Chimney material selection?

Old Greenhorn · July 31, 2020, 05:43:40 PM

OK folks. Now that I am 'retired' and trying to make a supplementary income for little extras like food and such I have come to the decision that I have to put wood heat in my shop. There is oil/hot air out there but it is a 24x40 block building 2 stories high and too costly to heat with oil. Wood will allow me to at the very least keep the building reasonably warm and use the oil if needed to boost it up when things get rough. I have a stove I have been saving for just such a purpose since we left our last house/shop. 33 years is a long time, but the time has arrived. If the stove proves to be too small for this building, I will worry about that the following season and deal with it then, but it should get me through 'year 1'.
Anyway, I have thought through all the options and considered all suggestions. (we discussed this somewhere on the forum in the last 6-10 months or so, probably in an unrelated thread.) I have decided on a manufactured chimney such as I had in my last shop. This will allow me to keep the pipe run nearly vertical with just one short 20° or so jog over about 12". This allows me to get the pipe out of the top of the stove easier for cleaning. If the chimney is dead straight, I have to lift the entire chimney straight up to get the pipe out. This is what I did in my last shop and it was a mistake. (but we only lived there 6 years, so not too bad.)
So it has been over 35 years since I have put one of these in and I am wondering if there is anything new out there in the world of chimney materials before I order my stuff? I am thinking metalbestos or whatever they are calling it these days. It worked well last time. I have a truss roof of mild (average) pitch. I have to put a hole in the roof with a collar, will have about a 20-36" run through the attic space and hang a proper box between the joists to hold the chimney weight. I will probably have about 5' of material above the roof penetration point to maintain clearance to the adjacent roof within code. Just taking a guess, it will be 4-6' up or so. Last time I fabbed a couple of angled braces just to support it near the top. It just made me feel better. From the hanger box to the stove will be all black pipe. Nice and simple, and in the spring I can take it apart and slide it in the corner if I need to.
So I am looking for help or suggestions on chimney materials and or manufacturers and types of materials. Also if you know of a good source for this stuff, please pass that on too. The local suppliers here are pretty high priced and I am on a limited budget so I have to be stingy with cash these days until I strike it rich running a sawmill. ;D
I figure to get this going and ordered in a week or so after I do my final measurements and plans. Then do my prep work (clearing the area in the shop, etc.) and then I can start work the first day the weather is cool enough to get in the attic and on the roof. I am hoping this is the last chimney job I ever have to do, and I am hoping to set this up so that I can clean the chimney from inside the shop rather than up on the roof. It makes mid-season cleaning very easy.
Thanks in advance, you guys usually have some great ideas.

doc henderson · July 31, 2020, 07:10:22 PM

used to be "triple wall", now it is double wall insulated for above the support, and they make a double wall stove pipe that keeps the smoke from cooling enough to slow the draft and make creosote deposits. it is all expensive. I think I spent 500 bucks on the one for my shop. 12/5 pitch, 12 foot ceilings inside. got it from the local stove shop. I can get the brand if you want, something fab!

Old Greenhorn · July 31, 2020, 07:19:56 PM

So did you use the air insulated pipe or the heavier insulated stainless pipe. There is something in there that lets the inside stay hot, but the outside is cool. Is is heavy and not an air insulated design. I am looking at dura-tech. Still have yet to do my math and figure out the material requirements. Working on that this evening.

samandothers · July 31, 2020, 08:46:57 PM

can you come out of the back of the stove and put a T then go straight up? you may then clean from bottom of the T
Just a thought.

Old Greenhorn · July 31, 2020, 09:23:02 PM

Yeah, that's a pretty good idea and I wish I could do that. But there are two issues here. First, the stove has a top flue exit, and second, even if I did that it would put the tee opening too close to the floor and I would never get my rods up into it. I just need the jog in the chimney to allow enough flex so that I can pull the chimney out of the stove, remove the bottom section or two, and stick my rods up into it.
I did some math and measuring tonight and tried to figure out a rough parts list. But I am having trouble finding a source that I like that has what I want. But I am early in the search. I also note that a lot of these 'sellers' don't have the data sheets for the stuff they sell. I want to confirm dimensions before I buy and that seems to be a challenging right now. They also don't list phone numbers for support. I just need to find the right support and supplier, I think.

doc henderson · July 31, 2020, 10:01:05 PM

so bought elements from the same brand. the support, roof jack, storm collar, cap, and chimney parts. it has a layer that is white and I assume a type of glass wool. Our house stove pipe goes up 16 feet and were told it would draft better if the gas stayed hot and reduces condensation of the vapor containing the creosote. so we went with the double wall stove pipe.

bitternut · August 02, 2020, 08:34:00 AM

Here is what you need to connect the stove to the chimney ceiling support. No need for any pipe offset. I have a pipe like this at my camp that makes cleaning the pipe every fall very easy. Take out a couple of screws, collapse the pipe a little to remove, take it outside to brush it out. To clean the remaining pipe stick your brush in the pipe and slide a kitchen garbage bag over the brush rod and tie or tape the bag to the ceiling support. Then just brush away. The mess is contained in the bag. Reassemble the slip pipe and fire it up.

The slip joint pipe is made from 22 gage and will outlast you by a long shot. Do not use light gage stove pipe. Light gage will burn out. My pipe has been in use for over 25 years and still looks new. Don't forget to put a magnetic stove thermometer on the pipe above the stove to monitor the stove. The slip joint is not cheap but in my opinion, it is well worth every penny. You will only have to buy it once.

6" Premium Single Wall Black Telescoping Stove Pipe - 38"-70" length | WoodlandDirect.com: Chimney Pipe, Champion

Old Greenhorn · August 02, 2020, 08:57:29 AM

Yes, I saw that the other night when I was 'shopping' and figured I would go that way on this job. But I am still putting in the offset because that allows me some flexability in where the stove sits, I can move it a bit by changing the length of the offset pipe and rotating. Unlike in a house where the stove has to go where it has to go, this is in my shop with concrete walls and floor, so I have the freedom to move the location around the maximize floor space usage. I can get it closer to the wall, and the chimney is passing through the attic so I can't get very close to the wall with it. My issue right now is I cant find elbows less than 45° I would like to have the jog in the range of 20-30° so the brush bends through it easily. Not a big fan of major bends in a chimney because it hampers cleaning and draft and provides creosote collection points.
In my last shop I would just remove the bottom section of pipe and put a garbage can under it, then run the brush up. Easy peasy.
SO I am still looking for the elbows and any supplier recommendations. I would like to find one I can actually call and confirm some of the things I am buying. Not everybody provides usable drawings of their stuff. >:(

Bruno of NH · August 02, 2020, 10:04:25 AM

I don't know if you have looked.
Check FB market place there is lots of almost new metalbestus pipe and parts for sale.
Folks buying a new place and not wanting to burn wood

47sawdust · August 02, 2020, 12:54:55 PM

Old greenhorn,

Try Discount Chimney Supply, they are based out of Cincinnati. I just ordered a new 8'' Selkirk metalbestos chimney from them. They have a large inventory,answer the phone and ship quick.

Good luck,
Mick

Old Greenhorn · August 02, 2020, 01:30:21 PM

Quote from: 47sawdust on August 02, 2020, 12:54:55 PM
Old greenhorn,

Try Discount Chimney Supply, they are based out of Cincinnati. I just ordered a new 8'' Selkirk metalbestos chimney from them. They have a large inventory,answer the phone and ship quick.

Good luck,
Mick

Will do! Thank you much, that was just the kind of reference I was looking for!
8)

Old Greenhorn · August 02, 2020, 02:32:27 PM

Quote from: Bruno of NH on August 02, 2020, 10:04:25 AM
I don't know if you have looked.
Check FB market place there is lots of almost new metalbestus pipe and parts for sale.
Folks buying a new place and not wanting to burn wood

Bruno, thank you. I have been watching that for a few weeks now, but everything I find is either the wrong size or material or too much, or not worth the drive. Just last night one that was pretty close to 'just right' showed up and it had too much pipe and their asking price (fair) was about $600. more than what it would cost me for the than what it would have cost new to get the right amount of stuff. I am only gonna do this once (more), so i might as well buy new and be done with it.

Lasershark · August 03, 2020, 01:21:20 AM

Professional Chimney installer and chimneysweep present! Paying close attention to the 'clearances to combustibles' listed on the certification label when determining where the chimney will pass through the rafters will save headaches later on. You definitely would want to ensure you used an attic insulation shield as you pass through the attic. The chimney needs to be 36" higher than any combustibles within 10' (or 2" higher than the ridge.) I recommend:
Selkirk, Security or Sentinel 10" (O.D.) diameter stainless steel factory built chimney sections. Hope that helps!

Old Greenhorn · August 03, 2020, 07:03:30 AM

Quote from: Lasershark on August 03, 2020, 01:21:20 AM
Professional Chimney installer and chimneysweep present! Paying close attention to the 'clearances to combustibles' listed on the certification label when determining where the chimney will pass through the rafters will save headaches later on. You definitely would want to ensure you used an attic insulation shield as you pass through the attic. The chimney needs to be 36" higher than any combustibles within 10' (or 2" higher than the ridge.) I recommend:
Selkirk, Security or Sentinel 10" (O.D.) diameter stainless steel factory built chimney sections. Hope that helps!

Thanks for checking in on this to keep me honest. ;D
Yes, I am familiar with the code and the design exceeds all the requirements including the insulation shield, except one point you mentioned. I checked the standards here in the states and they all show the top must be 2' above anything within 10' or 2' above the peak. You are saying 3' (or 2"? above the peak) and I can't find that anywhere. Could this be a difference between the Canadian and US codes? My plan is to put the top 2' above the peak which will be just about 8' from the chimney, so it exceeds either way.
I am matching the stove size, which I still need to double check, but I am pretty sure it is 6" so the pipe will have that ID and I think about an 8"OD, probably Selkirk. The roof trusses are 24" so I will frame it down to 16" to take their common install kits.