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Author Topic: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill  (Read 6370 times)

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Offline fishpharmer

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I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« on: December 31, 2008, 01:11:30 AM »
 I think I figured out the photo thing.  Okay, after hurricane Katrina hit, I decided not to let the wood go to waste.  I found these sawmill plans online.  Its a William Rake simple sawmill plan.  Is this link okay? guess mods will tell. 

http://www.pennswoods.net/~zigbug/

So I started with that plan and ended with this since some of my trees are huge.  Obviously I don't know alot about sawmills as you will see.  So I reengineered, jury rigged or just messed the plans up and ...
Here is my mill 100% cut and welded by me.  Okay don't laugh.

I added some specs to the original post.
has a 48 inch cutting width. In hindsight I think 18 horsepower isn't enough for large logs, worked okay on 12 inch pines.
Horsepower 18 B&S Twin electric start, custum pipes (I am sure I need more HP to cut 48 inch oak)
Track length 20 foot (3/8 inch 3 by 5 angle)
Track cross pieces every 2 feet (3 inch C channel 1/4 inch)
Cutting width 48 inches (thought I could cut some big oaks)
About ten feet wide outside band wheels ( 31 diameter trailer tires)
Four post cutter head on v rollers
Electric winch cable raises and lowers cutter head
blades 1.5 inch by 21.5 feet long
Raises up 48 inches, track to blade (for big logs)
Blade guides are  mounted on one inch square tube and too flimsy.
Blades guides are roller bearings.




I am fairly thick skinned and would appreciate any and all advice and criticism. If interested more in the gallery.

here goes....


Cutterhead and track.  For the record the treated boards came from Lowes, just a good flat place to put them.

idler side tightening and tracking adjustment

Drive side of cutterhead


Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline Jeff

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 06:03:29 AM »
Good Job on the pics! Now that ya have it figured out, it'll be a snap for you. :)
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Offline mike_van

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 06:38:14 AM »
fish, I think you need some better guards over the blade - When they snap, I wouldn't want to be along side of one of those tires.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2008, 07:23:58 AM »
Looks OK to me.As long as you are happy with it,that's all that matters.Do you have to turn them big logs manual?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2008, 07:27:53 AM »
Fisher,the only ugly mills are the ones that never get by the planning stage.How does she cut??Mike is right about the guards,wood makes very good guards and its much easier on bands when they come off .Someone building their own mill really needs to build two, first you run for a wile then build the second using everything you learned.You can BS people but you can't BS logs when the mill puts out good straight boards to specs.its a thing of beauty.Keep up the good work Fisher.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2008, 08:20:37 AM »
I'm with Mike, get some guards on there.  I never believed bands broke until it happened to me, and when it did, I was sure glad the guard was on there.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2008, 10:28:42 AM »
I haven't used this thing in a couple of years.  This site and the need for wood has inspired me to get it going.  Also, I think I need your support.

Thanks everyone.  I was trying to work the tracking and guide bugs out before I added gaurds.  I did back out of a log and took the band off.  Scared the mess out of me.  :o   Cut one of the tires.  The wheel had a wobble and needed replacing anyway.  I went thru five wheels before getting it one that ran true.  Had nothing to do with the balancing of the tire. 

I will put gaurds on it.

It cut small pines good.  Never really got to anything big so I turning big logs hasn't been a problem.  I was gonna make a winch thingy to turn them.  Probably use tractors till then.
 
8) My daughter wanted to see this.

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline pineywoods

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2008, 10:43:44 AM »
Not ugly at all, nice.. I seriously considered building a mill, then I ran across a manual woodmizer for less than material cost..Please make some guards around the band and wheels. I've had a piece of broken blade punch completely through a metal sawdust chute....For the size logs you can handle, you definitely gonna need some hydraulics. Yeah you can wrap a chain around a log and roll it with tractor with front loader, but that don't work very well. If you haven't already found it, take a look at the search function. It's on the same bar where you click to logon. You can search 8 years of back posts for anything you might desire. Lots of stuff on home-build mills. Click on any users name and it will take you to their profile. Scroll down the profile and you will find a map with a pin showing their location (most of us anyway) You have a bunch of fellow sawdust makers fairly close.
I've been fortunate enough to meet some of them personally. We like pics, we like to visit
Welcome....
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline Tim L

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 12:44:37 PM »
ugly mills make beautiful wood!
Do the best you can and don't look back

Offline thecfarm

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 06:05:08 PM »
fishphamer,next time you have to back out of a cut,use a plastic felling wedge to open up the cut.Read this on here somewhere.Something so simple and it works so easy.Go up to the upper right and click on to Forum Extras. Lots of good help and ideas here.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Kelvin

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 08:14:27 PM »
Also don't back up with it running?  I built my own bill reeks style mill before i ended up buying a woodmizer LT40  I figured i wanted to cut wood and the time i spent moneking with the mill i might be paid for by someone else to cut.  Well, it was a good thought, didn't work out that way, but i'm always changing my plans. 

One thing i notice is it looks like you have one drive belt?  With that much horse power you probably would like about three on heavy pulleys.  That pulley looks a little whimpy for the horse power.  What type of clutch system did you use?  I had a hard time finding a centrifigal cluctch big enough to handle my horse power. 

You probably will have a hard time pulling the blade through a cut wider than 24", which takes a lot of horse power in oak.  my 25hp kohler was pretty slow at 20".  Did you calculate your blade speed with the pulley sizes and engine rpms?  Blade tension is pretty critical as well, you might look on ebay for a blade tension gauge, might be worth it. YOu wouldn't believe how helpful understanding blade dynamics is in making sure you get the most out of your mill.

I balanced my tires on the mill by spinning the tires and shaving them round with a file of some sort.  Is that what you meant by balance?  Or did it actually vibrate?  I would think a tire that was balanced at a tire shop should be okay for vibration.

Lot of guys here have built their own mills so lots of info and lessons learned, so be sure and ask around.  The pictures were kind of dark so i couldn't tell much more about your support systems and whatnot.  Looks pretty good though.  Hope you are able to get some cutting done. 

One other important thought.  I had a friend who made wood bows for a living and we were talking about how a bad arrow will make any bow terrible but a good arrow, can make a bad bow acceptable.  Same goes with bandmills and blades.  They make 15 or so different types of blade profiles in each of the different standard sizes, 1 1/4", 1 1/2" 2" and so on.  You mention the 1.5" wide blade, these are usually thicker metal for bigger horse power, over 25hp.  The stock blades at 1 1/4" width, and thinner gauge band body are like thin kerf blades on your table saw.  Makes a difference on the mill power.  I would make sure you run a decent, .042 kerf blade, probably 1 1/4" with your lower horse power.  Then make sure you get the right kerf, pitch and hook for the species you intend to cut.  I would probably also move your wheels in to use a standard size so your blades do have to be custom made.  You won't use the width accept once in a blue moon and you'll be paying for it all the time.  There is a reason why they build them like they do. 

Good luck,
KP

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2009, 07:31:16 PM »
Guess I am going backwards, won't be the first time.
Here is a pic of the idler side and adjustments soon after assembly.  Clearer than post paint.

Comments? Critics?

I will say this the winch Idea didn't work too well.  Maybe it was cheap, it was actually.  Anyway, when I got it tight it would creep back. Finally quit so need something else.  May use a come along type winch.

Also, I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion for blade size.  I currently have 1.5 inch.
And the date on pic is wrong.  It was 2006.
Thanks, more to come when I have time.

 

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2009, 08:14:28 PM »
Also don't back up with it running?  I built my own bill reeks style mill before i ended up buying a woodmizer LT40  I figured i wanted to cut wood and the time i spent moneking with the mill i might be paid for by someone else to cut.  Well, it was a good thought, didn't work out that way, but i'm always changing my plans. 

     Some of my best lessons have been learned the hard way, glad I can tell about it. 



One thing i notice is it looks like you have one drive belt?  With that much horse power you probably would like about three on heavy pulleys.  That pulley looks a little whimpy for the horse power.  What type of clutch system did you use?  I had a hard time finding a   centrifigal cluctch big enough to handle my horse power. 

     I had trouble finding pulleys of the right diameter locally that fit my shafts, I would have used at least a double if I could have         found one.  Since then I have many more sources and you folks.  I used a slide clutch, I mounted the engine on sliders and pull it over opposite the drive wheel and that tightens the belt.  I wasn't sure of my final design and made some spot welds to hold temporary and they broke.  I don't have a portable welder so couldn't fix it.  I can borrow or rent one now.


You probably will have a hard time pulling the blade through a cut wider than 24", which takes a lot of horse power in oak.  my 25hp kohler was pretty slow at 20".  Did you calculate your blade speed with the pulley sizes and engine rpms? 

I emailed Bill Rake about  the blade speed stuff.  I went through alot of calculations based on peak horsepower and torque of my engine, band "tire" size etc.  Thats how I came up with the pulley sizes.  I can't find and don't remember exactly but it seems like the engine is 4.5 and the drive band pulley is 16 or 19.  Anyway I ran it by Mr. Rake and he said it was good.  Does 4500 ft per second sound right on the blade speed?  I want to get it running before changing that pulleys. 


Blade tension is pretty critical as well, you might look on ebay for a blade tension gauge, might be worth it. YOu wouldn't believe how helpful understanding blade dynamics is in making sure you get the most out of your mill.

   I learned how critical tension was with my crappie winch deal.  I just had multiple problems to resolve and it was/is easy to put off.


I balanced my tires on the mill by spinning the tires and shaving them round with a file of some sort.  Is that what you meant by balance?  Or did it actually vibrate?  I would think a tire that was balanced at a tire shop should be okay for vibration.

  Interesting questions.  I took the tires to a tire shop, 15 inch rims and 31 inch diameter.  They were balanced according to them.  I put them on mill and still a slight wobble.  Could call it a vibration.  So took back, the take tire off and the rim is bent an eigth an inch. not the edges but the hub part is outa wack.  Enough, that the 21.5 foot band blade didn't run straight.  Tire guy says its common especially on welded steel trailer rims (wheels).  Anyway after FIVE new rims (wheels) i got one that was true, no wobble. 


Lot of guys here have built their own mills so lots of info and lessons learned, so be sure and ask around.  The pictures were kind of dark so i couldn't tell much more about your support systems and whatnot.  Looks pretty good though.  Hope you are able to get some cutting done. 

   Thanks, its been sitting up awhile but I hope to get it going.  Will try to get better photos too.

One other important thought.  I had a friend who made wood bows for a living and we were talking about how a bad arrow will make any bow terrible but a good arrow, can make a bad bow acceptable.  Same goes with bandmills and blades.  They make 15 or so different types of blade profiles in each of the different standard sizes, 1 1/4", 1 1/2" 2" and so on.  You mention the 1.5" wide blade, these are usually thicker metal for bigger horse power, over 25hp.  The stock blades at 1 1/4" width, and thinner gauge band body are like thin kerf blades on your table saw.  Makes a difference on the mill power.  I would make sure you run a decent, .042 kerf blade, probably 1 1/4" with your lower horse power.  Then make sure you get the right kerf, pitch and hook for the species you intend to cut.  I would probably also move your wheels in to use a standard size so your blades do have to be custom made.  You won't use the width accept once in a blue moon and you'll be paying for it all the time.  There is a reason why they build them like they do. 

   A blade company recommended 1.5 inch.  I will try 1.25.  Makes sense about HP.  I don't think I want to move wheels in.  Actually my plan was to get about a 50+ horsepower engine some where.   I had rebuilt a wrecked (not mine) Harley Sportster 883 that put out 56 hp and plenty of torque.  In hindsight I would have used it but sold it about six months before the sawmill idea popped up.
Gotta watch them ideas they can be a dangerous thing ;D

Thanks for the ideas, I just gotta get it going.


Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline pineywoods

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2009, 08:17:42 PM »
Small electric winches usually use a planetary gear reduction. they won't hold a load. You need one with a worm gear.  Look around for an electric wheel chair motor. 24 volt, but they work well on 12. built in worm reduction gear...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2009, 08:27:14 PM »
Thanks Pineywoods and all others-awesome, I hadn't thought of that, I will look.

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: I can resize photos if anyone cares. Here is my ugly mill
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2009, 09:17:47 PM »
We just use a long bolt through the framework you have. Tighten the bolt to the same location every time. TIRES are more forgiving than belts on pulleys. You could do that real easy. Use a grade 8 bolt, so you don't eventually gall the threads. Look in my gallery for our adjuster.
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