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Diesel effect on belts

Started by arky217, January 21, 2023, 10:18:29 AM

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arky217

I have a Norwood LM29 mill and I mill about 95% SYP.
The SYP makes for a lot of sap to deal with sticking to the band.

I recently switched from soapy water to diesel for the band lube.
The diesel seems to do a better job of keeping the band clean,
however, I am somewhat concerned about any deterioration it
might have on the belts.

The mill has the original drive belt, but I
have replaced the idle belt with a urethane belt.

Has anyone had a problem with diesel having a negative effect
on the belts ?
Arky217

Southside

The amount of diesel you need to use is so minimal there is no effect. You should not be able to smell the fuel it's that small of a volume.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

beamer

I have been wondering about this myself, as a new saw mill owner with a woodland mills 122 with there instructions to NOT use it, researching, watching you tube viddys there seems to be a lot of folks who do, thanks for asking can we hear more from the experienced. :)

thecfarm

And even if you had to replace the belts yearly, would the diesel be worth it?
I use diesel, but I don't saw much. Some of you saw in a month what I have sawed in 10 years.
I only use a slow and I mean slow drip. Don't take much to keep the blade clean.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

MattM

I've been using Diesel for a few years now and haven't noticed any effect on the belts. I used to cut my main belt in half at least once a year when to much sap would build up and it would throw the blade. Since switching to diesel I haven't had to change the belt at all. I use 1 drip ever 2 seconds usually. If I'm in a heavy pitch log I might have to increase that to 1 drip every second.

One thing that always gets to me about the whole diesel/soapy water debate is that everybody switches from soapy water to diesel and loves it. You never hear of anyone ever switching from diesel to soapy water though.....there's a reason for that.

Some points about using Diesel:
1. It's a heck of alot cheaper to use diesel than windshield wash/any type of soapy water mix. Anyone that says it's not, even at today's diesel prices, is using wayyyy to much diesel.
2. Don't have to worry about freezing in the winter time.
3. Less thrown blades. With little or no sap buildup the only time you'll probably throw a blade is if your using to much diesel and it slips off.
4. You no longer have to change your far side guide bearings every couple of weeks due to soapy water ruining them.

As to woodland mills saying don't use it.... Of course they're going to say that, no company is going to tell their customers to use anything that might not be considered 'bad for the environment ' this day and age.

Edit:
Something else that just came to mind is that 1ml of diesel is approx  20 drops or 40 seconds of use. That means you get about 11hours of straight sawing per litre of diesel. Even at 2$ CAD per litre that's a huge savings especially in winter vs paying 4$ for 4 litres of windshield wash which would last about 30-60 minutes depending on how conservative you are with it.
LT35HDG25

JoshNZ

I used it from day one and never had an issue with belts, I couldn't even tell you what kind of belts they are other than they're about $10US each from the tractor store at the bottom of the road and I've replaced them once in the last 3-4 years, so who cares if it was due to diesel hah!

Patrick NC

I used to be in yhe soapy water camp until recently.  I got an atv windshield washer tank and pump to spray diesel when needed.  I sawed SYP all day today. No drip, just a little spray occasionally when pitch started building up. Probably one second spray every 3 or 4 cuts. Used a cup or so of diesel for 1200BF of 1x6s. No noticeable effect on belts yet. Roller guides are much quieter though.  
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

Durf700

I converted my water drip system from wood-mizer to diesel drip with sight valve.  I purchased some automotive fuel line, ran the line from the water jug to site glass, and then to the steel line that drips on bands.  what a difference.  like others have said.. if your sawing pine , the amount of water/pine sol or whatever your using is huge vs a diesel drip.  I could not be happier with it.  the drip valve allows you to be very precise on how much diesel your putting on the band with the site window.  I replaced my belts last year.  the mill was used when I purchased it and probably had 50 hours on the belts.. I put about 200 hours more on them before they started to cause the bands to jump off.  switched them out, have about 100 hours on the new belts and they look good. 




YellowHammer

My Lubemizer is too fast, I can't turn it down enough, so sometimes I'll just shut it off for a few boards, then when I start hearing the band change tone, I'll switch it back on.

The key, as others have said, is to use just the bare minimum.  If you can smell it, see it, etc then way too much.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

esteadle

> Has anyone had a problem with diesel having a negative effect on the belts ?

Yep.

esteadle

Quote from: MattM on January 21, 2023, 12:24:41 PMYou never hear of anyone ever switching from diesel to soapy water though.....there's a reason for that.
I stopped using diesel and went to soapy water about 12 years ago. I did that. 1 data point.


Patrick NC

Don't know if it makes any difference,  but you can buy belts that are oil resistant. Surely that would help.
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

Nebraska

Gates brand seem to hold up reasonably well to it..

Beavertooth

My lubemizer was to fast like Roberts but I started putting used hydraulic oil in my diesel ( at least 1 gallon to 4 gallons of diesel sometimes more)  and that makes it thicker slower and slicker. Which is all a plus.  Only time I use water is if I am sawing something real dry and I want more lube than I want to put diesel on it. 
2007 LT70 Remote Station 62hp cat.

fluidpowerpro

Quote from: esteadle on January 23, 2023, 07:05:49 PM
Quote from: MattM on January 21, 2023, 12:24:41 PMYou never hear of anyone ever switching from diesel to soapy water though.....there's a reason for that.
I stopped using diesel and went to soapy water about 12 years ago. I did that. 1 data point.
I've never used diesel because, so far, water and pine sol have worked good for me.
Your the first person I ever heard of switching from diesel to water/soap.
I'm curious as to what drove your decision to do that?
Change is hard....
Especially when a jar full of it falls off the top shelf and hits your head!

YellowHammer

From a chemistry standpoint, butyl (most cheap black) rubber will absorb oils and will swell, making them softer and less wear resistant.  It's one of the reasons that certain O ring fitting and other rubber seals will use butyl rubber as a composition because the O rings will swell and seal better.  It's also the reason that Viton and some other compositions are used, because they don't swell with oils.

When I first started using diesel, I kept hearing a "slap, slap, slap" and my band wheel belts had swelled enough that they grew in length and where hitting the sheet metal.  They still worked, but it was aggravating.  So I took them off, hung them up for a couple weeks, and as the oils dry out of the rubber, the belts shrunk back down to original size and I reused them.

Also I fill my lube tank from a hole in the top and the sloshing has wet my butyl rubber bungee cord and it was swelled enough that it won't hold tension anymore, but it's fine because all I have to do I is ignore it.

I also used to smell it all over my hands when I was handling the boards.

Now, I use so little, my belts don't swell up, and I can't smell it on my hands.  I will try the used hydraulic fluid to reduce it even more.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

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