"Portable Sawmill Business" Is It Worth Getting In To?

[bandmiller2]

That DanG Zopi would make a good preacher,well said.Stick you toe in the water before you jump in. Frank C.

[stumpy]

I think, the first thing you have to do is decide what kind of business you want.  If it's a "I love sawing and I'd like to make extra money from it" you can go down one path.  If it's "I want to make a wage and a profit like a real business" then it's a completely different road.  Both options are completely possible, just different paths. Many people go into the sawmill business and don't last because of a number of reasons. The first of which is they don't accurately identify the real costs of being in business.  Second, they don't realize how much work it is.  The fun part of it is the sawing, but there is much more to it.
Bottom line is, it's easy to make some extra money at your hobby.  It's another thing to make a profitable business out of it.  I'm not trying to discourage you at all, I'm just encouraging you to decide first what you want out of it and then consider all the details.

[Bogue Chitto]

After hurricane Katrina, I bought a LT 40 Sawmill.  People would bring the logs from their home that fell in the storm.  Sawmill was paid for in 6 months.  Now I do it part time when I get home or on the weekend and still make a profit.   

[Buck]

That DanG Zopi would make a good preacher,well said.Stick you toe in the water before you jump in. Frank C.

lol....There was another comment a few days back.."what would Zopi do?" The guy is a real inspiration these days.  smiley_clapping

[Chris Burchfield]

I have an excellent mill with all the horns and whistles.  I saw for myself and very few saw jobs.  I do like sawing, making boards and just operating the mill.  I think it's kinda like welding, one of the hottest jobs in the summer and one of the coldest jobs in the winter.  If you were to do it to replace your f/t job, bought something you had to make notes on, you'd have to be out there in the hottest and coldest of days to make the note.  Then again, until your established, jobs may be far and few between.  By yourself it can be very labor intensive.

Find someone close to you and see if you could tail for the sawyer a couple of days.  That'll maybe give you an idea of the labor involved.  I'm 53 yoa, will be 54 next month, not getting any younger.  Wet green wood is heavy.

[Chuck White]

Find someone close to you and see if you could tail for the sawyer a couple of days.  That'll maybe give you an idea of the labor involved. 

Well said Chris!

I learned by tailing for my FIL one summer and half of the next.
Then, he told me to take the mill and run it, "he had too much stuff to do at home".
We (Sheila and I) did good at it, then the following year we got our own mill!
We've been running it every since, except in Winter.

[Brad_S.]

I do it part time when I get home or on the weekend and still make a profit.

This is what I was trying to convey about "profit". I am guessing what you mean is that you cover the mill payment plus fuel and blades and have beer money left over.
Out of curiosity, have you kept track of the hours you spend moving logs, moving slabs, tweeking the mill, etc? Divide the profit by those hours for an hourly wage. How does that compare to your "real" job wage? Can you make that wage and pay your mortgage, taxes, utilities, insurance etc?
I am not at all slamming on you Bogue Chitto, I understand it is a hobby business for you. This was just an opportunity to get the guys considering going full time to look at what really constitutes profit.
I just wish someone had opened my eyes before I jumped in the deep end!

[tcsmpsi]

Realistically.  Being serious about 'making it a business', requires, first and foremost, the business ins and outs.  Forget all that 'feel good' while you figure.  Business is dollars in and dollars out.    Forget other income, if you have it, and leave it aside.

Business capital. How much do you have?  Will you borrow?  What rate for how long?  How much?  Going in to business, as a service/product oriented submission, is a long term project.  I have started and run two primary businesses for about 20 yrs each (including my current affair).  After 20 yrs of doing a thing, the 'fun' aspect becomes overun by the business aspect.  Liking business, itself....good business...is, I would say, a necessity.  I've always been notably diversified with the structure and applications, which leaves me able to blend a thing in or out of the structure as I see fit. 

When I slipped in the sawmill and other necessary support for the making of lumber from trees, already had the business structure and work the percentages (asset and debit) of milling into the fundamental end of every business year....taxes.

Is sawmilling, as strictly a business proposition, worth getting in to?  To make a living, I would have to know a great deal about the marketing aspect of my potential, realistically, before I could even consider it.

What I have seen a lot of, is that a wide array of business, large and small, is a continual process of 'catching up'.
Any money used in the business, that is not generated by the business, is 'borrowing'.  Even if it is/was your own money from wherever.

For me, the sawmill is another woodworking tool that allows me to utilize my existing resources (trees) and those of others (their trees) to form end products, in a specific manner of balance, to build family assets of diversified type and nature. 
Now, that, is what I find proper.
Long, long ago, I found I had no propensity for the application of "retirement", and have never lived my life in its pursuit.  That means I am always going to have to work for a living.  With that, it is always good to be able to breathe deeply of one's nature of work.  Over the years, I have applied, learned and been positively recognized in many diverse fields.  Those are my 'retirement funds'.

Today, I would suggest being very comprehensive with a keen edge given to caution, in deciding a significant business venture.

[Bogue Chitto]

Brad, you put another light on it.  The profit I was talking about was that I was able to pay for the mill very quickly because of the abundance of hurricane trees that was brought to my farm.  Now that it is part time the profit I make as you said is beer money  ;D. But yes. you do have to take in the other considerations (Health ins., Prop. tax, Mortgages, etc.)

[zopi]

Ought to distill this thread as a guide to starting any business...it is the stuff you do not see, amd   that nobody tells you that you need to know.

[Bogue Chitto]

If you enjoy it then profit is easier to come by.

[Bibbyman]

Having a mill and wanting to saw is only one leg holding up the table. 

You also need some related background to start to understand how to make product on the mill.  From that you'll need to do a lot of studying and practice.   After we'd got our first mill, one brother-in-law confided that another brother-in-law was at a loss as to why we got a sawmill – after all,  I don't know anything about them.  While yes, I'd never sawn on a bandmill,  I had three uncles that ran circle mills and my dad had logged some to a lot most of his life and all of my life.  So I had a lot of exposure.  I had helped build a couple of houses by the time I was 20 years old so I knew a 2x4 from a 1x12.

You'll need to know how to run a business.  There will be accounting to do.  Taxes. Insurance. Keeping expenses, etc.  You will need to understand cash flow and how much money to keep in reserve for breakdowns, insurance, etc.

Still all of the above is not enough.  You'll need to be an entrepreneur.  You'll need to know or learn how to promote your business and to target the business you want.  Not all business is good business.

Most essential is having an understanding wife with a good paying job with benefits.  It's pretty hard to borrow money when you put on the application "mobile sawing, self employed" under occupation.  Health insurance can make self-employment almost impossible.

There is no such thing as paid vacation, holidays, sick days, weekends, paid overtime, etc.

[beenthere]

Having a mill and wanting to saw is only one leg holding up the table. 

You also need some related background to start to understand how to make product on the mill.  From that you'll need to do a lot of studying and practice.   After we'd got our first mill, one brother-in-law confided that another brother-in-law was at a loss as to why we got a sawmill – after all,  I don't know anything about them.  While yes, I'd never sawn on a bandmill,  I had three uncles that ran circle mills and my dad had logged some to a lot most of his life and all of my life.  So I had a lot of exposure.  I had helped build a couple of houses by the time I was 20 years old so I knew a 2x4 from a 1x12.....

Very true, and you had Mary.

[cypresskayaksllc]

If you enjoy it then profit is easier to come by.

I must really hate it. :D

I like what bibbyman said "You'll need to be an entrepreneur.  You'll need to know or learn how to promote your business"
Saw jobs might come to you in some areas, not in mine. Ive been advertising low budget where ever I can think of for the past year (yard signs, cards, demonstrations, newspaper ads...) and I dont get as many jobs as Id like. But I think Im learning to be a better entrepreneur. My business has been increasing since I got the mill. But not as profitable as Id like to be.

[tcsmpsi]

If you enjoy it then profit is easier to come by.

A profit here, and/or a profit there, does not make a business profitable.  Actually, as I have seen many times, 'enjoying it' leads as much to delusion of profit.

As bibby mentions, things happen.  Expensive things happen.  And, sometimes, nothing is happening.  A few days of that, and we forego cornbread with the beans, hoping we don't have to forego beans in the water.

But then, what is Life without challenge?     :D

[Overlength]

Will have to plan on keeping day job, but can pay for nice hydro mill over time as you develop buisness. Would buy good used equipment, and you've already made a bunch of money. I bought good manual mill, but never planned on custom production cutting. Just cut high grade logs to sell wood. I'm 53 and it keeps me to good shape doing it part time. Couldn't image hand turning large logs and off loading slabs every day for high production on manual. Would get hydro. I would love to have a much larger sawmill one day. I think. Get into the 20,000 bf a day range.

[038magnum]

I want to work by myself most of the time. Not employ any help (off bearers) if possible.
The ones out there that are portable isn't that part of the deal when sawing for a customer. They provide the off bearers. If not than you charge extra. Right?

[shortlogger]

 everyone that I know that saws for the public charges a flat rate and if the customer wants to buck slabs and help stack thats just a bonus for the sawyer

[Magicman]

I just finished my 10th year of sawing and have never provided an off bearer.  That is my customer's responsibility.  If I hired and paid them then I would be the employer and I am not getting into the issues involved with taxes, insurance, liability, etc.

[MHineman]

I just finished my 10th year of sawing and have never provided an off bearer.  That is my customer's responsibility.  If I hired and paid them then I would be the employer and I am not getting into the issues involved with taxes, insurance, liability, etc.

I do the same.  So far everyone has always helped off bear without me ever telling them.
  I do tell them they need to be there when I'm sawing the log as there are questions about how to cut it to get what they want most of the time.

[038magnum]

That is the way I want to do it also.

[Jim H]

I just charge $60/hour whether the customer has help or not. If they provide labor and/or equipment it speeds up the job and saves them money. If they can't or don't want to help I do it by myself, it just cost more. I make more proffit on the jobs where I do everything, since the mill isn't using gas or blades while I move logs, but the work is more demanding. I might have different requirements for help 10-15 years from now. +1 on not becoming an employer.

[FeltzE]

This is the first year we are setting different rates,
- solid stacked-
- Stickered stacked -
- with help -
- without help -

And it wasn't my idea.

[tcsmpsi]

If you want to hire 'help', buy/build equipment.  In the end, it is more dependable, takes instruction better, produces more equitable relationship, and has a more straightforward tax approach.   ;D

I was building/remodeling/cabinet business for about 20 yrs, and, about 20 yrs ago, I began phasing out of that into the shop in town, that I still operate.  When I bought the property that the homestead/mill/etc. (previous homestead was knowingly and intentionally given to the lady of my divorce) is now on back in the early 80's, it was about 5 yrs growth of plantation, save for the old growth along the "natural watersheds".  Hurricane Katrina cinched the timing/deal for the sawmill.  As with any significant purchase, I always factor in the business aspect, and if I can't, I usually find I don't need it.

Looking ahead, I could see the definate indicators of troubled times looming, and my particular primary business at the shop taking a different path.  The last 5 yrs have shown a notable decrease in over the counter sales of firearms/accessories in this small town (about 6,000).  Internet sales of such products have booned.  Fundamentally, I am one person, taking care of many different things, and without capital enough to make a definitive approach to those internet sales. 

I had planned to ease woodworking more back in to the business, from the mill perspective/approach to finished products retailed from the shop in town.  Though it is and has been a concentrated effort, it is coming together.  Many setbacks of these last 4-5 yrs (economy, family, etc.) have constrained that process.   The plan is to convert the classroom to showroom, which will require another classroom which I have yet to build, but do, now, have the lumber milled for its production on the homestead.   Meanwhile, the septic system I put in about 25 yrs ago needs reworking and enlarged to accomodate all those heavy bladdered students...oh, and others (myself included).   :D

And, that's where I am today, a bunch of dug up root rich ground, new septic tank hole, all having seen about 10 inches of rain since I opened it all up a few days ago.   :D  So, certainly, I get to redo most of that...in my 'off' time, which is not really so, as it is all part of the business.   ;D

I work much more than not.   :D

[pnyberg]

I just charge $60/hour whether the customer has help or not. If they provide labor and/or equipment it speeds up the job and saves them money. If they can't or don't want to help I do it by myself, it just cost more.

This is my approach as well (even the same rate!).  This works out OK in most cases, but there was one instance where the customer provided no help, and wanted thick slabs.  Oof.  I need to learn to ask more questions.

--Peter