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Author Topic: 440 running hot  (Read 1831 times)

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Offline KyLogger

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440 running hot
« on: October 24, 2012, 11:04:17 PM »
My little 440B has always run warm, and on my new job I have got a fairly long drag from the back of the site. Anyway my moron er.... I mean idiot workhand.....says to me she's up to 220!!! I Freaked and explained to him that was not acceptable operating temps (I put it much more eloquently and profanely I am sure) He had run this skidder for it's previous owner and said ....................... always ran it that hot and never paid it any attention. I also explained to him that I was not in fact.................... and it was my skidder and I want it run how I want it run and if it gets hot let er' cool down!!!!! Anyhow I jerked the rad out, took it in, had it tested (it was blowing out the cap) straightened all the bent up fins out, degreased and pressure washed it and installed a 160 degree thermostat (there was none in it when I took the housing loose! And the end result is pretty much the same, maybe a little cooler bit still likes to flirt with the  190s and will go up if you don't drag in first. My buddy's uncle had one and he said they called the 440s "tea kettles" because running hot was just their nature, and there was not much you could do about it. My question is do I get it recored with bigger cores (to the tune of $800) buy a new one (I don't even want to guess the $ if I can even find one) or is this really the nature of this little outfit and I just have to live with SLOW production?

Thanks,
Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

Offline 240b

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 11:42:45 PM »
is the gauge correct?  maybe get one which is known, an hook it up see what you get.  I have the reverse problem, has a hard time getting up to temp.... 

Offline MJD

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 05:49:15 AM »
My 440c always ran cool also, had to really work it to get it warm.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 05:59:18 AM »
if its hot weather then its to be expected. there were some water pumps with plastic impellers that would spin on the shaft. yours have a pusher or puller fan? if its a pusher it must have the side pannels with the holes in them. the 440c had a much bigger rad

Offline grassfed

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 06:47:05 AM »
I would not worry if it is running around 190-200 under load, if everything else is ok.
Mike

Offline redprospector

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 03:26:34 PM »
You have to consider that it's just a 70 HP skidder. It's going to be lower production than a bigger skidder, and most skidders are bigger.
My 440 will get a little warm if I try to run in too high of a gear. Down hill you can go pretty good.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 07:01:10 PM »
If it was mine i wouldn't worry about it going to 220 as long as it cooled down right away.
The main thing is don't overload it, or run in to high a gear with a load, the motor should be peak rpm when pulling, not lugging at all.
If i could pull 8 trees i took 6. run back an forth all day with no trouble.
I had this trouble with help, always over loading the skidder. I showed-em they could skid twice as much pulling half as much each turn. Because they weren't stuck, or busting the mainline and all that good stuff that comes with over loading.
kylogger i'm not saying any of these are your issues.

Any diesel motor after working it don't shut it down cold turkey, give it a 3 to 5 minute cool down time.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline Bobus2003

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2012, 05:23:00 PM »
My 440 Runs 190* If i just start it and let it warm up.. Onc I start working it, it will stay in the 210* range and on the long hard pulls i can see 220-230*, but it will cool off quick when i stop working it.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 01:53:27 PM »
kylogger you don't have to live with slow production !!!!

The main thing is have the faller working right with the skidder. The skidder operator should never have to look or plan for the next turn. When the skidder gets back from the landing the faller should have the next turn ready to hook. The faller helps the skidder operator hook, shouldn't take more then 30 to 120 seconds to hook up. A lot of the time when i fell the operator never got off the skidder. I planed for lunch breaks so that the skidder was never setting. I would make a turn or 2 while the operator took a break. At the end of the day this meant 3 to 5 more cords on the landing. At the end of the week it was almost like you worked a extra day. Another thing that takes extra time is decking every turn. Depending on the size of the wood, we decked every third or forth turn, more trees are easier to deck. Again depending on the wood, we would run over the pile, i could deck 4' high with the C5 by doing this. The main skid trail has to be kept clean and stumps cut low, so the operator can run in the highest gear possible. I liked to average a cord turn and make as many as i can everyday. I liked to make pulling trees fun, not a job, no matter how much i pulled one day i tried to pull more the next day.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline KyLogger

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 10:11:48 PM »
That's the way I like to do it, have em cut waitin' on the skidder man to get back and help him hook. It cools off pretty quickly when at idle, and with me or my buddy's workhand running it we can keep it reasonable, my guy came from a logging outfit where if you weren't breaking cable, trees or blowing up saws or motors or pulling way too many trees you weren't working hard enough!!! I have a completely different mindset, go light and go often, and for the love of god a 440 will not grub the 34" red oak stump that the log is hung on out of the ground, I promise. I have tried to talk the boy, but he just can't seem to see it my way, I think it is time for us to part ways, it is so hard to find good help.


 Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

Offline thenorthman

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2012, 12:06:18 AM »
Its one thing to push the limits a bit to see what the machine can do, its another thing entirely to thrash a machine trying get more work done, and if a guy can't figure that out then maybe it is time for him to look for work, or buy his own machine, grabbing one extra log per turn on a long turn only saves a few turns at the end of the day, assuming that that extra log doesn't actualy slow the skidder down to where your really losing time, and at what expense to fuel and maintainence, every action has an opposite but equal reaction
well that didn't work

Offline Bobus2003

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 12:30:17 PM »
That's the way I like to do it, have em cut waitin' on the skidder man to get back and help him hook. It cools off pretty quickly when at idle, and with me or my buddy's workhand running it we can keep it reasonable, my guy came from a logging outfit where if you weren't breaking cable, trees or blowing up saws or motors or pulling way too many trees you weren't working hard enough!!! I have a completely different mindset, go light and go often, and for the love of god a 440 will not grub the 34" red oak stump that the log is hung on out of the ground, I promise. I have tried to talk the boy, but he just can't seem to see it my way, I think it is time for us to part ways, it is so hard to find good help.


 Tom

Where I'm working at now there is a crew with this same mentality.. They tear up a equipment or trucks every week..

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: 440 running hot
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 04:05:40 PM »
I liked to be top dog, i was often call a high-baller. I worked on felling & hooking methods to be able to keep the skidder or skidder's moving, not hung up in the woods. The skidder operator also had a saw, in case the faller needs help limbing, nobody setting waiting on somebody, everybody helps everybody when they see they need help to keep wheels turning.
When i cut 100" wood with a landing man i had two landings so the bucker was never in the way. The bucker should always unhook chokers, the skidder operator shouldn't have to get off the skidder on the landing.
 I had a few guys say thats not my job, or i'm not getting payed to do that. If they didn't want to work as a team, then this wasn't the job for them.
 I gave a guy 2 warnings, the third was a boot in the butt down the road. I hated firing somebody, i had to keep in mind i couldn't have my equipment busted up, or somebody lazy standing around it wasn't fair to the rest of the crew.

 I had a good friend driving semi for me, every other day the truck burned 10 gals more fuel. Well that was pretty easy to figure out where the fuel was going. I had his tank filled at the house, and took so much out of his paycheck every week.

kylogger I've worked with guys that were just in my way, i could cut an skid more alone. I'm not talking greenhorn guys, these guys have worked in the woods all their life. But they had no method, i believe that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. They wouldn't lesson, they told me i was doing it wrong O-BOY , O-BOY, enough is enough. This was about the time when i hired the wife. I have to tell you guys, boy had i wasted a lot of years trying to find good help, She is the best operator i ever had, a natural with skidder, she worked me like a dog. She knew how to make a Detroit talk. She learned on a C5D, but loved the S8 IH Power Shift, she ran it 12 yrs, sold it in 96.
 Shes embarrassed of this pic because shes out of shape. Its been 16 yrs sense she quit logging, she weighted 102, and solid muscle.

Heres a picture of us, this was taken last yr, she's a Detroit Queen, full throttle.
 

 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.


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