First time log cabin build

[archerj]

Greetings, first time posting on the forum. I have been searching for info here for a while on building a log cabin. I put in a foundation last fall. My plan was to have this thing built by now but I am just now starting to mill my logs and start the actual build soon. I still have so many questions, and am open to any advice. I will just give some info and if anyone would like to chime in or offer suggestions or experiences I'm all ears. Hopefully I don't give too much detail and cause some to lose interest

I will be building a 20 x 24 cabin with Red Pine D logs. A walkout basement, and an 8 x 20 deck with the roof extending over.

We cut the pine logs in the winter of 21/22. Anywhere from 16 ft to 24 foot long, up to approx 16" diameter. I single stacked them on log runners. I moved all the logs with a skidsteer and grapple bucket. Amazing tool by the way. I didn't peel them thinking because I was doing D logs I would just peel the round side after milling. It appears they did not dry hardly at all in one year because of the bark being on. The grubs have chewed everything between the bark and the wood log itself. The bark if not frozen to the log falls right off. I understand I will have to treat the logs to kill the grubs. I don't mind the character they have created( I hope I can make them stop now)

We stacked the logs last year about 1/2 mile away from the build as I wasn't sure where I was going to put it on the property. I recently moved all the logs over to the building site. As all the loggers in the area were too busy to move them for me, I ended up moving 140 logs 10 or 11 at a time with the skidsteer, pickup truck and a flatbed trailer. 

A few pictures of the process...




 

 

 

 

[newoodguy78]

Welcome to the forum. That's quite a project you're into.  
One question I have is what are you going to do as a seal between the logs?

[archerj]

I am milling the logs to be 8" high and as close to 8" horizontal flats as possible. I read where someone mentioned planing a rabbet down the center of the log to help keep them tighter together as they dry and settle. I have been doing that and chamfering a 45 on the inside edges of the logs.








My original thought was to run threaded rod from the basement to the top of the wall to be able to tighten over time as the logs settle. I was thinking that screws may not work because when the logs shrink they would hold them apart, but now I am rethinking that as I see the threads will only be into the bottom log so the smooth shaft should allow settling and if the head is countersunk it should not push up the log above. Should I do a combination of screws and threaded rod? Or do you think the screws will be fine?

I plan on putting 2 rows of foam weatherstripping between the logs. 3/8" x 3/4" log seal. Is 3/8 too thick?








I plan on doing butt and pass corners. Thinking of cutting a tongue and groove style joint. Maybe cut the groove on the pass log and screw a strip on the end of the log for the tongue?

 

 

 

 

[archerj]

newoodguy78

my thought was to use the foam between the logs and then chinking the outside with flexible caulk after a year or so?

[barbender]

 There are log home supply companies that have everything you need. 

 A threaded "through rod" is the best way to tie everything to the foundation, going from top plate all the way down to the foundation.  You can use wooden dowels or rebar to tie rows of logs together for lateral stability. I'd prefer dowels myself.

 I don't know if I'd worry so much about sealing in between the logs, as I would using a good flexible log chinking. If it is air sealed to the outside of the log, the seal between the log faces won't accomplish anything.

[chet]

ArcherJ, that's not by chance you that's building just off Highway 55 in Nelma is it?

[archerj]

Chet, no not me up there. I'm near Lily

[chet]

 I was kinda close, only an hour and a half off.   :D

[Don P]

The foam needs a place to live. If you put a buttton load on foam, it ain't foam no more. Put it in the planed groove. If you use log home screws just countersink the heads and run the screws vertically. We would get each row down tight with those spaced every 2.5-3', even if we were using allthread. You can't pull an entire stack down as tight as if you run them down layer by layer as you stack it. We would also pull the logs in and out to keep the wall as flat as possible.



 

Osha approved, my left foot is over "This is not a step" and Nick is tweaking the log and hanging  over, well, don't look down :D.

That was 30+ years ago. We used lags in holes countersunk for the head and washer below expected shrinkage amount, in an oversized prebore through that log and then a 3/8 lagcan be run into pine or cedar without a pilot in the lower log. if denser wood or larger lag diameter a pilot of 70 to 90% of lag root diameter was also needed. And I'm lugging an electric 1/2" impact and a mile of cord. We were wishing for cordless nuclear powered tools. Batteries and hi tensile log home screws, it happened  :D

[archerj]

Don, thanks for the info. I hope to start laying some logs next week. I guess I'll try a few rows with just the screws and see what it looks like. With my logs being as green as they are do you forsee any issues as long as I countersink the heads enough? 1/2"? I'm assuming the logs in your picture are dried? with green logs( cut a year ago in the winter, not peeled) do you think the threaded rod might be necessary? Maybe I'm worried about nothing. I guess with the foam I shouldn't be worried if the logs shrink and don't settle perfectly. I'm looking for a rustic looking finished product anyway, whats the worst that could happen, i get a few spaces along the logs? the foam should still seal it up right?

BTW I like the look of that tool Nick is using. Do you have any specs on something like that?

OSHA....I've been doing stuff like that for 40+ years. fallen a few times but no injuries...knock on wood:)

[Don P]

 I gave away the last 2 versions a few years ago to the crew that was building one next door, One was steel tube and could flip a car without bending I'm sure. and weighed as much. The next was flat 1/8" aluminum sign material with wood on each side bolted together. The hook on the other side of the log is grabbing near the bottom of the upper log. The outer jaw on the handle is pushing mid/low on the second log down. Depending on which side of the wall the handle is on determines whether you are pulling the top log in or out. We would hold a speed square across the joint as we lagged and used that tool to create flat walls. "Dead flat and dollar bill tight".

Moisture content was probably the most reliable predictor of happy clients. IMO, you'll need to chink in a year or 3. If you start with dry logs you'll need to caulk in a year or 3. If I'm wrong, cool!

I wouldn't sink the heads less than 1/2". "Log Hogs" are larger diameter but have more pull, 3/8 lags have more pull yet. It's about diameter, depth of penetration, and density of the wood... mostly  :D. The lags pull better but are about 1/4 the tensile strength of the log screws. I liked having a selection

I've been biting my tongue but,

These logs have been cooking in their juices for 2 years already? You haven't installed any yet, they are still green. That is not a good start, recycling already has a healthy jump start on it ... are you sure you want to use that wood there? Can you call a friend for fresh logs and use that for panelling, flooring, sheathing, etc? I've seen several rot out from under folks before they got it dried in. Borate would be another option but I'd restock now if at all possible.

We predrilled for electric with a 1" ship auger. We marked up the floor with openings, electric, wall layout, etc and drilled electric at each row connecting the holes and using a stick of 5/8" allthread with vice grips jammed to it as a plunger/rasp. We chopped for the boxes on the bench where you are comfy rather than on your knees. Keep holes covered from rain every night with scraps.



 

[archerj]

 

 



Here is my method of cutting my D Logs. Because the logs are all different diameters and not all straight( some I even have to cut shorter to get them to work) and tapered some quite a bit.

First I find the straightest side of the log, this will be my round side, and I put that up against my stops, larger end toward the blade. then I mark out each end,  I use a template that marks out an 8" tall with 8" top and bottom flat. Then I raise or lower my blade to the top of my marked out D. I just read the scale, and then go to the other end and measure off the bed and adjust that end with a bar and shims ( have a few different thickness or tapered slabwood) until I'm close to the same height( I try and get within a 1/4")

Then I start up the mill and get what boards I can as I work down to the line. 

Then I rotate the log counterclockwise looking at the butt end and put the flat against the stop. I then double check with the square to make sure my blade cuts square to the first cut. For some reason most times I have to tweak it a little. (I'm probably being too picky) I also check my end heights again and shim if necessary.

Then slab some boards off again, rotate one last time and slab boards again down to 8"

So the end result is all logs are perfectly the same uniform 8" height. The top and bottom widths vary because of the shape of the logs and the variances in straightness. I would have never guessed that so many of these logs would be that crooked:) 

Thats one of my concerns once I start laying the logs is the difference in width from one log to the next. If I will have to try and shape down the wider portions to match the next log?

When I am planing my groove I try and determine which side is the widest if there is a difference and plane that side(which is the bottom of my log) thinking it would be better to have the above log wider than the previous log for water run off purposes.

I'm not sure what it will look like after chinking? Because my logs are not shaped to size its not going to look as uniform but I guess it is what it is.

[archerj]

Don, no 1 year since we felled them. I was going to treat them with Armor Guard. Do you recommend something different? My thought was to spray the touching sides while I build.(maybe not necessary as they are the cut sides?) And then sand or sand blast the outside and treat?
They look really good when I mill them, everything is sound. I only see some discoloration on the round side under the bark in spots. 

[Don P]

As soon as I posted you put up a pic of a beautiful looking log  :D, no looks fine.

The borates diffuse in on the wet, you'll get the mostest the deepest right off the saw. I get a sack of solubor at the farm supply and mix it 1 lb/gal of water and soak the wood right off the saw as we stack it. Then the salt is diffusing in deeper before the cells dry. I think armour gard is a poly glycol borate? if so use it when you clean up the outside to do that treat, the glycol rewets the wood better than water. The other name for that family of alcohols is "permanent water". They do dry but slowly so keep wet longer in dry wood to get more penetration.

[archerj]

you almost gave me a heart attack

looking for some solubor now

Thanks for the help

once I peel all the bark off, much of it is still frozen on, do you think I should spray the same solution on until I sand them down? Or do you think I should sand them and treat before building with them?
My thought was to build, get the roof on and then work on sanding the outside.

[Don P]

My feeling is it is cheap protection and easy enough to do if you have the sprayer or bucket and roller there and ready.

You do need a drawknife. and you are orienting correctly. We would set the next log on the wall and mark any underlaps or overlaps that were greater than ~1/2" on each respective log. You want small overlaps as drip edges. Take it off the wall and remove the offending wood from each log with the drawknife, lift the pig back up and secure it. Oh, blue tape to temporarily mark lag locations, if you shoot blind you'll hit one under you every time.

[archerj]

 


its getting a little sloppy around the mill site. trying to get some logs milled early in the day while the ground is froze but
its not always working out smoothly. Always something pops up to delay progress. Another 8" of snow the other day, but the sun took care of that batch.
forecast this week is for 60's and 70's, no freezing, and dry. so hopefully all the snow will be gone and it can start to dry up.
I have approx 3/4's of my logs milled for the walls. My plan is to start to get some logs screwed together this week, but will see how soft it gets around the foundation. I had quite a bit of sand spread out last fall, hopefully will dry up fast.

[archerj]

Got a few logs screwed down today. 

 

 

 

 

[Don P]

This is one thing we did that might help. We called them story poles but they were really plumb poles. They were a pair of 2x4's nailed to make a corner and then firmly braced plumb. I would write the measurements to the adjoining posts so we could check measures as well as plumbs periodically. It was a good visual to help keep us from crawling in or out. You can see a couple of switch boxes with plastic lumber strapping hanging out of them, our fish tape we would leave for the electricians.




This is the corner joint on those, although above is in SD snow and this one is in WA rain. The butt log is inserted into the pass log 7/8" into a 1" deep notch. There is a 45 degree angled lag between logs and then a 1" vertical hole in the joint, several pumps of caulk and a dowel driven into the hole.



 

[archerj]

Don, thanks for the info. All good tips. one question is why the tongues are cut off on the butt log the last few inches? is it just so they are out of the way for a maul to drive dowel in? I get why they are cut off on the pass log.

It looks like that dowel system would work on butt joints along the wall as well or not necessary?

Do the dowels go down into the previous log below at all?

How many times did you hit the angled lag when drilling dowel holes?

Yesterday I hit a subfloor nail with a brand new bit the first thing drilling a wire hole.  > > :(

[Don P]

I was looking for some detail pics last night. I did a really lousy job of taking detail pics  :D. So uhh yeah, the corner in the pic was my first log home. The butt log did not need removal and the removal on the pass log there was overzealous. It needed just enough to pass the next log over. Wow, sitting here thinking, that was 35 years ago next month. 

I didn't post the pic but yes there was caulk and a dowel at butts as well. I would run the power planer up the ends of butting logs to leave an unseen slight hollow in the middle between logs. If the fit was not tight you can run a sawzall w/12" blade (a stiff one like an "axe" blade) or a handsaw thru the joint to bring them tight. We call it "kerfing" the joint. On more rustic ones the chainsaw did the kerfing. I think the dowels were 8" and the logs ~7-1/2" so a little into the log below but it wasn't a holding amount. I think we were 1/16" oversize on the holes. For depth control, if you put a round of tape on the bit with a "flag" of folded over tape hanging out, that dangling flag will sweep the shavings off the log as you get down to depth.

Only a few times did I hit the lag below in the corner, it aligned with the outer tongue. Use measurement standards to make sure you don't clash. We would also put tape or scraps of foam at each lag location row by row as we went up to avoid hitting the lags in the row under you. Might be worth pencil marks on the floor for nails till you get out of that. Nothing attracts a strike like a new bit! I think it was greenlee, had "nail eater" ships augers. They didn't have the spur on the bottom that is so fragile. But dull is dull after a strike. A clutched drill is a really good idea, I have been beat up by several drills, they are meaner than they look  :D.

Now I'm jealous, have fun! 

[archerj]

Working by myself today, so not a lot done but experimented with a few things.
I have a chain hoist on the end of my jib. This way when working alone I can lift the logs up with the lift, position it a couple inches over the location it will be placed and then lower it slowly into place. Now I just have to figure out how I can control a 20 footer   I have the lift on top of the hill and am reaching all the way across the building and transferring the logs from the skidsteer on the walkout end. So I would be lifting blind without control of the spin when alone. Once it dries up around there I could drive the lift closer to the walkout end which will help. the frost is still coming out so its still a sloppy mess.


 

 

[archerj]

I experimented with shaping the logs today. With the irregularities in the size and shape of my logs there will be differences in the width of the flats of the logs. I used a Lancelot chainsaw grinder attachment to roughly trim the ledge off and shape it somewhat close. A planer to match the butt joints close. 

 Then I used a 4 1/2" sanding disc to clean it up. I just wanted to see if it was going to work before I got too far into the build. It actually works very well. Once I get the roof on I will set up scaffolding and shape and sand the complete outside. 

[archerj]

Don P, great tip on using a planer to rabbet out the middle of the logs on joints. I tried it today on what I had kerfed yesterday with a chainsaw and really made it fit nicer. Then the next joints I did I actually marked the logs and cut with a skilsaw on 3 sides and then finish with a sawzall, and still plane it out. Holy cow almost perfect the first try!

Then I drilled in some dowels. Nice! figured I better countersink them a tad too in case of log shrinkage so I shortened one up a little.

 

Then I cut in an outlet box, and ran some twine for wire fishing

Lots of fun stuff today. 82 degrees, way above my comfort zone > :-[



 

 

 

[archerj]

drilled another wire chase today, first one cut decent after I sharpened the bit last night. Then the second one barely could get it started...what the...


 

 
:D