The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts

Smith Sawmill Service



Author Topic: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water  (Read 7936 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hard Bark

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • Share Post
Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« on: March 03, 2011, 08:24:17 AM »
I see diff. ways, some have a side shell and tube hx (connect top and bottom of hot water heater) and I also see plate and frame connect to the cold supply to the hot water heater. Just wondering what better???????????

Offline JSNH

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Deering New Hampshire
  • Lane circular mill
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 07:23:57 PM »
I like the sidearm or an indirect tank with a coil. With the sidearm you need a temp. regulator on the hot out. The sidearm is retrofitted to a gas or electric hot water tank so you have summer back up but you also have the usual short life on those tanks. The indirect tank a thermostat turns on the heat to the coil. Either way the water is hot and at the same temp.The plate you have a greater chance of the temp wandering.

JSNH

Offline upsnake

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: Howell, MI
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 08:13:37 PM »
If you use a lot of water and you want to go all out. Put a plate hx in prewater heater. Then put a sidearm in, you will have unlimited at water at that point.

My setup is going to be half of that, I am putting the plate hx inline before the water heater but no sidearm. So all my water heater has to do is maintain the water temp, it will be preheated coming in.

Offline Holmes

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1787
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Royalston ma.
  • Gender: Male
  • 1840 house
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 09:54:43 PM »
I am assuming this is for your outside boiler. If you have an existing electric or gas water heater you should use the tube hx piped to your outside boiler. If you are buying a water heater I would suggest an indirect water heater with a heat exchanger built into it.  A stainless steel unit 60 to 80 gallons should be plenty large enough and should have a lifetime warranty but they are expensive.  Holmes
Think like a farmer.

Offline Hard Bark

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 07:26:33 AM »
Sorry, I should have said(for an outdoor wood burner) Thanks for the info.

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 32062
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 07:32:32 AM »
If you are even thinking about heating your water with a OWB in the summer put some valves in so you don't heat up the house loop too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline doctorb

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Glyndon, MD
  • Gender: Male
  • Unofficial Team Physician
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 09:50:07 AM »
I would like to not run my OWB in the summer just for hot water.  I would also like to know if there is any good alternative to using my oil furnace to heat the DHW during these warmer months.  It seems wasteful to keep the furnace temps up constantly, when DHW is not constantly called for.

This is especially true in the second of my 2 basements, which only provides DHW to one powder room and 2 full baths (No laundry, no kitchen, no dishwasher).  So I burn some oil in the summer just waiting for one of my daughters to take a shower.

Are there any other methods that can provide a steady stream of hot water (girls take long showers), be cost effective, not lower shower water pressure, and provide hot water on demand rather than keeping it hot with oil 24/7?  Would a small electric heater be better?  Your thoughts and suggestions.  Thanks
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline ely

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2700
  • Age: 54
  • Location: atoka okla.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 09:59:30 AM »
imo, it would be cheaper in the long run to re-educate the daughter on how to properly take a shower.
we have a 13 year old boy who thinks long showers are the way it is done, i hate to tell him but , i have installed a valve on the hot water tank in the new house, he will have x amount of time to get the shower and get out.

i am certain he thinks i am just kidding, much the same way i thought my dad was kidding when i was that age... cold water is a great teacher.

Offline doctorb

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Glyndon, MD
  • Gender: Male
  • Unofficial Team Physician
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 10:04:46 AM »
Good idea, but my wife would kill me!
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 27167
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 10:41:53 AM »
dr
As a boy, before drawing water for a bath I had to go to the basement and build a fire in a small wood burner that heated the water in a tank. That was our DHW.  Put one in for the daughter, and if the fire wasn't good enough, the shower will be shorter.  For a longer fire, another trip to the basement to put more wood in to burn. :)  Yup, I know that really won't work.

Our daughters learned that a looonng shower would somehow cause a spurge of cold water coming from the shower head. Just a momentary closing off a hotwater valve in the basement can be a great wakeup call when they fall near asleep under the shower head.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline darnet

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 61
  • Location: upstate NY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 11:11:26 AM »
Hey Doc,
  The way mine is set up is a loop after the hex (header). The zone circulators and the dhw draw all demands from this loop. I have a hot water tank 40gal with a coil inside. Never run out of hot water. If for some reason your demand is really great the furnace backup kicks in to help but mine don't run at all.

Offline doctorb

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Glyndon, MD
  • Gender: Male
  • Unofficial Team Physician
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 11:29:10 AM »
Hey- I am not a plumber (urologist! - sorry - medical joke :D) so let me get this straight.  You have a loop in your hot water line from your oil burner to a 40 gallon tank.  This tank is a passive hot water storage tank, so when hot water is demanded it comes from there first?  When you start to drain the hot water from the tank, it fills with hot water heated in the jacket of your furnace?  Doesn't your furnace have to keep the jacket up to temp 24/7 and therefore have to run intermittantly, regardless of the hot water draw?  Help!
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline darnet

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 61
  • Location: upstate NY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 01:02:27 PM »
The loop is part of the header that the circulators work from. The dhw is a zone just like a heating zone. When it calls to heat your dhw a circulator kicks on to run hot water thru your hot water tank to heat the water. when the demand is to great or your owbs temps are low or not running as in the summer the furnace kicks on to take up the slack.

Offline darnet

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 61
  • Location: upstate NY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 01:13:57 PM »
Sorry I didn't answer your other question. Yes it does have to run once in awhile to keep temps up but its not very often with todays tanks. If you don't like that idea for summer use you can install a tankless dhw heater but I didn't go that route. When I upgraded my heating system from steam to hot water heat I also put a new condencing gas furnace and a new dhw tank along with the owb.
  Scott

Offline submarinesailor

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2186
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Syria, Virginia
  • Gender: Male
  • LT15 and a wife of 45 yrs
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 02:28:11 PM »
If you are trying to lower your hot water cost without buying a new H/W heater, I would perform the following:

  Reduce your hot water use
  Lower your water heating temperature - some say 105-110.  I still like HOT water on my lower back, so I lowered ours to 115 from 120.  NOTE - We were always taught by the military doctor's in training that the skin begins to burn at 120, some fair skin people burn at lower temperatures - doctorb correct me if I got it wrong.
  Insulate your water heater tank
  Insulate hot water pipes
  Install heat traps on a water heater tank
  Install a timer and use off-peak power for an electric water heater
  Install a drain-water heat recovery system.

If you are going to replace/install a new one and have access to natural gas, then I would look into one of the BETTER QUALITY tankless heaters.  But, if you are total electric or propane, I would consider a tanked heater and insulate it with one of those tank insulating kits you can get at one of the big box stores----------plus all the other items listed above.  One more thing on the electric type - put a timer on it as stated above.  There is no need to run it from midnight to about an hour before you get up in the morning.  Plus what about the middle of the day?  If no one is home for several hours, click it off.  I have used them in 2 separate houses and found that they work.  Also, if there was no chance of freezing, we always turned it off while we were gone for several days or more.

Bruce

Offline darnet

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 61
  • Location: upstate NY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 02:34:56 PM »
I was going to add some pic but can't seem to do it right but they are on the site if you want to look at them.
  Scott

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 27167
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 02:48:56 PM »
darnet
You are so close with your pics, just as well move them into your posts.

Have the gallery open in a window, and click on your pic. Then scroll down to see where moving it to your post is done. Two ways to do it.
Click on Preview before posting to see that what you want is actually in your post. It is easy, now that getting the pics in your gallery is done.

Interesting set of pipes you have. A church pipe organ comes to mind. :)
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline doctorb

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Glyndon, MD
  • Gender: Male
  • Unofficial Team Physician
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 10:44:26 PM »
Bruce-

That's the kind of info I'm looking for.  I have 2 basements with two furnaces, each of which supplies DHW to a portion of my house.  Crazy, I know.  It's an old log cabin add-on farmhouse-addition type thing.  Cool but wierd.

Anyway, currently I have to keep my oil furnace on in both basements to supply everybody with hot water on demand during the non-OWB months.  So do I.....

1.  Shut down the lesser half of the house's DHW and make the girls shower in our bathroom.  They're now 17 and 20 years old and aren't interested in that anymore.

2. Get electric hot water heaters for use when I am not burning wood, one for each basement.

3.  Get DHW on demand through a tankless system in the "old basement", supplies only two full baths as above.  I have propane available, but would have to run another line, as well as electric.

I don't see how the passive tank helps me that much, as the furnace is set to hold a temp of at least 160 degrees throughout the day, regardless of DHW use or not.  So those are my unusual variables.  Any other suggestions for "summer" DHW?  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline Holmes

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1787
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Royalston ma.
  • Gender: Male
  • 1840 house
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2011, 09:01:48 AM »
Doctorb  it sounds like you have a boiler with a tankless water  heater. The easiest thing to do is turn the electric switch off to the boiler when hot water is not needed. Or have an electrician put in a couple of timers , set the clocks for boiler operation say for 4 am to 8 am and let the family know this is the time we will have hot water, or set it so you get hot water 2 times a day.  It is like having a clock thermostat for the boiler but it needs to shut the power OFF to the boiler a clock T stat will not do that.   Holmes     " I used to be a brain surgeon  then I found out plumbers make more money so I switched "  ;) ;D ;D 8)
Think like a farmer.

Offline doctorb

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Glyndon, MD
  • Gender: Male
  • Unofficial Team Physician
    • Share Post
Re: Whats the best way to heat domestic hot water
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 11:35:02 AM »
Thanks - and I know I am not smart enough to be a plumber.  The timer sounds like a good idea.  I wonder how much oil you use with a "cold start" a couple of times a day versus the oil required to keep the water jacket of the furnace warm 24/7?

This solution will certainly work on the furnace for the bathrooms only.  However, the other furnace services the laundry and the kitchen as well as one bathroom, so I don't see a way to use a timer there.  We seem to to laundry at all hours of the day!
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
On demand domestic hot water using water to water heat exchanger?

Started by Fether Hardwoods on Firewood and Wood Heating

7 Replies
2022 Views
Last post July 26, 2015, 09:50:11 PM
by r.man
xx
Domestic Water Sidearm

Started by Andy M on Firewood and Wood Heating

8 Replies
2007 Views
Last post September 24, 2012, 06:36:41 PM
by mrwood
xx
Plate Exchanger for domestic hot water and OWB

Started by Nodak Andy on Firewood and Wood Heating

30 Replies
1423 Views
Last post January 13, 2021, 03:39:17 AM
by DDW_OR
moved
MOVED: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.

Started by chet on Forestry and Logging

0 Replies
977 Views
Last post February 08, 2015, 11:30:45 PM
by chet
 


Powered by EzPortal