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Milling Oak Marine Piles

Started by Paul G, January 01, 2009, 10:55:44 PM

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Paul G

Happy New Year Everyone.

Fired up the new mill today and started milling up one the oak piles I brought home from work the other day. (posted some pictures in the gallery but cant get them in this post?) I didnt have much time but what came off looks real promising.
Heres the deal with the piles. I have a practically unlimited supply of them. I work as a dockbuilder in NYC and we are removing them. The company puts them on a garbage scow to get rid of them as garbage. I cut what looks good at lunch time and load them into my truck. The piles have been submerged for approximately 20 years.
I was planning on cutting them into ties but I think they may be a better grade. I dont know if they need be dried or if they will shrink. They have been dried and treated with creosote years ago. The creosote seems to have washed out.   
Any ideas and/or insight would be greatly appreciated. I am not sure what their best use will be. I'll keep you guys posted with pics & posts. Picking up another load tomorrow and milling sat and sun. Thanks.

Paul

sgschwend

If you are finding a lot of good parts, I would find out if you could take them all.  Assuming you could sell the others for firewood.

If it is too much for your setup then perhaps look for another sawmill in the area and share the wealth.   The other mill may have a large truck, that would speed the pickup and delivery.

By sharing you could pickup some good ideas on how to cut them.  I am sure most folks will be passing on the high value uses (which I would not expect RR ties to be one of them) such as flooring, reclaimed wood has a following for vintage repairs, and new construction.

good luck, let us know what is happening.
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

Dana

Before I bought my mill I found a few oak pilings. They had also been submerged. I had them milled into 1" material. Mine were stacked and stickered and moved considerably after drying. I didn't have any weight on the pile maybe that would have helped. I blamed it on the amount of extra water the log had soaked up over the years.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Ron Wenrich

Are these the pics?







Creosote may or may not be a problem.  My experience in seeing treated pine posts is that it doesn't go in much beyond the sapwood.  White oak shouldn't be much different, since tylosis shuts down the vessels and doesn't allow much liquid to move through the lumber.  Think whiskey barrels that are made from white oak.  Red oak may allow the migration, since the pores are open.  It doesn't appear to be a really big problem in those logs.

If there is creosote present on the logs, I'd be cautious trying to use them for firewood.  They'll burn pretty hot, and the gas won't be too good for your chimney.

From a lumber standpoint, those poles generally come from a lower grade of log.  They have certain specs they need to make those pilings, so they don't take big logs or sawn logs.  There is less grade in a small log than in a larger one, especially as you work your way to the heart.

Quality is defined as the amount of clear wood present in the board.  The less defect, the better the board.  Sawing for a wholesale market, grade is defined on the poorest side of the board, not the best.  What you do with the retail market is a whole other thing. 

At a minimum, you might get some lumber that is worthy of flooring.  I'm not sure how much the lumber will move.  I know that they were milling logs out of the old log locks over in Williamsport.  They have been submerged in the Susquehanna for over 100 years.  They have also milled logs that have come out of cold waters up in New England.  So, your logs shouldn't be any different.

You could saw some into ties, but you'll have to watch those heart cracks, and any splits.  They have to be contained within the tie, and can't break the surface.  Quite often in a low grade log, the tie is worth more than the lumber.  Put those heart cracks at an angle and you'll be able to get away with a bigger defect.  The tie companies will plate the ends of those ties to prevent further splitting. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Meadows Miller

Gday Paul & Steve

First of all welcome to the forum Mate  ;D 8) and feel free to pull up a pack anytime  ;) :D ;D

Ive probley sawn over 8000 ton + of Aust H/wood warf piles 12" to 24" dia over the last 8 years mainly in to large section building timber 12x4s 8x2s 10x2s Ive done a power of 8x8s 10x10s and 12x12  for mud brick timberframe homes eg a cheap price overhere for a high grade 10x10 20' long would be around $375 min AU ea Wsale to $875 Au ea Retail direct to the costomer  once you get to doing 20'+ long you would be looking at a mark up of a min 30% on those prices  ;) depnding on the length ive cut ridge beams upto 42' long that was a 12x16 went for $3500 ea not a bad days work  ;) ;D 8)

Ive been contracting to the top 5 tmber recyclers in Australia for all that time either as a subcontract sawyer using their gear or using my own equipment  ;) Its a big buisness overhere its not unusual to hear of 700 + mile cartage one way on warf piles and timber ive even sawn stuff that was carted all the way from Perth WA to 200 miles north of Melborne Vic  ;) ;D thats about 2700 miles rougley one way  :)

I dont know how things work in NYC but downunder all goverment work on warf maint and demos is all subbyed out to private contractors and time is money so we can get hit with anything from 250 ton through to 1000 ton within a 30 day period  :o and when you bid on the timber you take it all or nothing so that costs the buyer anything from $20 to $120000 in one hit   :) thats why ive stuck with doing the sawing component as its a huge one of outlay and i make good money doing that even tho it can be spasmodic at times

With stockpiling Logs its a good idea I cut stuff that had been stored for 20yrs  :)
as i know Barry from Nullabor timber at moama about 60 miles away I call him a wood horder  ;) :D  he started collecting logs and timber back in the 70s from demmo jobs and started the buisness in the eirly 80s Like he said to me. Me wife thought i was bloody mad when i started bringing all this timber home but it was only costing me the cartage so she lett me goon with it  ;) when he got the buisness started i think he had about 2000 ton in stock and the recycled timber industry was born in aus as up untill Barry started there wasnt any retailers of this sort of timber in the country it was all luck if you wanted to build with recycled timber and could find it   ;) ive heard people refer to him as a millionare . but like he said to me it was a dang hard runn sometimes in the first 10/15 years but  we do bloody well out of it now mate  ;) ;D
you can check out his web site at www.nullabortimber.com.au

Or you could stockpile the best ones and sell the other logs for rr ties ect .now i find the better timber comes from below the water line but you will have to look out for watrelogged sections the best stuff ive ever cut is the section of pile that has been submerged in the mud silt as no air gets in  ;) our piles overhere get driven 20 to 40' into the bed  . A good preassure washer gets them clean but you genraly start seeing godd stuff starting 2' below the low tide mark  ;D i cut everything the good ;D the bad  :( and the ugly  >:( the ugly stuff is above the waterline and you have to de metal it where the cross arms and braces are its genrally got heavy raidial checking and as dry as a dead dingos dongga  ;) :D ;D and has case hardening which i dont know if you get that overthere which is bloody  hard on the saws  :o 1 to 5 logs per sharpen  :) :o :( >:(  :D :D


I think you have a realy good opertunity at your fingertips its just a matter of how far you want to go with it Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) it all comes down to quality and marketing  ;) ;D


just wait untill you hit your first rotten musle with the back of the saw and get showerd with it  ;) :D :D :D they dont smell tooo good mate    :) ::) ::) :(

The post with the pics just came up as i went to post this its nice clean looking stuff  ;) ;D
I cut a heap of stuff out of a warf that had a gasifacation plant on it during the war that the just dumped the waste sludge through a hole in the warf into the river every one of the piles was black through to the center and stunk like creo  :) ::)

Reguards Chris



4TH Generation Timbergetter

thecfarm

I would be careful trying to resell any of the product.Being treated with creosote would concern me the ways things are now adays. Probaly if you did not say anything no one would be know. For your own use would be great.Wonder how long it would take to be able to use for firewood.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Tom

I wouldn't burn it and surely wouldn't saw it for human habitation.  Creosote is a know carcinogen and warnings here are not to burn it.  You would be about as well off burning old tires.   It gets used for fence boards, though it might not have enough in it to be rot resistant.  It still probably has enough in it to be a health hazard if closed up in a house.

If you are determined to saw the stuff, clean yourself, your mill and the ground where the sawdust lays.  Get rid of it.

I know it is difficult to pass up sturdy wood, but sometimes you have to think "down the road".

Even if you don't saw it, there might be a market for fence corner posts or gate posts.

I'd be real leery of taking someone else's hazardous waste problem and put the liability on myself.

stonebroke

there was a guy down the road that got a contract to take NYC dock pilings. He saw that some were in good shape and started selling them to farmers for pole barns. DEC got wind of this and stopped it.Farmers are allowed to use cresote, but DEC did not like reuse. So they got hauled to the landfill. Another brilliant move by the government.

Stonebroke

Paul G

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the great input. I got  a chance to open a few of those pile buts open and make a decision on what to do with them. I've decided to cut them into cross ties. I cut a 4x4 from the heart and  a few other pieces and could still find a faint smell of creosote. That was enough for me to decide. The Dockbuilders Union I belong to spent millions to fight creosote usage and I just couldnt pass this product on to others for use much less use it myself. The railroad industry still uses creosote and what better place than to send these timbers to them for recycling. Win/Win.
I have a friend with an industrial site to mill them up at and store them. I will take the refuse back to work and put it on the garbage scow and let it be disposed of properly. A little extra work but once I get going I can bring it back on days I pick up.
If any one can provide me with tie buyers & other info I would appreciate it. I already have good amount of info from RTA, but insight, tips and contacts would be great. Thanks in advance.
Paul

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