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Author Topic: Continual post treatment?  (Read 468 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Continual post treatment?
« on: June 17, 2021, 11:30:52 AM »
Have any of you ever tried or heard of attempts to refreshen the treatments on below grade posts and piles by pre drilling small holes in order to inject continual future treatments?   

Im thinking one central axis bore hole and several crossdrillings that intersect it like oil feed galleys in a block.  1/4" diameter or so. Then plug the below grade holes with asphalt so whatever is put in the above grade "filler hole" doesnt leach out to the soil. 


I dont know all the details but im getting pretty good at composting wood quickly.  So my little curious brain reckons preserving wood must be the opposite right?  I figure rot is a case of microbes, mushrooms, fungus, bacteria or insect damage and they can all be prevented with altering the pallatability of wood for those various things.  Change the moisture content, change the PH.. Saturate it in poison etc etc.  

If small bore holes were in place treatments could be periodically refreshed, right?  Anyone heard of such a practice?


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Online btulloh

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 11:46:47 AM »
Interesting concept. 
HM126

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2021, 11:54:09 AM »
Im thinking vinegar.  Fungus/mold and some bacteria, and ants die in it. 

:shrug:
Proverbs 19:11

Online LeeB

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2021, 02:17:48 PM »
I believe that was done with telephone poles in the past. I think there is a post or two about it on here somewhere.
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Online Don P

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2021, 04:48:14 PM »
Yup google remedial utility pole treatment. One report on borates is from the USFPL there are many... many others. One interesting concept is the post protectors with borate, it breaks the connection to the boron "sink" provided by the soil.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2021, 09:42:50 AM »
i think im gonna set boy up drilling some holes and testing some red maple or hickory posts, buried in a compost and punky wood lined hole. should keep him busy for about 3 minutes before he abandons it and harasses me for the next activity.  ;D
Proverbs 19:11

Offline barbender

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2021, 10:22:18 AM »
There is (or was at least) a borate product that you drilled holes and put plugs of it in, it would slowly leach out and diffuse into the wood.
Too many irons in the fire

Online Don P

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2021, 06:47:43 PM »
Cobra rods was one brand I used, log home supply companies sold them. I'm not sure I'm a believer, not that it matters  :D. There was also a borate paste in a caulking tube, and the phone company had some borate diapers for poles.
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester

Offline barbender

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2021, 08:23:03 PM »
Yep those are the ones I'm remembering, Don. I never used them, but my borate experience wouldn't put much hope in them either. Borates work great if the wood is in a spot where they can't be rinsed or diffused out- which a post definitely is not. 
Too many irons in the fire

Online Don P

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2021, 08:53:01 PM »
I felt that by the time those dissolved and diffused into the wood the rot would already be well underway. I used them on porch support posts that were up on standoffs but in an area subject to wetting the base of the red pine posts. I suspect the wood was readily dried after wetting and never got wet enough to dissolve the rods. I would have preferred to simply soak the posts in solution first.

Many people think borate rinses off, not so. it diffuses in when the cell is above the fiber saturation point.. it is diffusing from an area of high concentration to one of low concentration when there is free water in the cells. To diffuse out the cell must again be saturated and there must be something wet of lower concentration for the higher concentration of the wood to diffuse to. A saturated post in damp ground fits that bill. The RTA did a study and railway ties on ballast rock still had a good concentration and were serviceable, I believe 25 years after install. A bankrupt subdivision that had some frames of borated lumber sat exposed to the weather for several years. They checked the framing and although there had been loss the concentration was still high enough to provide protection. I'm just pointing out that the notion that a few rains will rinse it off is inaccurate. How deep is a rain going to get the wood to saturation, and then the higher concentration towards the core is going to diffuse to the zone being depleted by the low concentration rain. It is mobile but not to casual wetting, multiple monsoon seasons or where it is buried in the earth, sure. I've wondered about a heavy trash bag over the post end with a healthy solution/paste in the bag, just marinate it in the juice.

The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester

Offline Blue Noser

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2021, 08:07:06 AM »
This is a standard practice here in Nova Scotia on transmission lines in our electrical grid. A hole approx 1" in diamter is drilled into the base of the pole at a downward angle, treatment applied, a wooden cork is used to plug the hole, and the pole is marked with a metal tag indicating the year of treatment. 

I'm not aware of what is used for treatment chemicals, but I'll hazard a guess it's something strong.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2021, 03:04:38 PM »
This one has a zone chart and suvival rate table.  The SE and PNW are pretty hard on poles. I think the high avg temp and high moisture are why. Rapid composting action.  

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Quote
Decay fungi require four elements in order to cause damage: air, water, a favorable temperature, and food (in this case, the wood pole).  These four elements are most prevalent from the groundline to 18 inches below groundline (in most cases, air becomes a limited factor at deeper depths). As a result, this area is highly susceptible to decay.


From here out i will set important scructural poles in a screeded/agitated clay soup mix .  That pretty much eliminates air once dry.  If weeds cant grow in it for lack of porosity and oxygen,  fungus probably cant either.  Be a pain to do in lifts but be a lot worse to jack up a barn for pole repair like my brothers been working on for years.
Proverbs 19:11

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Continual post treatment?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2021, 08:39:51 AM »
The new problem here is that termites attack locust that is in contact with the ground. I have lost 8x8 in 7 years so I have been boring 1" holes at a steep angle and pouring dot in on the remaining posts. I am hoping that this will save the hearts.


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