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Author Topic: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.  (Read 1660 times)

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Offline Jim1934

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Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« on: June 01, 2021, 08:54:09 PM »
Hi- I want to convert the carriage feed on my old circle saw mill
to hydraulics. I need to run the motor in one direction to cut and the other
direction to gig. Will use lever operated 4 way valve.
My problem: I get conflicting info on whether the motor rotation can be changed by
merely changing the pressure line (via control valve) from one motor port to the other.
A call to a manufacturer indicated this can be done as the motors are bi directional and reversible.
However that company has a video that shows a BMPH  motor being disassembled and changed to use it in a
different rotation. Motor is a "Dynamic" BMPH series.

Can someone who is actually doing this help? Thanks, Jim

Update June 7-21. Have decided to put hyd. on hold and try a smaller dia. cable drum.
Eight in. dia vs original 18. Some question in my mind if 1/2 " wire rope will have enough friction with 5 turns.
Thanks. Jim

Online Southside

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2021, 09:00:31 PM »
Calling our resident hydraulic specialist @mike_belben 
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White Oak Meadows

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2021, 09:14:25 PM »
Im not really that good but i can try to help.  I have more questions than answers for now.  

1. Does your mill HAVE this hydraulic motor on it or are you adding it on?  

2. And what is gigging?  To me thats spearing frogs at night.


I downloaded a pdf on those motors and see its some sort of gearoller with a double splined wobble shaft and fancy stuff inside, i have no experience with them.


If it is a bi-rotational fixed displacement motor then i expect reversing the A and B work ports will reverse shaft rotation without any issue.

3. Do you already have the valve youre going to use?
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2021, 10:02:05 PM »
Thought gig was returning the cart/carriage in order to be loaded. Sorry
No motor on the mill now. Will be adding one.
I do not have valve.
Think all are bidirectional or reversible- But not sure this can be done just by changing
which port is pressurized. Suspect its one direction until you disassemble and change internals.
that is the queation. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2021, 10:45:06 PM »
No, just switch the flow direction, almost like a cylinder. In A then out B or in B then out A. 


 You want a 3 position spring centered valve to make the motor run clockwise, counterclockwise and park when you let off the handle.  Spring center will auto return to park if you let go.  And you dont want any detents in my opinion. 

  I dont know if a "motor spool" is a good idea or not.  The neutral position would freewheel and allow the carriage to drift and over run at the end of travel.  I suspect a better setup might be to use a cylinder spool with relief valves in the work ports to prevent banging when you get to the end and let the valve return to center or shift to return home.  


Let me know if i need to clarify any of that. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Iwawoodwork

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2021, 11:43:32 PM »
Mike is right on , you do the forward-reverse of your carriage drive motor  just by the one correct control valve. That is how my Mighty Mite mill forward and reverse works, only instead of a cable drum it has a sprocket and chain. 

Offline tacks Y

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2021, 07:18:59 AM »
Do you already have the motor? A gear motor would work this way.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2021, 07:24:02 AM »
Im not really that good but i can try to help.  I have more questions than answers for now.  

1. Does your mill HAVE this hydraulic motor on it or are you adding it on?  

2. And what is gigging?  To me thats spearing frogs at night.


I downloaded a pdf on those motors and see its some sort of gearoller with a double splined wobble shaft and fancy stuff inside, i have no experience with them.


If it is a bi-rotational fixed displacement motor then i expect reversing the A and B work ports will reverse shaft rotation without any issue.

3. Do you already have the valve youre going to use?

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2021, 07:29:38 AM »
I don't know if it's because your young or because your form Mass.   On a sawmill carriage going into the log is called crowding and backing up is called gigging or gigging back.  At some point in history sawyers allowed frog spearman to use their term :D.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2021, 07:33:14 AM »
Thought gig was returning the cart/carriage in order to be loaded. Sorry
It might be, i just didnt know.  Im not a sawyer.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2021, 07:35:26 AM »
I don't know if it's because your young or because your form Mass.   On a sawmill carriage going into the log is called crowding and backing up is called gigging or gigging back.  At some point in history sawyers allowed frog spearman to use their term :D.
10-4 doug. Thanks.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Machinebuilder

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2021, 09:16:44 AM »
I think that motor is not bidirectional. When ordering there is a special order option for reverse direction.

to be sure call the tech support line and ask before purchasing one.

There are many other hydraulic motors that are bidirectional.

For the valve I think you want a 3 position spring return to center, A to B center valve. this would allow free wheeling in the center position.


I'm not an expert on hydraulic motors but do a lot of industrial hydraulic work.
Dave, Woodmizer LT15, Husqvarna 465 and 435, Bobcat 751, David Brown 770

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2021, 10:16:36 AM »
Yes, you NEED a bi-directional motor. 


Having never run a circle mill i dont know if its better to let the carriage over run or not.  
Isaiah 63:10

Online PoginyHill

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2021, 10:24:43 AM »
Good point, Mike. I think you'd want ports A & B to be closed, not open, so that the carriage would stop when in the neutral position. Open center for working ports is great for a winch, maybe no so good for a saw carriage.
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Offline sealark37

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2021, 10:49:18 AM »
Call "The Surplus Center".  Tell them what you want to do, and they will help you with the motor and the valve.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2021, 10:54:39 AM »
Daft question, isn't it possible to find a whole hydraulic carriage winch on craigslist or ebay ? Or dafter even, a tower crane's winch?
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Machinebuilder

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2021, 11:14:31 AM »
ya'll may have a good point o the valve center, I know almost nothing about circle mills.

Dave, Woodmizer LT15, Husqvarna 465 and 435, Bobcat 751, David Brown 770

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2021, 12:31:18 PM »
I wish I knew more about this subject. The hyd. motors I run are on conveyers and they reverse through motor spool valves. A sawmill carriage takes a serious jolt every time you gig back. You also use the feed for a brake constantly. The old belt or friction feeds are slipping all the time. On a commercial sawmill the hyd. feeds start out at 50 h.p. So a small hyd. feed must be heavy enough and be cushioned somehow or it will surely break.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2021, 12:40:00 PM »
Does your sawmill carriage winches look like this in the us?

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/1137281049.htm?ac=206978287

It would may be, be too expensive to import one from this side of the pond. But there should be some somewhere laying around in the US.

Leboncoin, is a kind of equivalent of craigslist.  (it means the good corner) It covers all of France. And most of other european states have a sequel of this website.
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2021, 03:37:48 PM »
I dont have a lot of hands on experience with cushion valves but i think thats whats needed here to dampen the shock of stopping the carriage and log inertia at the end of the pass without carnage.

  A cylinder spool center with adjustable cushion valve to burp off the high psi jolt back to tank but not allow drift or over run like a motor center.  

Isaiah 63:10


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