Still making benches

[Downstream]

When I first started making benches they looked very nice, but unfortunately they were horribly uncomfortable to sit in.  I did a little research and turns out there are specific design criteria that professional furniture designers use to make more comfortable chairs,benches,etc.  I began to experiment  with some of them and finally created a template that I could quickly use to make more consistently comfortable benches.  I still remember my first customer that came by to pick up the bench I made for him using that template.  Instantly, he noticed how naturally comfortable it was vs some of my older versions that I had scattered around my property.  I still use that template today for any bench with a back, but also do a test fit up with different seat to back offsets/gaps which can make a huge difference.

[Ljohnsaw]

Downstream,
I am constantly setting aside stuff that looks like it would be good for benches, only to chop it up later into firewood as I'm not sure how to get started.  Would you be willing to share your "template(s)"?

[WV Sawmiller]

Downstream,

   I assume you are talking about the benches with backs being uncomfortable. So far I have only made simple backless benches and in all honesty they are very comfortable. I make mine with a seat height of 17".

    I have made benches as narrow as approximately 6" and find that at 2" thick it still makes a very sturdy and comfortable bench. I started off making them about 4" thick but had a nice 2" slab I decided to try out and I have done that ever since as it is plenty strong and much lighter weight. I feel I need at least 2" of thickness to hold the tenon tight enough but if someone had a thinner board/slab they wanted to used they could add a thin board or piece of plywood to get the extra thickness needed.

   If making long benches you can just add extra legs along the way. I see no reason I could not make a 20'+ bench if I had a need or order for one. Since I cut the legs to the correct height on my sawmill I have complete confidence they would sit square to the floor on a concrete slab or house floor. In theory I could make them much longer than the mill if needed.

[doc henderson]

 
 

 

 



a few benches with backs for ideas

[WV Sawmiller]

Doc,

   Now for the 60 cent question - how comfortable are they? The middle one looks like the clear winner to me. My scale may be off but the last one looks like the seat is too wide to comfortably lean back against the back and the first one looks like the back is too straight up. Goldilocks says the long cedar Prairie Hills bench looks just right. ;)

[Downstream]

Here is one of the live edge bench styles I have made along with the template for the 1-piece live edge legs.  I have made and sold a number of this style.  It is my favorite kind for around the firepit or a good sitting/thinking spot.  Rock solid and comfortable.  Very heavy so don't have to worry about the wind or an individual carrying it away.  A couple of 90 degree corner stiffeners on inside of legs to seat bottom and they will stay solid even if moving them around.

 

 

 

[doc henderson]

@WV Sawmiller I did not sit on any of them for any length of time.  the middle was my son's eagle scout project at his middle school.  top and bottom were donated projects to a motorcycle club auction fund raiser.  so they were all very comfortable.       there are published angles for seat backs.  but I do not remember them off the top of my head.   8) 8) 8)

[WV Sawmiller]

Doc,

   From Downstream's post it looks like 105* is the magic angle. That does look comfortable from seeing his benches. My question was largely the width of the seat especially with a back. If it is too wide it looks like it would be too hard to actually keep your legs hanging comfortably and still lean against the back. Your son seemed to have really nailed the perfect seat width and back angle on his project. 

[doc henderson]

What's your angle @WV Sawmiller  :D :D :D.  adding a back adds to the complexity, and I only do it for others who request it.  or in the case of an auction for charity, I assume it may bring more.  there is the issue of scale, and as you point out, the angle.  but now in addition to just resisting gravity (keeping your butt off the ground) you also have torque when you lean back.  Some kid is going to eventually stand on the bench and jump up and down.  

[WV Sawmiller]

Doc,

   As I mentioned I have never added a back to a bench but it sure adds several degrees of complexity. I like the 105* angle Downstream used. I got a 30" and a 36" top back today from my friend who added the Lichtenburg engraving. They are still in the back seat of my truck but I'll get a picture of them and post it later today. I assume the Rite Leg bench back holders use the proper angle should I take the plunge and buy a set from them.

[WV Sawmiller]

 

These will be my next 2 benches - a 30" and 36" piece that I retrieved today from my friend who did the Lichtenburg wood burning/engraving on them. They have been air drying about a year. I cut them off a 6' slab and cut off 6" that was splitting on one end. I sanded the tops and cut the mortises in place before I took them to him. They are about 16" wide which is really wider than I prefer for a bench. A 12" slab makes a really nice bench. These have slight cup that could have been sanded out with enough time, sander belts and elbow grease but really it makes a nice comfortable seat so I'll leave it. The engraving darkened the pieces. I plan to put a coating of tung oil on them. Epoxy gurus sometimes fill the etching with brightly colored metallic powder which really accentuates the figure. I don't have that experience or skill.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I made 2 pair of legs for the Lichtenburg benches above but had no wood glue. I picked up some on the way home yesterday and decided to make them today.


I laid an old moving blanket on a pair of sawhorses to protect the top while adding the legs.  

I glued and hammered in the legs with a baby sledge. Note the assorted leg lengths. All will be cut to the same angle and height on bench leg adjusting machine later in the process.

I cut the excess length off using a Japanese pull saw. While doing this I dropped one bench and broke a leg off in the mortise. I took a short sticker and drove the top out.


I measured the broken leg and realized it was long enough I could just cut a new tenon on it so I clamped it in the vise and reworked and reinstalled it.


I cut the excess off. I see they are lighter and redder than the bench tops. I guess the Lichtenburg processing darkened the top. Hopefully when I apply Tung oil it will darken the ends and make them match better.


I put the benches upside down in the bench leg adjustment machine, clamped it tightly, set the height to 17" and trimmed all 4 legs to the same height and angle with one pass. Now all I have left to do is apply tung oil and find a new home for them.

[WV Sawmiller]

  I went ahead and put a couple of coats of pure tung oil on both the new RO Lichtenburg benches today and it did darken the ends of the tenon a little. I'll put another coat or two on over the next few days and hope it darkens them more to help match the surface of the benches. Keep your fingers crossed.


 

[Lostinmn]

That Lichtenburg sure looks good!

[WV Sawmiller]

  Yes, the guy does a real good job using his homemade burner he made from the transformer of an old microwave. People use neon sign transformers too. They can be real dangerous. The engraving did darken the surface of the bench a lot but you will never have the same design on 2 pieces.

   It would be interesting to take 2 bookbatched pieces and try to start at matching points on each and see how closely the current flowed on each.

   Some people fill the etching with a contrasting color and epoxy which is a nice touch but I don't work with epoxy enough to do that.

[Don P]

I have no experience but I think they use a "doctored" water to make the surface more conductive. It may be that whatever he is using is staining the surface a little rather than the burning process darkening the wood. It might be worth quizzing him on whether and what he is using and getting a little bit to experiment on some leg ends with. Personally I think they look just fine as is, but I have been told all my taste is in my mouth.

[WV Sawmiller]

Don,

   He does add baking soda to the water he wipes the surface with to help carry the current. He told me if I wanted to lighten them to use some type of acid (I forget the exact name) and said it would help bleach it back out but the color is not that much darker than normal. I think the darkening is more from the heat than the baking soda. I figure there will be just as many people who prefer the dark as would the lighter color so its a wash IMHO.

[doc henderson]

my engravings get smoke near the letters and pictures also.  the acid may be oxalic acid, also called wood bleach.  could try one with the legs in already.  or of course you could, ... not do through tenons.  

[firefighter ontheside]

I put my tenon cutter on a drill for the first time today and turned a tenon on a piece of 2x2 oak.  It was a little scary at first, but once it got going it was easier.  Doc gave me a hint to wet the wood a little to make it a little softer for cutting.  

Please be careful with the lichtenburg stuff.  We had a call a while back where a guy died a while back from being electrocuted while trying to do it.

[doc henderson]

here is my thread with all the tenon cutter info.

What up Benches? in General Woodworking (forestryforum.com)

[firefighter ontheside]

Thanks Doc.  I read thru it.  That's what made me realize that I do NOT have a lee valley cutter.  Mine is some other brand.  The guy I bought it from had 2 cutters and the other one was a Lee VAlley.  I didn't buy that one from him.  I wanted the smaller one.

[WV Sawmiller]

FFOTS,

   Great to hear you are a Tenonologist now. :D Are you using square stock for legs? If so remember to take a draw knife to the corners so the cutter head slips over it easier. Round stock works better but it depends on the look you want. I now mostly use 2-1/4" square stock then cut the corners off on my table saw leaving a generally octagon shape that works well. Here is one I was recutting after I broke the leg in the bench when I dropped it. I had enough extra length to just cut a new tenon on the same leg.


I don't know how you are clamping your legs. I use a simple vise clamped to an upright on my pole barn. Note I have 3X6 piece of cribbing under the leg to help support it during cutting. You can see the shape on the leg with the corners knocked off. It cuts as easily as round stock IMHO. Good luck - have fun. Experiment with different sizes and styles of legs till you find what you like best.

[Lostinmn]

Thanks Doc.  I read thru it.  That's what made me realize that I do NOT have a lee valley cutter.  Mine is some other brand.  The guy I bought it from had 2 cutters and the other one was a Lee VAlley.  I didn't buy that one from him.  I wanted the smaller one.

If you don't have a big slow speed drill already, I recommend the Milwaukee Model 1660-6.  A 450 RPM, single speed with a extra pipe handle on it.  
Really was night and day compared to my big variable speed drill.  Big, slow with monster torque and huge handles for leverage, really is the ticket.

[firefighter ontheside]

Thanks for the tips guys.  I made a bench this morning and have no process and clearly need to come up with some infrastructure like you guys have.  I was clamping to saw horses and threw them around when the cutter would catch.  No, I didnt cut the corners off.  That would have helped.  I need to get a different drill.  My old Milwaukee 1/2" hole shooter was not happy with me and I was not happy with it.  My bench came out pretty good and my next should be better.  I cut off the legs with sawmill as slow as the power feed would go.



 

[Old Greenhorn]

That came out quite nice! How did you secure the legs? Wedge or no wedge? Tite bond glue?