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The dirtwork thread

Started by mike_belben, June 04, 2021, 11:37:41 AM

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mike_belben

Creating this so as not to derail a fescue thread. Please everyone feel free to use this as a catch-all for anything to do with dirtwork.  Questions or answers, sharing your projects... whatever.  Roadbuilding, gravel, drainage, septic, ponds, construction pads etc etc.  If a shovel or hoe was used in any way (manual or hydraulic) then it fits here.


Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Quote from: btulloh on June 04, 2021, 11:12:15 AM
What's your favorite recipe for a gravel parking lot?  I'm going to be doing one next year and I want it turn good.  I see some interesting info on enzyme additives for improving road bases and parking lots but so far I haven't talked to any contractors around here that have even heard of it, much less used it.
Here is the original post. I will dig up some good example pics when i get a chance
Praise The Lord

Tom King

I just built this drag to topdress a couple of acres with topsoil.  Dragging it on growing grass, it doesn't harm it a bit, and won't even top Dandelions (was hoping it would).

It's 6-1/2 feet wide, and 12 feet long.  I've seen shorter ones, but I figured longer would level out low spots better.  It's built from four 20' lengths of 3x3x3/16 angle iron.  I could have gone to 4x4x1/4.  

The cross angles are tipped up at the front the thickness of a regular 3/8 washer, whatever that is, so it won't dig in.

For a guesswork prototype, with no drawings, it works pretty good.  I already had the utility lift, and just added some longer arms, and diagonal braces.  It not only fills low spots, but I can use it to build up an area with good topsoil too.



 

 

 

 

 

HemlockKing

Looks like good lake frontage. I like what's going on with those dock houses/lounges.
A1

Tom King

All those are boathouses, and have boat lifts in them.  This lake is maintained within one foot, so all the docks are on pilings.

I had all the Pine trees taken off our point, and lost what little poor topsoil was on it, in the process.

We have a place we've been letting four subdivisions dump leaves for forty years, and have dumped stall cleanings too.  It's full of worms.  I'm waiting on an excavator to come pile it up, so I can get someone else to come with a screen.  I intend to level a couple of inches of that great topsoil on this two acre point, so I can get grass to grow. It's bigger than it looks in this picture.  You can see the hard, poor ground in the first picture with the drag behind the tractor.  That's what I built that drag for.

That cove with the hole filled in is at the bottom of the hill, to the left, in front of the house.


 

We plan to rent it for special events, like weddings.

That little brick building has four restrooms in it.


Southside

Geotech is your friend.  Nobody around here uses it or ever head of it - just buy more 57's and let them push down through the clay is all I was told in these parts.  Growing up it was like Christmas when the paper mill would change the felt.  Everybody was getting a new driveway, walkway, etc after that.  

During spring breakup I have watched loaded log trucks and massive wheel loaders running on a foot of shale that was over a layer of Geotech, in the middle of cedar swamp ground.  The whole road would wave up and down, but the tires would not leave so much as an imprint.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Bruno of NH

Quote from: Southside on June 04, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
Geotech is your friend.  Nobody around here uses it or ever head of it - just buy more 57's and let them push down through the clay is all I was told in these parts.  Growing up it was like Christmas when the paper mill would change the felt.  Everybody was getting a new driveway, walkway, etc after that.  

During spring breakup I have watched loaded log trucks and massive wheel loaders running on a foot of shale that was over a layer of Geotech, in the middle of cedar swamp ground.  The whole road would wave up and down, but the tires would not leave so much as an imprint.  
I have seen the same thing with the road fabric.
Lay it down over the wet area or swamp add 2 " crusher run and drive anything over it.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

alan gage

The only dirt work contribution I have is to not be afraid to rent a Harley Rake. My yard was an absolute mess after building my wood shop a couple years ago. I used the skidloader bucket to move all the dirt back and roughly grade it (rough being the key word) but it was still a mess with lots of high/low spots, rocks, sticks, and clods. There were existing slopes as well as a pretty big slope where the building grade needed to drop down to the rest of the lawn. Even with the Harley Rake I expected a long full day of moving dirt around with a shovel and raking it smooth.

I was shocked how good of a job the Harley Rake did and 2 hours later I was on the way back to the rental place to drop it off. The only reason to pick up the shovel was to scoop up the rocks and sticks it separated and deposited at the end of each run. Broke up all the clods and left a nice surface ready to seed. It was like magic.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

SwampDonkey

I've seen it used on the university woodlot. It's heavy clay on top of sandstone there. One April after snow melt I was walking out one of the roads and it moved under your feet when someone drove bye. :D  Never use the stuff unless on a well maintained forest road. Most others, not a chance. Most of the time in the area I work there is so much rock and sand you don't need it. I was on a block this week with water filled ditches like a mote, dead standing, road was solid as concrete. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

A pallet drag works good behind a 4-wheeler or SxS. I levelled 16 loads of screened loam last week with one. I put 40 lbs on the pallet with a strapped on tire and rocks in the rim. A hardwood pallet will take a lot of abuse. I shoved piles around with the tractor first then had fun. ;D  It don't hurt the grass either, just looks mowed. ;)  My ground was not all flat, some was up and over a drain field, a really big one. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

This is about a quarter of the area around the drain field. That starts flat then rolls down over toward them trees.





This is between the house and shop foundation. There is another area more than twice this size around the garage. Then around to the left behind the house an area about same size.





Grass is germinating, but the area around the garage not shown is ahead of this, easier to see the green. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: Bruno of NH on June 04, 2021, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: Southside on June 04, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
Geotech is your friend.  Nobody around here uses it or ever head of it - just buy more 57's and let them push down through the clay is all I was told in these parts.  Growing up it was like Christmas when the paper mill would change the felt.  Everybody was getting a new driveway, walkway, etc after that.  

During spring breakup I have watched loaded log trucks and massive wheel loaders running on a foot of shale that was over a layer of Geotech, in the middle of cedar swamp ground.  The whole road would wave up and down, but the tires would not leave so much as an imprint.  
I have seen the same thing with the road fabric.
Lay it down over the wet area or swamp add 2 " crusher run and drive anything over it.
Add me as another proponent of geotech. I have seen the work Barge does with the stuff on his working roads and also some demo roads done by others.  Amazing stuff when used properly. As am aside it also makes a good cover for mushroom logs letting the rain in but keeping the sun out.  :laugh:
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

snowmountain

 

 This was a messy little corner I've been intending to fix for a while. Stumped out some small trees and multi flora rose bushes. Cut a road to access an area I have trouble getting to.
Jack

barbender

Geotex definitely helps, but I remember installing it over really squishy ground and getting what we called "fabric hemorrhoids" where the pressure from trucks going over it would cause a bubble up and burst situation😂
Too many irons in the fire

woodroe

Where to start, all in the  last few weeks ,350' driveway needed to be built back up after 15 yrs of neglect so
had 12 yds 1 1/2" crushed gravel delivered and with my new to me 35hp 4x4 Kubota w FEL, spread that for a rough base material then had delivered 12 yds of 3/4" crushed gravel and spread that over the new base for a smooth finish.
It all compacted very well. Had 6 yds of 3/4" stone delivered for the top 50' of the drive to cut down on
tracking in the grit.
Was able to back drag the gravel in float mode for very decent results.
Now working my main woods rd 500' behind house, 8" culvert bought from thecfarm here on the forum placed in the bottom of ravine muck hole . Very good tough culvert BTW.  
Had to haul in about 4 buckets of rock prior to placing the culvert
to stop the sucking sounds.
Placed some 3/4" crushed gravel on top the rocks for a culvert bed. Now have a 14'
culvert topped with 1/1/2" crushed gravel . Turned out very nice, drove my f 150 over it the other day. Nice to be able to access the property without getting mired in mud.
Next job is 24' bridge approaches. Need to build up about 20" on both ends of bridge.
Running low on gravel so thinking about laying some logs in there then topping with gravel.
Doesn't have to be permanent, getting old.
Skidding firewood with a kubota L3300.

Patrick NC

Quote from: mike_belben on June 04, 2021, 11:44:08 AM
Quote from: btulloh on June 04, 2021, 11:12:15 AM
What's your favorite recipe for a gravel parking lot?  I'm going to be doing one next year and I want it turn good.  I see some interesting info on enzyme additives for improving road bases and parking lots but so far I haven't talked to any contractors around here that have even heard of it, much less used it.
Here is the original post. I will dig up some good example pics when i get a chance
There are 3 key components to any parking lot or road. Stable subgrade, aggregate base, and wear surface. I've been operating heavy equipment and grading job sites for almost 30 years now and I've seen lots of examples of how it should and shouldn't be done. For the past 15 years I've been a foreman and motor grader operator preparing subgrade and setting up stone base for asphalt paving. There are a lot of variables involved in building a gravel lot such as how heavy the vehicles using it and traffic volume that will be a factor in how you build it, but basically it's all about starting with a solid base. Ideally you would strip off all topsoil and organics to prepare for grading the site. Next step is grade the area so it will have positive drainage. The biggest enemy to any parking lot or road is standing water. Now you choose what you want for an aggregate base. You need something that can be compacted to be impermeable to water. Here in North Carolina our quarries call it ABC stone or crusher run. Basically it's 1.5"- stone with a lot of fine pieces and rock dust in it. Or if you are fortunate enough to be near an asphalt paving company that's milling and paving a road you can buy ground up asphalt to use as a base. Either way, spread the material to the desired thickness and compact. If you're using ABC stone, you will need to use a good bit of water when you compact it. The water helps push the air out of the voids in the stone base and when done properly will produce a slurry on top similar to when you finish concrete. This slurry will dry after a day or so in the sun and seal the stone base so water won't soak into it in the future. Once dry, you can topdress with small washed stone for a wear surface. 1.5" or smaller.  
Edit: All compaction should be done with a vibratory smooth drum roller for best results. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

Patrick NC

Quote from: barbender on June 04, 2021, 07:41:37 PM
Geotex definitely helps, but I remember installing it over really squishy ground and getting what we called "fabric hemorrhoids" where the pressure from trucks going over it would cause a bubble up and burst situation😂
That can be prevented ba using geogrid, not fabric if you are covering it with stone. Fabric is made for using dirt over it and geogrid is used when using stone. A good quality geogrid such as Tenstar 1100 with a minimum of 12" of stone/ gravel over it will bridge over some pretty nasty ground. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

btulloh

Good info Patrick.  Thanks.  I need to find a local contractor with your level of experience when I build this thing.  Good info on the geogrid vs fabric.  This will be built in a dry area, not a bog.  Subsoil is mainly clay with a little sand so it makes a pretty good base after removing the topsoil.  I have quarries and asphalt plants close by, so proper materials are easy to get.  Main thing is to get a good contractor.

This isn't really a parking lot I'm putting in, it's a yard for shuffling equipment and attachments, as well lumber on pallets and general shuffling around.  It's going to be along one side of a new building (probably Morton) and the yard will be somewhere around 20k sq ft. 

What's the minimum fall on the grade for something like this?  It needs to be almost level I think, but have enough fall to shed the water.
HM126

btulloh

Some interesting things already getting posted in this thread.  I like Tom King's drag for finishing topsoil.  Looks like a good way to finish off.
HM126

btulloh

Patrick, do you know anything about these enzyme additives that improve base material?

TerraZyme - Natural Ezyme for Drying and Stabilizing Soil

Hard roads, easy fix | Agweek

This stuff looks very interesting, but I've never talked to a contractor that's even heard of it.
HM126

Patrick NC

Quote from: btulloh on June 05, 2021, 08:35:06 AM
Good info Patrick.  Thanks.  I need to find a local contractor with your level of experience when I build this thing.  Good info on the geogrid vs fabric.  This will be built in a dry area, not a bog.  Subsoil is mainly clay with a little sand so it makes a pretty good base after removing the topsoil.  I have quarries and asphalt plants close by, so proper materials are easy to get.  Main thing is to get a good contractor.

This isn't really a parking lot I'm putting in, it's a yard for shuffling equipment and attachments, as well lumber on pallets and general shuffling around.  It's going to be along one side of a new building (probably Morton) and the yard will be somewhere around 20k sq ft.

What's the minimum fall on the grade for something like this?  It needs to be almost level I think, but have enough fall to shed the water.
Minimum fall should be about 2%. Thats 1/4" per foot. If your grading contractor is really good, you might get away with 1.5% but that's pretty flat. 2% is what the crown is in most paved roads. So the travel lane that you drive on slopes towards the ditch at 1/4" per foot on most roads. 
For a lot such as you are describing I'd use either 8" of ABC stone or 6" of ground asphalt. My preference is the asphalt. The heat of the sun will activate the liquid asphalt in the material and the more you drive on it, the harder it will get. Great stuff. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

Patrick NC

Quote from: btulloh on June 05, 2021, 08:56:21 AM
Patrick, do you know anything about these enzyme additives that improve base material?

TerraZyme - Natural Ezyme for Drying and Stabilizing Soil

Hard roads, easy fix | Agweek

This stuff looks very interesting, but I've never talked to a contractor that's even heard of it.
We do a lot of soil stabilization but mostly use cement or lime. We tried a similar product about a year ago and it worked well, but the cost was about the same as using cement. You only have to use about 1/3 the amount per square yard, but the cost of the material was about 3x more. So it was about the same either way. You will come out a lot cheaper and have just as good of a finished product by preparing a good subgrade and covering it with ground asphalt. You would only need to use a soil stabilization product if you're ground is really wet  or has other issues such as lightweight dirt or very high plasticity. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

barbender

Patrick, it's been over 10 years since I was in the dirt work game. As far as I know, the fabric was all we had available to us at the time. I've only started seeing the geogrid product since that time.
Too many irons in the fire

Patrick NC

Quote from: barbender on June 05, 2021, 12:01:32 PM
Patrick, it's been over 10 years since I was in the dirt work game. As far as I know, the fabric was all we had available to us at the time. I've only started seeing the geogrid product since that time.
Your right about that. The first time I used geogrid was about 2010 or so.  We never liked using the fabric under stone because of the exact thing you are taking about. Usually it was better to undercut all the unsuitable material and fill back with a good fill material. The fabric was mostly for temporary roads or construction entrances where the cost of undercutting and filling wasn't justified. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

blackfoot griz

Quote from: alan gage on June 04, 2021, 05:32:06 PM
The only dirt work contribution I have is to not be afraid to rent a Harley Rake. My yard was an absolute mess after building my wood shop a couple years ago. I used the skidloader bucket to move all the dirt back and roughly grade it (rough being the key word) but it was still a mess with lots of high/low spots, rocks, sticks, and clods. There were existing slopes as well as a pretty big slope where the building grade needed to drop down to the rest of the lawn. Even with the Harley Rake I expected a long full day of moving dirt around with a shovel and raking it smooth.

I was shocked how good of a job the Harley Rake did and 2 hours later I was on the way back to the rental place to drop it off. The only reason to pick up the shovel was to scoop up the rocks and sticks it separated and deposited at the end of each run. Broke up all the clods and left a nice surface ready to seed. It was like magic.

Alan
I agree with you on the Harley rake. They are amazing tools. If renting one, I highly recommend getting a tracked skidsteer versus a wheeled version if possible.

What I don't recommend is snapping off the pressure relief valve on your underground propane tank like I did to mine. That was not fun!

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