthinking this? wen this is all voer and prices come back to earth will the WM hold its value? are these new mills worth their price tag?
What you're seeing today (my estimation) is the new normal. Prices, supply and delivery dates are probably not going back to pre-pandemic/Ukraine 'normals'. This isn't a stock market bump, it's more fundamental than that.
Good band mills will hold their value. Its an Uber competitive market and you really do get what you pay for. My LT30 sold for 30% more than I paid for it 12 years prior.
How strongly do I believe this? . . my mill is now an LT40.

Southside · March 16, 2022, 02:20:51 PM

Over the past two years the mill mfg have gotten further and further behind on production delivery. I have heard over 60 weeks now in some cases for a wait time. Used mills, just like used vehicles, boats, RV's, etc are holding their value more than ever before. With the cost of new going up all the time, used isn't going to go down.

Both choices you speak of are excellent mills, each has their distinct advantage over the other. More of a personal choice than anything likely.

47sawdust · March 16, 2022, 06:51:32 PM

Wood Mizer is in their 40 th year of operation.
I sleep very well at night knowing that.
I have owned a '97 LT 30 since 2010.
Excellent product,excellent customer support no buyers remorse.
I paid $8500.00 and their was a line in back of me.

Machinebuilder · March 17, 2022, 08:46:05 AM

I sort off went through this dilemma when I bought m LT15 last year.

It is also an older one 1994 I think. Not knowing what to look for, I did not realize the amount of maintenance repairs were needed.

The good thing is if you are a semi competent mechanic they are fairly simple machines. (I work on 5 axis CNC machines regularly).
The hardest thing to get right on them is the alignment, Woodmizer has a very good set of instructions on how to do this.

If you can get a used machine that isn't trashed for about 1/2 the cost of an equivalent new machine, go for it.

I think you would be happier with the Woodmizer.

blackhawk · March 17, 2022, 09:07:31 AM

Are you only considering band saw mills? Swingblades like Lucas and Peterson are an option.

tpavlak · March 17, 2022, 10:21:25 AM

I'm not really considering a swing blade, I'll have my kids help run it as well...and I feel those are just to mid-evil and unsafe.

The WM LT30 is in great shape. Thanks for the thoughts. I'm still not sure honestly, 8500 is a lot of cash given that I have enough resources (trees) tops on the ground to mill and split for firewood. We have loggers on our place now.

I guess at my old age, power feed is something I need to consider...I'd like to know if I could add power up/down but its not a deal breaker.

While I agree that this new normal will re-set itself to a higher lower end, 30 years old is still 30 years old.

tpavlak · March 17, 2022, 10:26:52 AM

Quote from: Machinebuilder on March 17, 2022, 08:46:05 AM
If you can get a used machine that isn't trashed for about 1/2 the cost of an equivalent new machine, go for it.

I think you would be happier with the Woodmizer.

@Machinebuilder
Thats the issue right...30 yr old mill for 8500...last I looked LT15START is cheaper...the LT15 is 1k more for brand new....if I stuck with WM...yes there is the wait time but is that worth it?

47sawdust · March 17, 2022, 11:45:16 AM

Not sure I understand....but that LT30 should have power feed and up/down

tpavlak · March 17, 2022, 11:56:05 AM

Quote from: 47sawdust on March 17, 2022, 11:45:16 AM
Not sure I understand....but that LT30 should have power feed and up/down

Hi, it does have Power feed however, it doe NOT have power up/down...I assume it can be added on that old of a unit?

Machinebuilder · March 17, 2022, 01:14:02 PM

I can't speak about the lt30, my Lt15 is all I know and am still in the steep part of the learning curve.

IF I were to buy a new LT15 I would get the wide version. I seems that I am always pushing the limits on cut width.
BUT I am mostly cutting big dying red oak trees. That's what I am dealing with on my property.

I'm also a firm believer in "you get what you pay for"

I'm glad I didn't spend half as much on a less solid machine.

I don't think the 30year old would bother me, its got a new engine which is the most expensive wear item.
Since it doesn't have the electronic setworks for up/down it also doesn't have that harder to repair 30 year old electronics.

with the way the up/down is built on my LT15 its not that difficult to crank, and both my shoulders are not very good.

If it makes you feel better about the price, I paid $7000 for my LT15 and spent about $1000 on maintenance repair items. Roller guides, belts, carriage bearings etc, I am planning on about $1500 to replace the engine that is getting tired. That doesn't include the blades I have bought (and ruined more than several).

Is the wait time worth it...............its your decision

blackhawk · March 17, 2022, 04:24:26 PM

Quote from: tpavlak on March 17, 2022, 10:21:25 AM
I'm not really considering a swing blade, I'll have my kids help run it as well...and I feel those are just to mid-evil and unsafe.

Ouch!!..."medieval"...excellent burn on us swingbladers.

jpassardi · March 17, 2022, 06:09:35 PM

I have to say I didn't really get the love affair with Woodmizer's until I bought mine (used). I wouldn't be afraid of it being older if you're handy. They are very good to deal with and supportive.
Good Luck

Andries · March 17, 2022, 07:04:07 PM

Quote from: 47sawdust on March 17, 2022, 11:45:16 AMNot sure I understand....but that LT30 should have power feed and up/down

Double on that comment.
It would be worthwhile to get the vin/serial number from that LT30, to ask Woodmizer what it knows about that machine. My 1992 had power feed and power up/down - and as far as I know, they all had that. WM can tell you all the options that are available to repair or upgrade that specific machine.
Also, diss-ing the swing blade community isn't cool. Neither the sawyers nor their mills are anywhere near "med-evil".

tpavlak · March 17, 2022, 09:27:20 PM

Quote from: Andries on March 17, 2022, 07:04:07 PM

Wasn't diss-ing anyone except the saw itself...I've hand hands on experience with one and there's not one ounce of me that would let my kids near it. If that's an offensive comment...so be it.

beenthere · March 17, 2022, 10:00:53 PM

Some kids should not be near running equipment of any kind.

Not the fault of the equipment which was not designed for kids.

Kids who can follow instructions should have no problem tho.

Walnut Beast · March 17, 2022, 10:51:53 PM

Quote from: beenthere on March 17, 2022, 10:00:53 PM
Some kids should not be near running equipment of any kind.

Not the fault of the equipment which was not designed for kids.

Kids who can follow instructions should have no problem tho.

Absolutely! On the Timberking Facebook group. Some guy was bragging about his kids being around his sawmill ( on the ground one) helping and jacking around in the skid steer with him and pictures of them in the skid. Well he posted a picture of his little girl at the hospital with a broken foot. WHAT A IDIOT! The dummy was having her ride on the skid on the loader and caught her foot in there.

Southside · March 17, 2022, 11:35:35 PM

At least the child endangerment case will be an easy one to prosecute. Some things don't belong on social media.

Stephen1 · March 19, 2022, 07:49:53 PM

It is a 30 YO old machine. Plan to spend money and time doing RE & RE on it. If it doesn't have hydrulics, I tell people all the time, it is less expensive to hire me for a day or 2 of sawing than it is to buy and learn and maintain a sawmill. a manual mill without hydraulics gets very tiring very quickly. There are 1000,s of machines sitting idle in lots of back yards.

Bandmill Bandit · March 20, 2022, 10:45:02 AM

I didn't catch you age BUT i started a similar journey in 2006 nd ended up wit ha LT40 that today is what i call an LT40 ALMOST Super! I was 51 at that time.

I spent about 18 months tailing every mill i could find for a day or 2 just to get familiar with the idiosyncrasies of each mill.

ALL mills make smaller straight boards (you hope) out of quite small logs (PITA) to quite large logs, sometimes too large, (biggar PITA). EVERY PITA log reduces productivity (sometimes drastically) and quality (sometimes catastrophically)

Some logs have to have extreme anomalies that will deliver one of a kind lumber pieces that are VERY valuable to make it worth sawing the log. The ability to read these log only come with experience and they don't show up often.

I had one knarly old white birch show up once that had an arrow straight trunk that was 21' ish to the 4 branch crotch. Butt was 41" cut very close to the ground and was 39" just below the crotch. Was a "yard" tree cut by a local arborist service. He wanted $500 but I offered $200 and he took that and complained a lot too. That log made me over $10,000.00 BUT its the only one that I have had that did that for me. Ive cut much smaller birch that had a LOT of center rot. This one was sound all the way through.

This is the 2nd cut of the upper log and its 20"+/- ish inside the bark at the narrow end.

NOW what has this got to do with what mill you should buy? Well that log would have been near impossible to cut in a timely and enjoyable manner without Hydraulics. Hydraulics are indispensable if you are near or over 40 and every year that goes by you double the useful value of those hydraulics.

Also as you age the Cantilever head becomes more and more of an advantage.

So it is obvious which mill I lean toward. There is only one cantilever head and it is Orange. LT40 Hydraulic is the minimum I would be looking for if I was you. You will be happier with this as your choice. Not that others won't make you happy! Just that they will contribute a lot more personal pain as you age in being able to enjoy that happiness.

Sawdust is an addiction not unlike cocaine and Jeff created this forum so us addicts would have a place of support for the good and the bad of said addiction be cause none of will ever give it up. It is fatal 100% of the time!

YOU been advised and warned! Enjoy the journey!

Iwawoodwork · March 20, 2022, 02:43:56 PM

I don't think that the $8500 is excessive if it appears to be clean and not all rusted or broken/welded cracks , etc. The cost of new bearings, roller guides and belts is not that much of a cost if you can do it yourself. If the mill does not have a power lift it will not be much work to put power on it, lots of info on this forum from the home mill builders about their lift systems. I have a 1985 mighty mite that I git for $6500 with power feed and lift 3 years ago and that was the best deal I could find back then. and like woodmiser th machine has a well built foundation so the basics should be fine, frame, saw head, pulleys, etc sounds like less than 1/2 cost of a new similar mill and you should (with good care) be able to get your money back or more when the time to sell comes.

SawyerTed · March 20, 2022, 06:02:43 PM

Given the market and how Woodmizer sawmills retain their value, $8,500 seems about right.

I don't care for Predator engines but others aren't phased by them being on machines.

rusticretreater · March 20, 2022, 07:33:42 PM

The LT30 is much stouter than anything from Woodland Mills. The current engine for the HM130max is a 14hp Kohler, so the 22hp Predator has more oomph too. The lower end saws don't have power feed or power anything. If in decent shape, $8500 is a buy it now or regret you didn't later price.

farmfromkansas · March 21, 2022, 08:58:44 AM

I used to haul logs to a guy who had a LT30 a few miles from here, his was way out of adjustment, but still made decent boards. Problem was he sawed on the inch scale instead of the 4/4 scale and the boards were mostly too thin to make a finished 3/4" board. But that was not the mill's fault. All he had to load the mill was a tractor with 3 point hitch, and a bale fork attachment, if you have a loader and forks it would be much better. These older mills like the LT30 have a much more substantial base than the lightweight cheap mills.