starting out

[Woolywolf]

I have a question for consulting foresters (or anyone who is doing their own thing for that matter, whether it be running your own sawmill, logging operation, etc.): how did you get started with your business?  Did you hit the ground running right out of college and start up your own consulting operation, or did you gain some experience working for someone else and later decide to venture out on your own?  I bet it varies from forester to forester, but I would be interested in hearing how people got started out--any pitfalls, surprises, struggles you had in starting your own business.  I have the long term goal of doing my own consulting, but after I graduate I think I'd like to gain some experience working for someone before I venture out on my own.  I've noticed that many consulting foresters are licsenced realtors too--how helpful is that in terms of business?  Anyway, I look forward to hearing about your experiences--failures  :'( and successes  ;D

           

[WDH]

I am not a consultant.  However, I have worked in the Forest Industry for 30 years, and I have worked with a lot of foresters, loggers, and consultants.  It has been my experience that new foresters right out of school that set themselves up as consultants generally have a very rough go of it or not make it.  Having established yourself as an experienced forester working with the State, a Wood Supplier, a Mill, a logger, or a Timberland Management organization is important to gain credibility.  Not just credibility with your landowner clients, but credibility with all the other players like the loggers, wood suppliers, and buying mills.  You MUST establish good working relationships with the people that buy, harvest, and deliver the wood from the clients that you represent.  That takes time and proven experience to do.

I am not saying that you cannot be a successful consultant with no prior experience right out of school.  But, I believe that in these times of stress in the forestry business, the probability of failure is high.  I know several consultants (some of them friends that I have worked with for years) that are struggling and they had experience.  Without experience, the deck is even more stacked against you.

[Ron Wenrich]

I had experience at the mill level before I tried any consulting.  My experience included that as a choker setter in logging, board stacker, equipment operator and log scaler.  Then I started to do procurement forestry.

When I went into business, I had a partner that had 1 year more experience, but he also had worked at the state level and as a procurement forester.

Even with that much experience, it was a tough road.  The recession in the early '80s killed the business and we split the business.  My partner went into planning at the county level, and I went back to consulting at the mill level. 

Most successful consultants have some sort of background in forestry.  Some have parents in the business, or they have some sort of experience.  In my area, many are former procurement foresters.

[woodtroll]

I left school with the goal of being a consultant. I started by logging. Worked as a sub contractor doing TSI and then for the Forest Service before venturing on my own. It is very rough to start even with experience and a hungry desire to work. I have quite being a consultant/contractor twice. (Once for being broke, the 2nd I was doing fine just saw better opportunity)
Right after school I didn't have near the knowledge I would have needed to be successful. I learned more in those first few years after school then the 4 years taught.

[VT_Forestry]

I agree with everything that's been said here, but I'll add one more thing to it.  I, too, am looking at graduation in May, and it's looking like it's going to be very difficult to get a job with the current economy.  Many of the large industries in this area (GP, Mead-Westvaco, etc.) are laying off their procurement foresters as opposed to hiring more people on.  IP hasn't hired a forester since 2000.  The market is looking pretty thin if a fresh graduate is looking for some procurement experience.  I know this isn't the case across the country, but that's the overall feeling i'm getting in talking to some of these people.  That being said, many people are looking to start out right into consulting, which I agree is probably a bad decision, but with the current economy job prospects are few and far between.  What do some of you more experienced foresters recommend in this situation?

[Ron Scott]

Seek employment with the USDA Forest Service or State forestry Agencies to gain experience. Get your name on their rosters for future employment.  Also, monitor the Job Opportunity Thread here on the Forum as jobs are posted.

One needs to be willing to move, however, but that's a good way to a gain a diversity of experience and get yourself known in the Forestry networks.

[Brian Beauchamp]

If you're going to jump into it, especially into the production side of it, get another job that will pay the bills while you're establishing yourself. Get to know the loggers and timber buyers before you start offering any sales services, especially if you end up in an area that is somewhat devoid of consultants like mine is. Most of the loggers in the area had never dealt with a consultant before and, quite honestly, I think I scared the heck out of them when I first started into the scene and sent out my first prospectus on a sale. I was 'too much, too quick'...and the problem was not the professional way that I went about trying to conduct the sale, but that I did not have a personal relationship with them...so build those first. Also, ask around about the tendencies and reputations of the loggers with which you are dealing. Some you will find need more observation and accountability restrictions than others, but set the same accountability standards for everyone...that way it is not a matter of 'mistrust' of some, but just the accepted procedure.

One reason a lot of the Forest Industry is hiring fewer foresters is because they are contracting out what forestry work that needs to be done. I had a great situation with Weyerhaeuser doing contract work through them, but they were phasing out the need for intensive cruising because of a land scanning system they were trying to implement, so I eventually got 'phased out' as well. Some opportunities do still exist in contracting though if you check into it. I could have switched over to other areas, but it was at a time when my private consulting work started to take off, so I decided to concentrate on that instead.

Anyway...the long and short of it is, make sure you have a steady source of income to cover all of your expenses, even if it is a non-forestry job, and get to know those with which you will be doing business on a regular basis and understand their markets, first. If you do those things, you can ease into it and succeed.

[woodtroll]

What Ron said.
Also look at contract work. TSI, thinning work. Hands on stuff always needs GOOD people.
Talk to the service foresters for your area, ask about work they may have provided cost share for and landowners that may need help with completing.

[Ron Wenrich]

Yes, times are tough.  But, the worst thing you could do is put your shingle out and wash out before you ever really had a chance.  One thing a consultant has to do every time he talks to a potential client.  He has to sell himself and his services.   There's some transferable technology right there.  Get a job as a salesman. 

We had a mill hand position open for 4 months before we found someone willing to do the work.  An observant and dependable mill hand can move up pretty quick in most small mills.  The first mill I worked at after college only had about 10 people working for it.  Right now it has 600.  So, don't discount manual labor just because you have the degree.

If you want to do consulting work, do it part time.  You're going to make a lot of mistakes, and it will be easy to find that you're in over your head.  Make friends with a forester that will help you out when that happens.  I wouldn't recommend trying to be a consultant straight out of college.

[VT_Forestry]

I just applied for two jobs today here in Blacksburg with the USFS.  One was a technician job (Harvest Inspector) and the other was an actual Forester position.  Hopefully one of those will pan out, that would be great...

I have also been working in my spare time with a friend of mine doing cruises for a local consultant...subcontracting if you will.  This has been *great* hands on experience and something that gives me a leg up on other graduating students that might apply for the same jobs I do.  You can take all the book learning in the world but it ain't a hill of beans to good, honest hands-on experience...so I'm trying to get as much of that as possible before I graduate here 

[Woolywolf]

Experience and professional relationships seem to be vital to success.  I bet that's true for a lot of professions. There's been much good advice and common sense in these responses, so thanks for sharing.  There's a time for everything under the sun, and for starting a consulting business, it's doesn't appear to be right after you graduate, especially with the economy slumping right now.  Knowing when to make the right move is just as important as knowing how to do it--at least, I think that's true in Nascar.  Look at Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch.  One peaked at the right time.  But I guess they're both making a lot more than a forester.

VTForestry, did you know the local consultant before hand?  I'm just curious. Sometimes it seems so much easier to find work when you know people.  I've tried going in cold before, asking for jobs.  One time I didn't have anything to lose, so I dawned a neck tie and sports coat and went into several local law firms (before I knew I wanted to do forestry) and asked if they could use some help and handed them a resume if they would take it.  Surprisingly I did land a job that way, but it took a lot of sympathetic and skeptical looks from receptionists and lawyers before it happened.  I even walked into mental health agency by accident and gave the receptionist my splill.  Her look was priceless.  She finally realized that I thought it was the law firm and pointed me next door.  Man, I was embarrased.  Anyway, I guess I'm coming to the conclusion that walking into peoples' offices and begging for work is not that effective.  It seems a lot easier if the person knows you before hand--your work ethic and attitude.  Anyway, I rambled.  Keep us posted on the job search.   

[VT_Forestry]

Woolywolf,

I didn't know the consultant personally but the guy I work with had worked with him in the past.  I think you're right...it's really about who you know.  You can get work without knowing someone, but it sure is a lot easier when you have those contacts and connections.  I've really tried hard this year to talk to everyone I possibly can within the forestry sector around here.  You never know when one of them may come to you and say "I heard about a job you might be interested in..." 

Thanks to everyone for the great responses and advice, keep it coming...Lord knows I need all the help I can get haha 

[woodtroll]

If you want to be a consultant or in procurement work on those cold calls.  You need to be able to sell your self and services.
But also good forestry.

[Ron Wenrich]

And you have to be able to handle rejection.   ;)  More people say no than say yes.

[Good Feller]

I graduated with a degree in Forestry in 2007.  After graduating I learned that finding a full-time forestry related position was going to be tough in my area.  I found a good job (not forestry related) and it pays the bills.  Since then, I took the game of logging course to learn the limitations/safety when cutting timber.  I highly recommend this if you are going to do timber sales or any timber stand improvement work.  Knowing how to cut opens a lot more doors for you. 

I started my forestry business July 2008.  I said if things don't work out,,, at least I won't be out much........ HA ha!!!  Prepare to put in 10X more time/money/headaches to get going than you think.   Get it started as soon as you can...  You have to get your feet wet.  Once your feet are wet and you have money invested it will force you to succeed.  There will be a ton of information you didn't learn in school.  I carried a pocket notebook with me and daydreamed about my business 24/7.  Whenever a question popped up in my head that I had no answer I wrote in the notebook and then tried my best to find the answer.  Ask everyone and anyone these questions until you become satisfied.  Who cares if they think you are stupid for asking.  .  I had zero experience when I started.  There was nobody to hold my hand and show me anything.  I couldn't find anyone (not from lack of asking or looking)...  Get your name out there.  Call foresters and sawmills in your area.  Bug the hell out of them.  Your name will eventually stick.  Know where the loggers, foresters, and sawmills are. 

If you are serious, don't ever give up.  Just keep learning and giving 100%.  Finding someone to walk the woods with and ask ?'s is ideal,,, if you can't find anyone right away do not lose hope.  It might atcually sink in better if you are forced to find out this information on your own anyways.  I wish you good luck buddy.