Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures

ManjiSann · October 31, 2019, 09:14:20 AM

Finished the milling jig and even though it was freezing cold I wanted to try it out. I layered up for warmth and off I went.

I started off on a small log to practice

Ended up with some nice boards I can use for shelves or doors or something on an upcoming project

That went quite well so I moved on to the bigger log I have. Getting it up on the saw horses on my own was a bit of a challenge. Put it on some stumps first then was able to lift one end at a time and slip a saw horse under.

Got it oriented for the first cut, attached my super accurate space age guide on it and started sawing.

Got the first flitch off (I think I used that term correctly ??? ??? ) Rotate and again installed my amazing guide

Cut and now I have my very first cant!

Was able to get 5 nice 5/4 boards ranging from 7" to 9" wide and slightly under 4' long. Ripped the other edge off using the table saw. I stickered them in my basement as I have nowhere else to put them for now. I think it should work fairly well given how little humidity there is during the winter months, might even help raise the humidity in the house a wee bit

I figure they'll dry down to around 1" and then I'll have enough left to plane any warp or grooves out and end up with very nice wood.

Decided to keep the last flitch and dry it out. If it dries well I'm thinking I'll try and make a little bench for around the fire pit. I've seen some very nice benches by a few of the forum members so I was inspired, thanks guys!

All in all the jig worked quite well. I did find that the side I can adjust for length isn't square in the vertical so it causes problems when adjusting height. I'll have to weld a new side for that. Because of the funky angle it also causes a slight bow in the bar.

@BUGGUTZ posted some improvement suggestions in another thread I was asking about drilling the bar. I think I'll be implementing at least one of them. On the saw side I need a rail or skid that helps it move over the uneven surface of the bark. It's just a square tube right now and it hangs up to easily.

I think I will also be adding an auxiliary oiler. I'm not positive it's absolutely needed on this short of a bar but I am certain if I step up to a longer b/c that it will be required. May as well build one now and work the kinks out so when I HAVE to have it I'm not scrambling.

Also have to figure out why a couple of the screws on the saw keep vibrating out. Lost the screw for the chain brake again, good thing I bought several spares. The bolt in the nose also kept backing out so I need to sort that.

Brandon

WV Sawmiller · October 31, 2019, 09:28:16 AM

Looking good. Congratulations. I am surprised at the use of sawhorses. I thought with CSM the user just rolled the log around a bit to get it stable the sawed through and through. I was surprised to see you rotated and made a cant - again something I did not think was common with CSM. I thought the users typically just sawed all unedged flitches then edged them afterwards. Your process seems to be working well. Keep them posts a'coming.

Southside · October 31, 2019, 09:28:49 AM

Good job!! Not sure I would want to have a running chainsaw mill on a round log, on top of saw horses though.

Brad_bb · October 31, 2019, 12:24:46 PM

Yeah, good job. I did laugh when I saw your first log, think "Could you pick a shorter log?". Haha. Actually short ones can be more difficult to fixture and keep stable while you mill. I've done some short ones, but they were crotches.

doc henderson · October 31, 2019, 04:42:37 PM

looks like you are having fun, making stuff with what you have. My dad used to peen the threads on a trouble bolt, or could use locktite. not enough room to double nut. does or can the bolt go all the way trough and put a nut on the backside, or even a nylox or other locking nut? looks good. best regards!
be sure to coat your ends with something, like anchorseal of at least old latex paint.
can you remove the bucking spikes and fab a roller or skid in its place?

ManjiSann · October 31, 2019, 06:16:51 PM

WV - Not sure how CSM is supposed to be done. I watched a few youtubes on it and one guy used saw horses, and I don't like kneeling for long or bending over so I used the saw horse. That log was probably one of the biggest I can get away with that though due to the weight. In the future I'll likely have to mill on the ground. I figured by making a cant I'd have at least one "finished" edge to use on my table saw. It seemed easier than trying to use a circular saw and straight edge later. On bigger logs I'll likely saw 3 sides so I have finished boards.

Southside - Awww come on, you gotta live a little ;) Seriously though, I had boards on either side of the log to reduce the chance of it rolling. While not rock solid I felt it was quite stable.

Brad - Haha I figured someone would get a kick out of that short first log. I picked it as I figured if I messed it up it wouldn't be a huge waste. Also, up until about a week ago I haven't really been collecting large logs from the trees I'd cut down. Now that I have the mill I'll be looking at logs with an eye to maximizing what I can mill. I'm also limited with a small truck and no heavy equipment I can use to move stuff nor wild areas I can mill logs at the moment. I'll be keeping my eyes open for opportunities now

@doc henderson - I kept reading that as peening heads on trouble bolts, now that I've read it correctly as threads, are you saying he'd deliberately mess the threads up a bit to make it harder to get in and out? I ask as I've toyed with that idea and knowing someone did it successfully may influence my decision. The bolt near the sprocket that kept coming loose has a lock washer on one side but I wasn't cranking it super tight due to some non square issues in the build causing the bar to bow. I think if I'd been able to solidly tighten it down it wouldn't have come loose but I'll remember the peening trick if it continues to be an issue once I've fixed the other issues. I may try and peen AND loctite the screw in the chain brake handle. I bought some liquid blue loctite to use. I think the tape would have worked but I was using it too sparely but will try the liquid stuff now.

I have some parafin wax in a paint can, I'll have to warm it up and use it to seal the ends. I've read conflicting info on that, some say that any splits won't go past the stickers so no sealing is needed. Since I have the wax I may as well use it.

I could remove the bucking spikes but there's no need. The saw side vertical riser, thingy, what would it be called? Anyhow, it has a 6" rail that I will probably weld a skid to.

I'm 99% happy with the milling jig and the results. Most of the things I want to change are fairly minor, but when you build stuff you always find things you want to do different. Since it only cost about $22 is steel tube I'll keep tinkering till I am completely happy with it... so I'll keep tinkering forever :D :D

Brandon

doc henderson · October 31, 2019, 06:25:18 PM

yes he peened the threads! see you had to work for it. I did not catch that. He grew up poor and would not have gone to the hardware store, if they even had Loctite then. just a touch as you do not want to ruin too much thread. You need a trailer to haul with and maybe build a rack to mill logs on incorporated into the trailer. or build heavy saw horses out of your timber and then you can screw your side supports into it making it like all one unit. you do not need my ideas as you are doing great, but it is fun for us old guys to throw them out. have a great day!

doc henderson · October 31, 2019, 06:31:05 PM

end coating according the experts is vital to reduce waste and best if done early @GeneWengert-WoodDoc . the split often does not go past the second sticker and some recommend double stickering at the ends. If you are like me, at first you just cannot wait to cut stuff, later you goals become to produce better product for yourself, or for sale.

can you put a spacer washer in-between the trouble spot so you can wrench the bolt tight without torqueing (not twerking @Old Greenhorn

) your frame.

ManjiSann · October 31, 2019, 07:48:48 PM

Quote from: doc henderson on October 31, 2019, 06:25:18 PM
yes he peened the threads! see you had to work for it. I did not catch that. He grew up poor and would not have gone to the hardware store, if they even had Loctite then. just a touch as you do not want to ruin too much thread. You need a trailer to haul with and maybe build a rack to mill logs on incorporated into the trailer. or build heavy saw horses out of your timber and then you can screw your side supports into it making it like all one unit. you do not need my ideas as you are doing great, but it is fun for us old guys to throw them out. have a great day!

I always appreciate peoples ideas even if I don't end up using them so always feel free to throw them out! I hadn't considered incorporating some sort of rack to mill on in the trailer :P
I've got some ideas for a trailer, just have to wait till finances and time permit. Until then I'll make do with what I have which isn't too bad all things considered

Brandon

ManjiSann · October 31, 2019, 07:52:52 PM

Quote from: doc henderson on October 31, 2019, 06:31:05 PM
end coating according the experts is vital to reduce waste and best if done early @GeneWengert-WoodDoc . the split often does not go past the second sticker and some recommend double stickering at the ends. If you are like me, at first you just cannot wait to cut stuff, later you goals become to produce better product for yourself, or for sale.

can you put a spacer washer in-between the trouble spot so you can wrench the bolt tight without torqueing (not twerking @Old Greenhorn ) your frame.

Well the point of joining the forum was to gain knowledge from those with more experience so I'd be foolish not to listen. I'll get the wax melting and once the wife gets back from taking the littlest one trick-or-treating I'll go down and seal the ends.
I tried to put a washer to take up some of the problem but it didn't work. I'll take a pic and post it just so people can understand what I'm talking about. It's an easy fix, just weld up a new adjustable cross piece. I still have some tubing around that'll work.
... twerking...

Brandon

Old Greenhorn · October 31, 2019, 08:17:31 PM

Quote from: doc henderson on October 31, 2019, 06:31:05 PM

can you put a spacer washer in-between the trouble spot so you can wrench the bolt tight without torqueing (not twerking @Old Greenhorn ) your frame.

Just to be clear here, 'twerking' refers to a pathophisilogical condition referring to the human body (the specific definition depends on if you are a physician from Kansas, or an old guy from upstate NY). Torquing refers to radial application of force. Tweaking refers to that elusive, yet effective application of adjustments that creates a state of bliss. I though we had already been through this Doc?
I don't think Manjisan needs any twerking or torquing, he just needs a little tweaking.
BTW Manji, congrats on the boards, the journey begins......

Nebraska · October 31, 2019, 08:56:55 PM

Torquing, tweaking, and twerking all in the same thread go figure. ;D Nice job on the mill and on the first boards! If your kids have a swing set and you had a come along or a small chain hoist I bet you could raise those logs easier the man glitter that lands underneath would be cushion if the kids fell off the swing. ;)

SawyerTed · October 31, 2019, 09:12:52 PM

Great job! A little bit of lumber for some projects and you made it yourself with a CSM you built! Congratulations!

The sawhorses worry me too. Personally I'd want something more substantial. I see the sawhorses tipping over and taking your chainsaw down with the log. It could be bad. I see a heavy bench in your future with a cherry picker engine hoist or gantry crane with chain hoist for lifting your logs. They are pretty cheap on FB Marketplace or CL. Just a thought.

Southside · October 31, 2019, 11:10:44 PM

Oh, believe me I do "live a little" - see my post in the "Yellow jackets" thread if you want to get an idea of my mind set. What I don't enjoy doing is visiting @doc henderson when he is working, much rather visit with him at Jakes or another non-work related event. ;D

doc henderson · October 31, 2019, 11:18:59 PM

I am working now @Southside if you need anything, I have a frozen suppository with your name on it, we can fix you right up!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Have you tried out you ruler yet? If nothing else, your wife will have it to use on you if needed!

.
ps it is very hard to write a name on a suppository.

Southside · October 31, 2019, 11:33:52 PM

No actual use of the ruler by myself or my wife yet.... :D Years back I walked into an ER after getting bitten in both hands by my own K-9. It was messy, lots of blood, hair, torn uniform, etc. While walking past folks in the sitting area I simply said "You should see the other guy" and left it at that, shocked faces for sure!!

Well, we go through the whole wound cleaning thing, not going to stitch it, yadda, yadda, yadda, been through it too many times. Get to the anti-biotics part, Rocephin, and I asked the ER doc if he could just do IM as I really didn't feel like sitting around for a 1/2 hour for an IV drip of the stuff. Sure he says, and yes I know how much it stings. Well the visiting nurse comes in and gives me the shot in my butt muscle, and boy oh boy did it hurt. A while later I am still shaking and the ER doc asks if I have any allergies, to which I tell him I figure it's probably just the adrenaline wearing off, but yea it still stings pretty badly. He turns to the nurse and asks her how much lidocaaine she had mixed in, the look on her face said it all - she didn't know she was supposed to mix it in. The good news was the pain in my butt took the focus off of my hands...

So to sum things up, I am rather sure I know what your frozen suppository feels like.... :D

doc henderson · October 31, 2019, 11:43:11 PM

at least now, the doc has to order the lidocaine so maybe he forgot. you are a good sport. 8)

Brucer · November 01, 2019, 12:04:56 AM

Quote from: ManjiSann on October 31, 2019, 09:14:20 AM

... On the saw side I need a rail or skid that helps it move over the uneven surface of the bark. It's just a square tube right now and it hangs up to easily.

... I could remove the bucking spikes but there's no need. The saw side vertical riser, thingy, what would it be called? Anyhow, it has a 6" rail that I will probably weld a skid to.

I created a skid for mine from a piece of square tubing about a foot long. I cut a triangular notch in the front end and bent and welded the side to create a taper that would ride over rough surfaces. The extra length tended to average out irregularities in the bark.

Rather than weld the skid to the mill, I fastened it beneath the bar using two pieces of threaded rod with 4 nuts on each. Two nuts clamped the rod to that short 6" rail on the riser and the other two clamped the skid to the rod. I left enough space between the skid and the bolt holding the bar to the riser so I could slide the chain out if I needed to change it. The skid extended about 6" ahead of the bar.

Because the skid was below the bar it kept the upper part of the mill well clear of any bumps on the log.

ManjiSann · November 01, 2019, 09:28:43 AM

The saw horses are a lot more stable than they must appear. They are "rated" for 2500 lbs each (if my memory serves) though I don't have any intentions of trying that much weight. As for the log rolling, I made sure it was stable as I thought about the log rolling and taking a running chainsaw with it.. the original SAW documentary

I appreciate all the concerns, I know it's because everyone cares and no one wants to see me or anyone else hurt, so thank you

@Nebraska the man glitter reference made me smile

The idea of a combination swing lift is intriguing. My wife and youngest have asked for a swing a couple times... maybe I should say yes. Two swings and a bar that extends a ways out with a chain hoist on it might be just the ticket along with a couple stout saw horses or bench to hold large logs. Hmmmm I see another welding project for next year :D :D :D

@SawyerTed A stout bench would be awesome but I'm limited on space right now. I'm hoping to build a shed with an extended roof on either side I can use to store a trailer under and/or as a sawing area and drying area but it's not likely to happen for several years. Until then I'm limited to things I can either store outside or can collapse and stack in a small area. I may try and do some sort of combination swing set gantry crane set up, it'd be an easier sell to the family :D

@Old Greenhorn That was a very well written definition of the three words... did you ever do a stint writing for Websters? ;)

@Southside I haven't read the yellowjacket thread for a bit but I was laughing hard at "the c4 is so they know I'm serious" :D :D :D .... do I dare ask about the ruler???

@Brucer thanks for the suggestion about the skid I may try it.

I'm playing hooky from work today, the littlest decided to smash her finger in the door last night just before going out to Trick-or-Treat. I'm sure it hurt real bad but doesn't look like any more damage than the expected swelling and a bruise. Hey Doc and anyone else that deals with injured patients, how do you handle people that come to you to make it better but won't listen and follow instructions because they think it'll just hurt more?

Anyhow, I plan to make this time off work count so I'll probably weld up the new adjustable bar to try and fix the angle issue and then either mill some new boards or I may cut the maple I free hand cut a while back down into rough 2x2 or 3x3 sizes and sticker them in the basement so I can have the garage space back and maybe reduce the number of ratchet straps holding them down. Whatever I do I'm sure it'll involve more man glitter in my pockets

Brandon

doc henderson · November 01, 2019, 10:40:05 AM

@ManjiSann . It depends on their age and or level of intoxication. always be honest so they trust you the next time. establish a rapport and then pull that sticker out or what ever. drilling a hole in a finger nail to let a blood collection out can be tuff even in so called "grown ups" @Old Greenhorn . they think it will hurt, and it will if there is not enough blood to buffer the underlying skin. after 30 years of experience I can gain the confidence of about 80% of people including kids. the other 20% will give you gray thin hair and a foul tongue... just got off a 12 hours shift, went to two meetings can you tell?... and now in bed, watching news and typing. sorry for the visual @Southside . so the short answer is "good luck".

Old Greenhorn · November 01, 2019, 12:22:35 PM

Not sure how I got called out on this. I am just a lowly EMT, but I will second everything Doc said. I'll add the caveat that is also depends on how fast they are bleeding. Little holes, LOTS of time, big holes, not so much time. But then, all bleeding stops eventually. :D
Patience is key along with a calm steady voice.
Funny story, years ago (6?) I removed a splinter from my step-grandson because nobody else could seem to get at it. His brothers watched. I got the thing out without any hollering or crying, he was amazed. From that day forward all the brothers will only let me remove anything they can't scratch out themselves. They will wait two days if they have to. (It helps to have very fine surgical tweezers, they can't really feel much from those fine points.)

ManjiSann · November 02, 2019, 07:56:28 AM

@doc henderson and @Old Greenhorn thank you both for your advice and sharing experience on how to work with patients (and patience ;) ) I'll have to work on the calm part. I'm always honest even when I know it'll scare them because, as you pointed out, I figure if I'm honest when I tell them unpleasant things they'll trust me more if I tell them "this really won't hurt." I don't think there's enough blood under the nail to drill it and make it work so unfortunately she'll have to wait for it to heal on it's own... how would you go about drilling it though? I've heard of heating a sewing needle to being pretty hot and letting that burn/melt its way through the nail, or thought of using a very small drill bit and spinning it with my fingers. Also, how soon after the injury do you need to do it before the blood will have clotted and there's no longer any value in drilling? Oh and Doc, from what I've read, I'd take your bedside manner after a 12 hour shift any day.

I was fairly productive. I tried to cut up some of the twistier maple boards I had cut a few months back... man I wish I'd had the CSM when I'd done that but I kept telling myself I'd have never bought the bigger saw or made the mill had I not tried it the other way. A few of the boards may be beyond salvaging with the tools I have. I may try and make a sled of sorts for my router to see if I can level some of the other ones before running them through a planer. So long story long, I made a lot of saw dust but no real progress on that front.

I did weld up the new adjustable part for the CSM and it looks like it came out fine.

The previous arm was ever so slightly no straight up and down so when I tightened the bar tip in the jig it caused the bar to bow just a little which caused the chain to run a little harder than needed and made adjusting height a little more complicated than I wanted to deal with.

Here's a pic with some lines I drew in to try and show what I mean. Even if the bar was on it would have been hard to see in a pic as it was pretty slight but enough to be an issue:

If the red line is the bar and the blue is an exagerated representation of the vertical arm, when you tightened the bolt the bar would try to conform and get messed up. When I welded it up the first time I used 1.25" OD for the sleeves and 1" for the middle part and I didn't get the middle perfectly square so the vertical bar was off a few degrees... I hope that makes sense.

Anyhow, welded up a new on using 1.25" tubing for all parts to make alignment easier

Here's my nifty stick welder

Love this welder. I'm still learning how to use it correctly and struggle to get the arc struck sometimes but with time and practice I'm certain I'll become proficient. For anyone that read my I Feel Blessed post, I believe I posted about the welder I was blessed to buy and this is the one. Solid, reliable, does the job with a minimum of fuss.

The new bar slides a bit easier than the old one and everything matches up well enough that if there's any deflection I can't detect it with my super accurate Mk.1 Eyeball so I'm happy.

Hopefully I'll have the energy and drive to make some more boards when I get home from work. Speaking of which, it's time to clock in so stay safe y'all

Brandon

Old Greenhorn · November 02, 2019, 08:06:28 AM

Quote from: ManjiSann on November 02, 2019, 07:56:28 AM
@doc henderson and @Old Greenhorn thank you both for your advice and sharing experience on how to work with patients (and patience ;) ) I'll have to work on the calm part. I'm always honest even when I know it'll scare them because, as you pointed out, I figure if I'm honest when I tell them unpleasant things they'll trust me more if I tell them "this really won't hurt." I don't think there's enough blood under the nail to drill it and make it work so unfortunately she'll have to wait for it to heal on it's own... how would you go about drilling it though? I've heard of heating a sewing needle to being pretty hot and letting that burn/melt its way through the nail, or thought of using a very small drill bit and spinning it with my fingers. Also, how soon after the injury do you need to do it before the blood will have clotted and there's no longer any value in drilling?

I am gonna let Doc take this one as he has tons more experience on this having done it many times more that I ever will. I only do this on myself, and on others I have instructed and coached them through the process. I have never had to do this on a pediatric patient, that can be tough, no matter what. Good luck.

doc henderson · November 02, 2019, 08:10:56 AM

first great job on the mill frame. the key to the fingernail thing, is knowing when it will make a difference. if there is only a speck of blood, and it does not contribute to the pain, do not poke it. if the nail is floating on an ocean of blood and you can push the nail down and it moves, then there is a blood cushion. the blood under the nail will usually not clot. draining the blood can reduce pain, and make it less likely you will hydraulically loose the nail. nails are made from the same stuff as hair and is not live tissue, except for at the base under the cuticle. drill bit, hot paper clip, needle. I use a pen cautery, and even with "grown men" @Old Greenhorn it may take a lot of reassurance and 5 attempts and approaching the finger with a red hot wire. the key is if there is not enough blood under the nail, it will hurt worse when you are done.

doc henderson · November 02, 2019, 08:17:12 AM

we developed a process for getting objects out of noses by blowing in the opposite nostril. after trying for years to coach and reassure the age group that puts stuff in their nose, we started having a little fun with it. if a nasal foreign body pops up on the screen, it is like a fire drill. everyone grabs the tubing and mushroom suction device, and before mom and child walk through the door we are ready. we instantaneously tell mom what we are doing , and blow into the opposite nare and out pops the bead. the kid is so surprised they sometimes forget to cry and are ready to go home 2 minutes after they arrive. like many things in life, nothing can replace education and experience. we did not develop the blowing part, but gave up on 30 minutes of trying to gain the confidence of a 2 year-old.